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  1. #1
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    Manage CPC by hand? Or Budget-Optimize?
    Which is better- managing clicks by hand or letting budget optimizer do it for you and why?

  2. #2
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    Once you reach say 50,000 keywords in multiple campaigns and/or $5,000 in spend per month in multiple campaigns across the 3 top platforms it's best to begin using some tool to manage your PPC.

    Mr. Mackin

  3. #3
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Mackin, you are of course, right as usual. But I think he's asking a more basic question about the AdWords setting that lets you choose between Manual Bidding or Budget Optimizer...

    Don't use the Budget Optimizer. Why? Cuz it's not focused on ROI, but instead, on spending your entire budget.

  4. #4
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    ahhhhhhhhhhhh
    ty

  5. #5
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    I like managing my Overture account that way - because I really feel like I can tell what is going on. I can say - wow, so-and-so is bidding this much and I need to be in front of them so Ill up it to 15 cents type of thing.

    Maybe Budget Optimizer is why my campaigns are getting such shat returns on Google. I will turn one of them off and try doing it by hand a bit. Hmmmm...

    Im finding that doing these by hands it tedious and I feel like I am shooting in the dark - I have no fricken idea what a "good" price for any of these is...I suppose yahoo does have its merits...

  6. #6
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    Merchants have a distinct advantage over affiliates in that they control the cart or form.

    If they spend over $50,000 per month or are with an agency that spends that much they can afford management services that allow them to track SET Profit or ROI objectives across all 3 PPC platforms and to move money back and forth as needed.

  7. #7
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    Services as in...3rd party tools / applications which do this for me? Any examples? Are these things like plug-ins to AdWords?

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  9. #9
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    Any recommendations for what software to use? Crowd favorites?

  10. #10
    Member offerfind's Avatar
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    Anyone seen or heard of AdGooRoo (www.adgooroo.com)? Feedback / opinions?

  11. #11
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    www.gotoast.com <-- used to use these guys some time back, was well worth it at the time.

    Using Google's budget manager is like giving your wife your credit card and saying "make sure you don't come back with any money left".

    The real question though is... how much longer till my profile doesn't say 'newbie' and I can actually go read these PM's I'm being sent?
    [B]Samboya, LLC.[/B]
    The Finest Teas on Earth
    _____________________________________________________________________
    Earn 25% commissions by referring discriminating tea drinkers to Samboya-Tea.com.

    Find our program [URL=http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=5379]here[/URL] .

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  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    The software tool you need most is between your ears.

    The tools you're looking for, don't make you smarter, just more efficient at running in the direction you think you're aiming for. Later, if bulk (>50k keywords employing dynamic bidding strategies) absolutely requires a tool, look into it then.

    Otherwise, you're like a 8-year old in NFL shoulder pads on opening day... a tad smug, yet very unprepared and all set up to get hurt badly.

  13. #13
    Member IronChef253's Avatar
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    wayandr: You need to hit XXX I think...Start posting!

    NOTE:
    There are certain features of the board which can not be utilized (private messages, sigs, and viewing profiles are a few) until a certain post level is reached. Haiko has enabled this feature on the new boards as a board abuse protection measure. This gives new members the opportunity to learn how our community operates and what is allowed here at ABW.

    Please DO NOT post what you think is the specific number of posts required to gain access to certain board features. All this accomplishes is a potential rash of meaningless posts to gain access to the features and negates the intent of the restriction. Please feel free to inform new members that they will gain access when a certain post level is reached, just not the actual number. That number is being changed periodically by Haiko anyway.
    Last edited by Merchant Consultant Team; August 28th, 2006 at 04:43 PM.

  14. #14
    Member karomesis's Avatar
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    budget manager seems almost like another cruel joke by g**gle.

    here are a couple of links to help you in your quest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Markov_model
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_inference
    http://www.agena.co.uk/

    I think implementing something extremely sophisticated has it's merits, including almost complete automation after a certain point.

    I have a freind who is a systems engineer, and the more you can involve science in your approach to PPC the better off you'll be.

    If you're ROI or ROIT will be dramatically affected by a change to semi automation then I'd say go for it. But if you have the time, and profit will remain unaffected, then I'd stick to the by hand method for now.

  15. #15
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    3rd party tools
    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    Services as in...3rd party tools / applications which do this for me? Any examples? Are these things like plug-ins to AdWords?
    [NOTE: I work at Efficient Frontier, one of the 3rd party keyword mgmt firms, so my opinions may well be 'tainted'. That said, I'll try to be objective.]

    IronChef,

    There are a number of self-service keyword mgmt systems out there:

    Efficient Frontier's Express product
    AtlasOnePoint (formerly GoToast)
    KeywordMax

    One of the most important considerations, IMO, is whether or not a 3rd party system is capable of modeling traffic and conversions in Google's very opaque environment. Most keyword mgmt systems were built with Yahoo's transparent marketplace in mind, but as you know, AdWords is opaque and YSM is going that way with Panama in Q4/Q1.

    Second - and again, IMO - a good tool should be much more than just an administrative interface through which *you* must still do tons of work manually updating keyword-level bids. There are dozens of firms offering that, and I expect the SE's themselves will soon offer the equivalent for free. I think that if a tool is to add much value to you, though, it has to be able to take your high-level business goal and run with it, meaning it can take all your historical and actual impression/click/cost/conversion data and continually figure out and implement the right set of bids or max CPC's to best hit your particular business goal.

    -Shorebreak

  16. #16
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronChef253
    Any recommendations for what software to use? Crowd favorites?
    GoToast.com (their software kicks)
    then the name changed to atlas onepoint
    then it changed to atlas search

    gotoast.com > still works and if you spend like 20,000>, you need the prog

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Don't use the Budget Optimizer. Why? Cuz it's not focused on ROI, but instead, on spending your entire budget.
    I remember hearing this advice from a very wise man in Chicago once

    Since passing it along to our in-house marketing guys, our ROI has gone up enough to notice, that is for sure!
    Matt McWilliams
    Call Me At: (317) 825-8826 | Follow Me On Twitter: @MattMcWilliams2 | Connect With Me On LinkedIn

  18. #18
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    B.O. stinks.

    :-)

  19. #19
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    B.O. stinks.

    :-)
    Nice. I am suddenly reminded of that Seinfeld episode...
    Matt McWilliams
    Call Me At: (317) 825-8826 | Follow Me On Twitter: @MattMcWilliams2 | Connect With Me On LinkedIn

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