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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    All,

    After some hesitation and much trepidation, I downloaded the new version of the buyersport/Morpheus offering today.

    It still has a BHO but it "works" differently now!

    I was at Mike's site and clicking (sorry to ruin your EPC Mike ... it was for a good cause [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]) Now please keep in mind that I also have Ebates installed on my machine (for separate review), it is hysterical to see this stuff happening (I'll elaborate on this later).

    When I installed the "new Morpheus" It has three options as well all know with the cash back alerts. and in the system try I have the little Buyersport coin ...


    When I clicked on some of mikes links it showed the ...

    which means ...
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Morpheus Shopping Club icon flashes a red circle when you have navigated to a participating merchant by way of another website's advertisement. In order to support the service you used to navigate to this merchant, we encourage you to continue with any intended purchases. If you are concerned about receiving your Morpheus cash rewards, please visit the Morpheus Shopping Club and use the provided link for your navigation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    and on other links I got ...


    ...as you can also see on Mike's Ashford link ... http://www.abestweb.com/BFS/ashford.jpg

    Which contradicts the built in icon indicator that the end user was supposed to click and decide what they were going to do, if they were smart enough to so. The extra necessary cognitive actions of the consumer were included to protect our commissions, but instead I got the alert pop up box about six times in about an hour and the default is set to "Allways enable".

    When I clicked on some of the direct links (via buyersport.com) I did see the ...


    ... so that was good, I guess, but when I clicked on an ebags link on Mikes site ... I got the following ...
    http://www.abestweb.com/BFS/ebates.jpg

    You'll see that as an ebates user, I got redirected to the ebates framed page and if you notice the coin in the system tray is spinning. So my question is who would get the sale? Ebates or Buyersport? Prior to loading the ebates page it locked up for a second or two and and the coin WAS INDEED spinning as the ebags pop up showed, so I humbly think we need to investigate how the BHO actually deciphers an eligible link, and what safe guards affiliates have that it is in compliance.

    It looks to me that the battles will be between the rebate affiliates and Buyersport, as just about every time I surf to a participating merchant I get stalling pop ups and multiple cookie overwrites. My take on it ... I think the customer will get so flustered that they will uninstall both of them, more so when they call to get their rebates [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] It is soo pathetic looking that it is funny!

    When I downloaded the program there were 91,391,495 total downloads, my questions are when will the Morpheus 2.0 come out so that the "new" BHO can overwrite the old one and what will Buyersport/Morpheus do to ensure that as many as possible users download the "fix" (which I still think needs work!)

    Haiko
    PS. The original mbho.dll file is overwritten by v2.0 which according to the Versign Digital Certificate had a timestamp of May 10, 2002 9:29:53 AM

    [formatting]

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  2. #2
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    I still don't like it. The user still get's to decide who gets the comission, based on my efforts.

    When is my website truely mine?

  3. #3
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is not a good analogy for what's happening. A more accurate parallel would be another restaurant tampering with your cash register so that money from *your* sales of mozzarella sticks to *your* customers ended up in their bank account. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    We can do it ourselves - install detect.js on pages where we have links to Buyersport Merchants. In the message and redirect something like: "We are sorry, but due to technical difficulties (or malicious code or whatever) you cannot be permitted to access this page until you download the following update to your Morpheus software" then direct them to the fix.

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I have spoken to a few programmers for the online (non download) MorphBuster(TM) and it technically can be done, I have to understand the legal ramifications before it would be released.

    Haiko

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Haiko, great work as always. I'm confused a little bit though. Maybe you can clear it up for me.

    The way I read it is that the 3 choices that a visitor has is

    1) click the first box will will keep The Morpheus Shopping Club links for all the sites they visit.

    2) Click the second box which would redirect to the Morpheus Link for just this one time and most likely ask them again the next time they click on a different merchant link again.

    3) Click on the Disable any available Rewards for this time only which will allow us to receive the sale and not Morpheus just this time.

    What is missing IMO is

    4) Click on this box which says " I am not interested in Morpheus Shopping Rewards - Please do not show this box again" Which is a total opt out for the consumer and at which point Morpheus should leave the consumer alone.

    I agree with you on the point that after awhile it will probably bug the person too much with the box popping up.

    Did you try it with the 3rd box clicked???

