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  1. #1
    Yup, Sure ... now let me check ... Cagles Mill's Avatar
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    Sportingbet arrest sparks fears of wider crackdown
    I know there have been discussions on the board concerning the legality of gambling sites, but rather than revive one or another old thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

    Anyway... if you have any gambling links and live in the US, you may be interested in this article: Sportingbet arrest sparks fears of wider crackdown

    LONDON (Reuters) - Online bookmaker Sportingbet said its chairman faced charges in the United States for providing "gambling by computer," sparking fears no executive in the $12-billion-a-year industry was safe from prosecution.
    Rick M.
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  2. #2
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    I'm sure they will start cracking down more on this too - I've stayed away from this kind of site because of the risks that seemed to be associated with them.
    Heidi
    "Happy are those who dream dreams and are willing to pay the price to make them come true"

  3. #3
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    Yeah, it has been dicey for a bit. The day they opened a foreign bank account for me and sent me my atm card as the way to pick up my payments was the day i thought... hmm this is starting to get risky. Too bad, it was easy money.

  4. #4
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    I suspect that Bodawg will be next. That guy is way to high profile and is thumbing his nose at US authorities. Anyone want to wager on it? hahaha..These sites ought to have a line on who is going to be arrested next. Now that would be amusing...

  5. #5

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    Yea, I agree. Online casinos and Indian Casinos I tend to stay away from altogether. At least in Vegas I know the casinos are fairly honest due to the power of the Nevada Gaming commission (which I have seen in action first hand) and that things are not rigged too far in their favor. Though all games are in the favor of the house the percentage is important and from my experience the Indian Casinos and Online casinos have no controlling body to insure they are not TOO far in their favor.

  6. #6
    I like traffic lights
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    It's a bit weird really.

    It's like the site owners have to vet everyone who buys their product and has to keep up with the law for every country they have custoemrs from.

    It'd be a bummer if Mike sold a pair of yellow suspenders to some 45 y.o. guy in Australia and then while going on holiday there years later was jailed on entry because he didn't know it was illegal to sell yellow suspenders to anyone under 50 in Australia.

  7. #7
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbert

    It'd be a bummer if Mike sold a pair of yellow suspenders to some 45 y.o. guy in Australia and then while going on holiday there years later was jailed on entry because he didn't know it was illegal to sell yellow suspenders to anyone under 50 in Australia.
    It SHOULD be illegal to sell any color suspenders to anyone under 95 in any country.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  8. #8
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    This probably explains the phone call I got on Friday from an investment banker whose prospective client had decided to sell his "affiliate site" that drives significant traffic (and profit) to gambling sites.

    He wanted to know if I could help him identify prospective buyers; my quick conclusion was that the business was mostly a paid-PPC-search operation, with the "web site" being mostly irrelevant -- ultimately I thought the only asset to be sold was the guy's "know-how" on doing successful PPC bidding in this space (spending $750K to drive $1 million in revenue), and perhaps his "know-how" in identifying which gambling sites would actually pay off and not default on large payment obligations (a fatal risk when campaign ROI is so low).

    I haven't ever done any work in this space -- as a lawyer, I decided back in 1995-96 that there was simply no legal way that an American can participate in the online gambling business (though that was certainly never my legal specialty, and some other very smart lawyers have disagreed and advised some other Americans about participating in the online gambling space).

    However, over the past 10 years, I've talked to webmasters and others who have sought to profit from driving traffic to gambling sites, and inevitably they experience some very painful defaults -- just as we all suffered in the early days of internet advertising, when perhaps 2 out of 3 companies collapsed and defaulted.

    Ultimately, the banker verified that he had the same concerns that I did, and that he would probably choose not to work with this prospective client (both because the likelihood of a successful sale was low, and because his company would probably not agree to participate in a transaction involving a company involved even peripherally in the online gambling business).

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Color suspenders are illegal? :(
    Rex & Drew

    I guess I have contraban in my closet!! I just returned from a mountain hunt and used suspenders to hold up my gear laden pants!!

    Is online gambling as serious an offense as wearing suspenders? BTW, do suspenders sell well online? I might put mine up on eBay...
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  10. #10
    I like traffic lights
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    I just find it weird that they're chasing the overseas providers rather than the actual gamblers.

    Teens travel to Mexico every year to take advantage of the lower drinking age. Do those teens get arrested when they get back to the USA for breaking US law in a foreign country? Do the owners of the establishments providing the alcohol to U.S. minors get arrested when they go to the USA on holiday?

    Some countries, I believe, extend certain laws to citizens travelling in foreign countries. IIRC some countries with high sexual consent ages (say 18) forbid their citizens from travelling to countries with lower ages (say 16) in order to skirt the law.

  11. #11
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx

    BTW, do suspenders sell well online? I might put mine up on eBay...
    According to Mike (Ecomcity) suspenders sell like crazy online. If he stumbles in here, he'll back me up, I'm sure. :-)

    Meanwhile, IMHO, if a guy wants to get laid, he shouldn't wear suspenders.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbert
    I just find it weird that they're chasing the overseas providers rather than the actual gamblers. // Teens travel to Mexico every year to take advantage of the lower drinking age. Do those teens get arrested when they get back to the USA for breaking US law in a foreign country? Do the owners of the establishments providing the alcohol to U.S. minors get arrested when they go to the USA on holiday? // Some countries, I believe, extend certain laws to citizens travelling in foreign countries. IIRC some countries with high sexual consent ages (say 18) forbid their citizens from travelling to countries with lower ages (say 16) in order to skirt the law.
    To the best of my knowledge, it is not illegal for a US citizen (adult or minor) to travel to another country and engage in an activity which is illegal in the United States, such as gambling, drinking, or having sex. (It may be illegal for an adult to transport a minor across state lines with the purpose of having sex that would be unlawful in the minor's own state -- but it's the "transportation" that is the crime.)

