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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    I just did a check for one of my sites in Google 2. I am amazed at the sheet that just keeps going on. Is it time to stop using Pay Per Clicks. The searchfeeds are just killing me and it keeps getting worse. Affiliates just use our sites to their advantage. Below is what I am talking about.

    I did a search for my site. What I came up with are sites that have the feeds on them but are really only using them to sell their merchants. <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon9.gif> I think the days of PPC are done. My site is fed through 7search for the example below. I have several other sites that is the same way. They list the feed on a page that is targeted to their products and the search engines pick up our sites and when a search is done their site comes up. My site is the second one. The rest all feed off om mine.

    http://www2.google.com/search?q=inksto res&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&filter=0

  2. #2
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    >The searchfeeds are just killing me and it keeps getting worse.

    I dont understand your post :confused:

    you have second place on google for "inkstores", thats good isnt it?

    what am I missing? Are you just upset because those other sites are using your listing as content?

    How are the searchfeeds are just killing you?

    BTW: I agree that there are no good ppc engines now, I have accounts with all of the main ppc's but no worthwhile ROI anymore.

  3. #3
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The largest PPC keyword SE is Overture and thta is a Bill Gross (IdeaLabs) incubated venture who also funds CJ. All affiliate enabled merchants use Overture and the other lesser quality PPC's. All merchants on Morpheus- ShopNow/Whenu.com- Gator lists have affiliate managers who report to their advertising department and only see the individual affiliate as a minor player in their traffic schemes. None of these merchants want keyword bidding pressure coming from the minor affiliate base since traffic from PPC search parallels volumes from affiliate links.

    These same merchants could care less if they regulate the normal affiliate to just static page links. Many PPC's like Looksmart just go on the darkside since they can't compete with Overture or attract enough paid listings and generate sufficient pages views for CPM Ads. For the price of a 60.00 script any scumbag can start up a template PPC service and 1000 have done just that! Notice all those posts here by one of those 60.00 sites seeking 1 cent PPC traffic.

    Moral of the story is anywhere the darkside of IdeaLabs rears it's ugly head and the Ad Brokers and affiliate merchant aggregrators have clout those places get closed down to us to leverage. The parasites need us to feed off of as long as we're unaware of what their doing. Once they figure out how to do away with us without feeding off our pre-sell activities they will do just that...force the networks to close down individual affiliate accounts.

    My mail box got over 300 disguised virus attachments since the beginning of the month. Who is doing this? Why are they trying to slow me or any other ABW voice down except to buy more time to put the pieces together. BeFree is 100% silent and will sell their service to anyone regardless of their ethics. CJ has lots of commitment holes nwo we have seen their darkerside. Linkshare talks a mean lean new affiliate friendly spin yet automates the "superduper affiliates".

    The parasites/scumlords haven't targeted a specific network enabler nor has a major network gone completely darkside. It's easier to takeover PPC listings with Advertiser clout through their insider contacts at the Ad Brokers than to tackle 500,000 individual afiiliated webmasters. So their initial action is to negate our influence on traffic totals beyond our link codes prior to eliminating us from the mix.

    They now know they need more time or maybe ..just maybe.. they will decide they can't do without us since we are the best targeting tool in the bag. I know if I single out a honest merchant I can exceed their normal conversion ratio from my traffic if it's left alone. They do too. The only way they can get around my targeting is through MASS eyeball schemes so they love the "incent" parasite P2P's and rewards superdupers impression totals.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Mike, good post!

    Zade, what is bothering me started awhile ago with all the junk traffic I am now getting from ppc's. With the amnt of feeds that are available to anyone there has to be a ton of fraud going on.