  6. #6
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    Haiko - if it is a website or page on our own sites that people visit to clean up their computers *cognitively* - as in "click here to visit our Parasiteware Scan" - the same legal logic applies that Todd and the others used to justify their support for Buyersport -

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The bottom line is, the user has to opt-in <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  7. #7
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    Anything you do that disrupts Morpheus has negative legal ramifications.

    Just keep collecting data on how they are screwing people. Any fix is not going to make much difference one way or another in thenext 30 days.

    Have patience - once the legal stuff from our side beigns, then do this:

    Form a non-profit corporation to attack Morpheus with the fix. Make it be a PUBLIC SERVICE deal. Explain what and why in the simplest terms possible - do not refer to affiliates getting screwed but to Morpheus is capable of hijacking your life and could and is forcing your favorite sites out of business.

    Then let Morpheus attack the .org. if they are so inclined.

    Let them waste their time and energy on this
    while we all nail them in court.

  8. #8
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    I agree with CanFree. These scumbags can still use my website as a platform to compete with me to get credit for sales. That stinks. My website should be exclusively for my use and that of my visitors.

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thanks for the click Haiko if I'm the Mike you referred to. Everyone notice that the Morpheus strategy is to get any of their 91 million users to "accept" the default ..always enable offers from all sites.. ONE TIME and from there on out those alert screens will disappear and become buried forever within the O/S registry and updated thru the trojan horse backdoor.

    Regardless of what they told Haiko they still are hell bent on stealing affiliate commissions and targeted traffic. Interest note is the internal warfare with competing BHO's by eBates- Gator- ShopNow ect etc.. Is the next step for Morpheus to secretly remove/block all competitors adware offerings?? Me thinks so as they interfer with their money machine. This ranting will go on behind closed doors at the affiliate networks with the thieves & parasites all wanting the others to be barred from the networks "red carpet" autoload program.

    Morpheus and Kazaa and the other P2P wanks or Duperaffiliates are not beyond threatening DOS attacks to bring the networks back in line. Whoo be to those networks who withhold payments or merchants who are late.

    Let's distance ourselves from these advertising scumlords by creating a drive-thru BHO removal HD tuneup site as mentioned in the above thread. We therefore can CLEAN our endusers systems for a small fee one customer at a time...and go about our business. Free analysis and $9.95 for a complete wash and buff job. Add the consumer advertising ranting forum (like F**kecompany.com) to this site and we are in business.

  10. #10
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    Is ebates aware this is happening, does anyone know?

    While I don't exactly class them among the good guys, sometimes the enemy of my enemy can be my friend ...

  11. #11
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    "Barnacle Bill's Free Computer Cleanup Emporium!

    "Click here if you want your computer automatically cleaned of parasitic software!

    (Note this will remove spyware, trojans, and programs capable of causing damage to those sites that you visit. You should also notice a performance improvement.

    Don't forget to check in once a month for you free monthly cleanup! Click here to tell all your friends about Barnacle Bills!
    "

    Etc.

    I'm really not that good on copy. But you get the idea.


    I

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

  12. #12
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    Fred,

    Court only means "headache" and "fear" to most of the users on this board. I assure you that none of the others but you and I will file anything against anyone. So I'd stop pushing that any further.

    Morph Fix:

    What are they exactly fixing? the way they steal? I'd like to give a little more obscenity to eaglefire here.... (just imagine I said it, eaglefire)

    A criminal can not be fixed, it must be punished.

    As long as Scumware sits on 100M desktops running freely, they will "fix" their software if *anybody* tampers with it by any means. (Run the scumware, it'll go update its files without user noticing anything)

    If WE do not cut the ways they steal from US, they will steal from US.

    Legal ramification is: we are on self defense and killed the MF. We can go home and enjoy our lives.

    -BluesX

  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What are they exactly fixing? the way they steal? I'd like to give a little more obscenity to eaglefire here.... (just imagine I said it, eaglefire)