    I'm sure there are some activities that are illegal -- for example, I'm pretty sure that if a US citizen went to Amsterdam and "legally" taped himself having "legal" sex with a 16-year-old, it would still be illegal under US child-pornography laws to possess or sell that video in the US, and it might also be illegal for a US citizen to sell it anywhere.

    It is definitely illegal (under US law) for someone to solicit US citizens to break the law -- for example, by buying advertising on US web sites urging US residents to engage in illegal online gambling from the US.

    Why don't they go after the gamblers? Because there are millions of gamblers, and there are only a few dozen "meaningful" online gambling sites attracting most of those gamblers. Shutting down one or two dozen of the top online-gambling sites would probably reduce overall online gambling by US residents by 10% or 20% (at least temporarily). Arresting and prosecuting two dozen or two hundred gamblers would have no measurable effect.

    Gambling is an addiction, and generally we try not to punish addicts, but instead find ways to treat them and protect them. That's why we prosecute people who illegally profit from addiction.

    While I agree that there is a lot of hypocrisy in US gambling laws (which allow states to profit from gambling), we do live in a society that should be governed by the rule of law. (I say "should be" because a number of our top federal officials don't seem to agree, but that's another discussion thread.)

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    Meanwhile, IMHO, if a guy wants to get laid, he shouldn't wear suspenders.
    Oh man..I guess I should go throw my collection of hot pink and fish-adorned suspenders out. Really thought those might turn the ladies my way...

    btw...really really surprised Mike hasn't plugged his site by now...

  14. #14
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    Oh man..I guess I should go throw my collection of hot pink and fish-adorned suspenders out. Really thought those might turn the ladies my way...

    btw...really really surprised Mike hasn't plugged his site by now...
    In the dumpster MB! LOL - Do yourself a favor.

    Yeah, I'm surprised Mike hasn't responded yet, too. I'll PM him so he can get a legit plug in.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  15. #15
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch
    To the best of my knowledge, it is not illegal for a US citizen (adult or minor) to travel to another country and engage in an activity which is illegal in the United States, such as gambling, drinking, or having sex. (It may be illegal for an adult to transport a minor across state lines with the purpose of having sex that would be unlawful in the minor's own state -- but it's the "transportation" that is the crime.)

    I'm sure there are some activities that are illegal -- for example, I'm pretty sure that if a US citizen went to Amsterdam and "legally" taped himself having "legal" sex with a 16-year-old, it would still be illegal under US child-pornography laws to possess or sell that video in the US, and it might also be illegal for a US citizen to sell it anywhere.

    It is definitely illegal (under US law) for someone to solicit US citizens to break the law -- for example, by buying advertising on US web sites urging US residents to engage in illegal online gambling from the US.

    Why don't they go after the gamblers? Because there are millions of gamblers, and there are only a few dozen "meaningful" online gambling sites attracting most of those gamblers. Shutting down one or two dozen of the top online-gambling sites would probably reduce overall online gambling by US residents by 10% or 20% (at least temporarily). Arresting and prosecuting two dozen or two hundred gamblers would have no measurable effect.

    Gambling is an addiction, and generally we try not to punish addicts, but instead find ways to treat them and protect them. That's why we prosecute people who illegally profit from addiction.

    While I agree that there is a lot of hypocrisy in US gambling laws (which allow states to profit from gambling), we do live in a society that should be governed by the rule of law. (I say "should be" because a number of our top federal officials don't seem to agree, but that's another discussion thread.)
    It sure is nice to have a lawyer among us.

    Thanks for your knowledgeable input Mark!

    I'd love to read your take on the Net Enforcers issue:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=71106
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx
    Rex & Drew

    I guess I have contraban in my closet!! I just returned from a mountain hunt and used suspenders to hold up my gear laden pants!!

    Is online gambling as serious an offense as wearing suspenders? BTW, do suspenders sell well online? I might put mine up on eBay...
    My ecommerce client owns the internet for suspender sales. Went from $200K in sales in 1997 to over 3.4 million in 2005. So I'd hardly say that niche market is dead. Even the Harley Bikers buy them to beautify America. Who wants to see a hairy butt crack on an expensive Harley flying down a highway near you... Learn your marketplace and know your product. What about the 10 million colostomy bag patients who can't wear belts... I'll tap them this year. Untapped markets for their product in places like Italy & Europe or the Latino markets.

    AmeritrustRX you need to submit a photo and try and win a contest prize.. http://www.sloops.com/contest.htm so you can sell your celeb suspenders on eBay at a higher price... LOL.

    Get inventive and creative as my client has another new Patent being introduced in October... not my idea which I was going to promote in some local tittie bars as a hot new look!



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  17. #17
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    Even the Harley Bikers buy them to beautify America. Who wants to see a hairy butt crack on an expensive Harley flying down a highway near you...
    hehe. I don't think that's what "wider crackdown" in the thread title is referring to, but here's to a more beautiful America.

  18. #18
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    Oh man..I guess I should go throw my collection of hot pink and fish-adorned suspenders out. Really thought those might turn the ladies my way...
    Gee....kind of turns me on just thinking about it.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  19. #19
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    idea which I was going to promote in some local tittie bars as a hot new look!
    Pasties with built-in suspenders? What will they think of next?!?!
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  20. #20
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    Pasties with built-in suspenders? What will they think of next?!?!
    Well, did you hear about the elderly lady who had to get reconstructive breast surgery because she incurred a gunshot wound to her knee?

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