    What bothers me about the above post is that I can just make a webpage with my merchants affiliate links, throw up some listings from ppc programs and take traffic away from all the other affiliates. The purpose of the sites that are listed in the example aren't about making money from the ppc's its about taking traffic away from the people that are listing them in the ppc. The above is just an example of a lot of searches that I done on my sites. Some I don't even come up and the others do. They all have the search feeds on their pages along with all their merchant links that are all related to the site that was searched for. All I am saying is it is getting to be a waste of money for me to continue using the ppc's. It doesn't make sense to me. Sorry but I am having a hard time trying to explain my point. <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon36.gif>

    I'm better off just building pages like the ones in Google and joining 7searches or the others affiliate programs. I will get just as much traffic for free. Thats the point I am trying to make. It just doesn't seem right to me. :confused:

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: GameBoy ]

  5. #5
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    I think I understand, the only traffic we get from ppc's doesnt come from the ppc's but only from their affiliates and that traffic is trash, yes?

    When you said these feeds where killing you I thought you meant they where affecting your google rank so I did a link: on your site an google shows no links to your "ink stores" page. I then did a link: on my site and discovered the same thing!

    Then I did a link onsome of those sites that are listed for nearly all keywords (suzysez ect...) and those sites seem to be REALLY screwed up in google.

    Not so much killing us, more of a massacre.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Zade, yes and they have to be getting a ton of traffic to their sites because of all the links. So we get low targeted traffic while they get high targeted trafficPlus they get paid by us to send us their leftovers. <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon36.gif>

    To sum it up, they get to use our links which increases their listings in the engines. We pay them to get traffic to their sites so they can make sales and make money and if they don't get the sales they send them to us, rotflmao! <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon38.gif> <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon38.gif> Hmmm, kind of funny in a sick expensive way, lol!

    [ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: GameBoy ]

  7. #7
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    Actually, as opposed to a giant conspiracy theory, there is a more logical explination.

    They don't want to list pages just with affilaite links because it provides poor results to the surfer. Will a surfer continue to use Overture if a search on "office supplies" turns up 20 results that are nothing but the same CJ link?

    You guys worry too much about what's "fair" and on giant conspiracys against you. Business is not "fair" that's why it's called business. Overture does what it feels is best to acheive the end result of increasing shareholder wealth. Being "fair" doesn't come into play.

    If you advertise on Overture do you also make sure you advertise on Findwhat as to be "fair" to Findwhat? Or do you advertise on who brings you the best ROI?

  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    chryslerbldg

    Are you suggesting that overture doesn't need our money to build their wealth? The last time I looked at their site they wanted my business and yes I am an affiliate and yes 20 other people compete for the same link. This is only good news to overture because it raises the amount we are willing to pay to be on top. (you have me a little confused)

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You guys worry too much about what's "fair" and on giant conspiracys against you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Aren't you one of us? :confused:

    While on the subject of conspiracy theory I have to agree with you that it is just a part of business. At the same time all sorts of businesses go out every day. This is do to many factors with the most important being poor management and bad ethics. Screw me today and ask me for my business tomorrow ( I don't think so!)

  9. #9
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    Heyder,

    As I stated: They don't want to list pages just with affilaite links because it provides poor results to the surfer. Will a surfer continue to use Overture if a search on "office supplies" turns up 20 results that are nothing but the same CJ link?

    When you go into wal-mart to buy a can of shaveing cream you will find maybe 10 different brands on the shelves. Wal-mart carries the brands which make them the most money based on gross margin and sales volume.
    Makes perfect sence right?

    What this thread is *****ing about is that Wal-mart refuses to give "shelf space" to THE EXACT SAME STYLE Gillette shave cream as sold to them by 20 different Gilette distributors....because they should be "fair" to all the distributors.

    And maybe Overture doesn't need your money to be successful. There is nothing "unfair" or wrong with catering to 100 large cliets spending $50,000.00/month that 50,000 clients spending $100.00. And please spare me the "watch out for the little guy" stuff. They are a business. They are a profitable business with a $500,000,000.00 market cap. They actually are just the tiniest bit on the ball.

    If you don't like their policies....don't use them.

  10. #10
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    Oh dear, how sad, never mind [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Well unfortunately or you are right. They really don't need us smalltimers and it's looking like the merchants don't either. I believe within three years affiliate marketers will be almost non-existant. Those making the cut will prosper but the doors will be locked to anyone else.

  12. #12
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    Sorry for being thick, but I'm still not following the first message in this thread.