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is ebates aware this is happening, does anyone know?
    While I don't exactly class them among the good guys, sometimes the enemy of my enemy can be my friend ...
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Might not hurt to clue them in ... would love to see those two tangle with each other [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Canfree,
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The user still get's to decide who gets the comission, based on my efforts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    You can't argue that the consumer decides ... it's their money, they should be allowed to! NO?
    -----------------
    Gameboy,
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>4) Click on this box which says " I am not interested in Morpheus Shopping Rewards - Please do not show this box again" Which is a total opt out for the consumer and at which point Morpheus should leave the consumer alone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I agree 100%! What I like about Limewire ( I reviewed them) is that they specifically launch a pop up that says click here to support limewire, no competitor links no coupons no BS, if the end user wants to support them they buy through their link, the click the button, if not they click X and at any time they can EASILY change their settings which includes leave me alone.
    -----------------
    Fred,
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Let them waste their time and energy on this while we all nail them in court.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Fred, they are really mucking themselves up all alone ... as Chryslerbuilding said ... lets look at them in 3 months ... maybe they'll go public but ... they'll be a dotbomb for sure!
    -----------------
    Mike,
    Yep it was your site.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by creating a drive-thru BHO removal HD tuneup site as mentioned in the above thread. We therefore can CLEAN our endusers systems for a small fee one customer at a time...and go about our business. Free analysis and $9.95 for a complete wash and buff job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I am all for it!
    -----------------
    Elizabeth,

    I have a few screenshots and screencam videos that I will be mailing [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
    -----------------
    BluesX,
    They are "Fixing" the foolery and link hijacking alledgedly, however, what was told to me is not in place, it was supposed to be a real PITA for the end user.

    Haiko

  16. #16
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    Haiko,

    >You can't argue that the consumer decides ... it's their money, they should be allowed to! NO?

    On the face of it, that seems quite sensible. Its their money.

    But the end user is the 'unknowing' half of a criminal conspiracy. They're using software designed to damage the code on my site. They do not have consent to be on my site if they are going to be using software capable of doing that. Thats what my copyright notice is for.

    They can go damage someone elses code and take their money with them. As far as I am concerned they are tresspassing and I will defend my property.

    I

  17. #17
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They can go damage someone elses code and take their money with them. As far as I am concerned they are tresspassing and I will defend my property.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    "Your system is running malicious code that will cause damage to this site - Access Denied".

    But then, I refuse to list links to merchants dealing with Buyersport in the first place.

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I,

    What I meant were the "Cognitive" users who actually knew how to jump thru the hoops to get the rebate.

    Unkowing end users should be prompted to opt out of the parasites ... lets make that happen ... to defend our properties!

    Haiko

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    If I wasn't so busy doing 3 new sites for cleints I'd have pulled all those Buyersport merchants off my site and put up links to the good guys. As to fueding between the DuperAffiliates like Morpheus and Gator or eBates...

    "Might not hurt to clue them in ... would love to see those two tangle with each other"

    that is a can of worms Linkshare BeFree and CJ opened up ...not us. If the results gets those affiliate management groups who raked in commissions for recruiting merchants fired..part of our job is complete.

  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I wasn't so busy doing 3 new sites for cleints I'd have pulled all those Buyersport merchants off my site and put up links to the good guys. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike - you might as well. Nothing is going to really solve this until a script can be embedded in the affiliate's website itself to disable the redirection process *if* such a script is technically implementable. Since such a script wouldn't totally "take out" the BHO, simply protect the original link and prevent the re-direct, there would not be legal ramifications.

    Downloadable applications, fixes, plugins, even "drive-in" enticements etc, are only a partial and temporary solution because it is dependent on the user having to complete a task. If the application fails to catch on in popularity it isn't going to be effective, and someone with a larger advertising budget will come along that will write something that will "take out" the application's ability to prevent the stealing process.

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  21. #21
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    "Prompted to opt out of the parasites"

    Well, good luck Haiko, but I recall trying to prompt my dog into leaving my pizza alone!

    And I'd put my ex-dog's sense of ethics up against the Morpheus Crew's anyday.

    Eaglefire,
    "Your system is running malicious code that will cause damage to this site - Access Denied".

    Love it!

    >"But then, I refuse to list links to merchants dealing with Buyersport in the first place."

    I might have one of two I've forgotten about, but I'm not letting in anyone with Morpheus even installed (thanks David!) And if I knew how, I'd zap it from my servers so it could never damage anyones else's site again.


    I

  22. #22
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    @Icicle - between the 3 networks, I would say that most of those merchants I've no interest in anyway. There are a few exceptions, but I think Mike summed it up best when he said:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Talk about a list of non-performing wank merchants seeking EyeBalls ..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Consider this - so long as you allow Morpheus users to access your Buyersport merchants (if you still have any ) - you are putting money in their coffers. That money is the same money being used to hire the sneaky programmers and lawyers that are perpertrating this.

    If an affiliate wanted to go the trouble of some re-arranging on their site, they could have their Buyersport merchants' links on separate pages from the non-Buyersport merchants, then just block access to Morpheus users for those pages which have links to the offending merchants (since they won't make any money anyway). That is if you don't mind supporting those merchants.
    Pre-sell the "bad merchant" link pages with some great ad copy - "click here for the best deals on (whatever) that has ever been seen in the history of the Web!" so that the user *really* wants to get in to see those pages ... but of course if they've got that BHO ... they won't be able to. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  23. #23
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    This is also in response to the thread that Haiko locked about 2 seconds before I was going to post, but I don’t want to waste the time I spent in writing it.

    I’ve been away for a few days and you guys (and girls) have been really busy again. My 2 Penny addition follows.


    <Quote> Chez noir
    You have to cut it so it is black and white and simple to understand. That has been my one arguement all along, you cannot have a complex answer to the problem to educate people. Make it simple. If you come to this site with this spyware on, you are taking money from this site, so we will not let you in. Here is how you remove it.
    </Quote>

    <Quote> Cusimano
    Therefore, with respect to solving the parasiteware situation, the three main issues that will directly interest the end user are: (i) speed up their machine, (ii) remove pop-up ads, and (iii) help protect their online privacy.
    </Quote>

    <Quote> Cazzie
    I think using the detect.js script would be the best way to go for now. As a novice to all of this please don't jump all over me if I have mistated something. I only wish that I could contribute something that could help as I sit on the side lines and observe all that everyone else is doing. The only thing I can possibly do is donate cash to a fund if it is needed for legal fees, or programing fees.
    </Quote>

    <Quote> Cusimano
    It's important to think from the viewpoint of the user. We have to keep the concerns of the user in mind when bringing this issue to their attention.
    </Quote>


    I agree with Chez Noir and Cusimano. I feel the same as, and will join together with Cazzie to support a solution.

    The only difference I have with Chez is that I would like to inform the user that has spyware so that they can continue on my site and decide themselves if they want to remove it, but refuse the user who has a theftware program installed to stop them stealing my money. Call it my contribution to society.

    Although I find the Abestbrowser a good idea, I do not think that it is a solution because it relies on the user doing something proactive, and we all know that if there is ANY doubt, it wont happen.

    I think that the solution must be pro-active, and the only way to do this is at the source i.e. the site that is being visited, but I disagree that anyone should be interfering with anyone else’s system, or stealing (even back).

    I think that a combination of Andrew Glover's parasite.js javascript and Cusimano’s detect.js javascript would be an excelent solution. The reason is that Andrew’s script covers a multitude of sins and will allow you to give specific responses to specific “programs”, while Cusimano’s script, I can block the users from my site (if required).

    I also see that this will need to be continuously updated, so a long term project is a MUST. This is also why I would support this by paying an annual fee.

    I would use this on ALL my pages, including 404’s on all my sites, mall and content.

    My only concern is that when the list of parasitic and spy software get really long, it will degrade the speed of the download so much, that it will negate the point. So the script must be self checking i.e. if it has loaded and checked once, then it should stay silent for the rest of the visit no matter how many pages it loads from the rest of the site. The down side is that the (insert name her)ware could also detect this and circumnavigate it.

    I also agree that educating the user is a must, WHY are you blocking them from your site? They need to understand, so a well-formulated redirection page is necessary.

    I am like Cazzie, if I could I would do something about it, but missing the ability to program, the ability to pay to have someone program it or a site that has mass distribution capabilities I can only stand (or sit) here and ask, who should I support?

    <quote>
    Eaglefire
    "Your system is running malicious code that will cause damage to this site - Access Denied".
    </quote>

    But you need to tell the user Which software that is so they can remove it

    A bit long for two pence. But there you go! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Eaglefire
    "Your system is running malicious code that will cause damage to this site - Access Denied".


    But you need to tell the user Which software that is so they can remove it

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh - I definitely agree with you - I just didn't feel like typing the rest of it out and it will depend on what the site owner wants to say ( and if I know Icicle .... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

    In fact I agree with most of what you've said. But if I've got Buyersport merchants on my site, I do not want Morpheus BHO-enabled users to access those pages *at all*. I don't want to take the chance on whether they go download the fix. If they do, next time they'll be able to gain access.
    But until then, they don't get in. Period.

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  25. #25
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    >I don't want to take the chance on whether they go download the fix. If they do, next time they'll be able to gain access.
    But until then, they don't get in. Period.

    They will not come back to your site. Period. You lost your customers to Morpheus. That is called accepting defeat. Period.

    -BluesX

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