    But for gosh sakes 300 whole virus messages in a month, Mike? And you attribute this to some sort of conspiracy? Good googly-moogly, I just went through the morning mail and killed off 49 virus emails -- this is a guesstimate, but I think I'm up to about 100-125 per day. Who is after me?

    The way most of the new virii works, the more visitors you get to your web site (if you have your email on your web site), the more virii you will get -- they pick up your email from cached web pages on the infected persons' hard drive.

    As to Overture? I told them to KMA several months ago and haven't missed them for a minute.

  13. #13
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    I don't have anywhere near the spam problems that other people describe. I am open about my identity, and any human who wants to can make contact without too much difficulty, but I take precautions to protect my email addresses from the spam harvesters. Suggestion: don't post your email on your website, at least not in a plain mailto: link. Put it in a graphic, use a contact form, hide it in a javascript, tweak it so humans can use it but spam spiders are unlikely to spot it .. e.g. substitute the @ with (at) and explain why you're doing that ... people understand the wisdom of protecting your address from spam spiders.

    Another rampart to guard is the Identity information in your browser settings. It's the one place in my cyber-life where I include false information. If I visit a site that harvests email addresses from their visitors' browsers, they'll get some cartoon character's name, along with a throwaway Hotmail address. That account is set to delete any message that comes in (except for those from Hotmail itself) because no legitimate correspondent would even know about that address.

    Paranoid and proud of it,

    Elisabeth Archambault

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Mr ChryslerBuilding pretty much sums up the network and merchant attitude to the small website owners. It is wrong. They want to control e-commerce on the NET but have a huge problem overcoming the fact that 46 million domains are owned by the little guy and all endusers control their advertising with a mouse click.

    If you ever think a Walmart can corner e-commerce your mistaken. Their best bet was to join in an affiliate marketing program and get real value from this minor investment verses results from CPM advertising. No need to wish you had Walmart's private invite program at Linkshare since their conversion ratio is 1200 clicks for an average sale of 46.00 at 2% comish. They do want the Walmart.com 2 billion impressions per year wiith clicks costing under 1/10th of a cent.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    chryslerbldg,

    Actually the point of this thread is how ppc traffic has turn to junk untargeted traffic and I am sure alot more fraudulent clicks. The above listings is just an example. If someone is looking to buy ink then they are going to buy it from the sites listed. Otherwise they are just window shopping and our ppc's are an exit out of the page. Thats junk traffic to me. You are right about:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you don't like their policies....don't use them.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thats what I am trying to decide whether to continue to use certain ppc's or not! I think the answer is going to be NOT!!!

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I visit a site that harvests email addresses from their visitors' browsers, they'll get some cartoon character's name<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To my knowledge this type of harvesting was only posible in a very early version of Netscape (I believe ver. 1.x). Has there been a new incidence of this I am not aware of?

    As to the email address on the web pages, it's a valid point and the threat of these new virii is the most compelling reason I have seen to "mask" the address -- shame because it does inconvenience the end-user.

    But my genuine spam (as opposed to virus crud) got out of hand when I started doing ebay. I've verified this with two other ebayers who were virtually spam-free prior to ebay... NOT that ebay is doing anything untoward, it's just too easy for the unscrupulous to harvest your email (or it used to be, I haven't checked lately).

  17. #17
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I gotta disagree with Heyder on this one. I think that, three years from now, affiliate marketing will be stronger than ever, even though many sites will either give up or die off.

    Think of the thousands upon thousands of manufacturers that are going to be turning to affiliate marketing to enhance their web sales! Take a good look at the Thomas Register . Most of those companies will be wanting affiliate programs of one sort or the other.

    And contrary to some of the opinions expressed above, I'd rather have 50,000 customers spend $100 a month any day. Lose one of those customers, it doesn't affect your bottom line. With large customers only, well, lose one of your primary customers, you're laying people off trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage.

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Your right Elbowcreek. These networks better look beyond their fortune 2000 retailer rollodex lsit and find niche' merchants that convert 1 sale per every 100 clicks. When they spend money to automate a CyberRebates and they go under in a big stink owing million to all parties inculding consumers they loose bigtime. When Walmart or Dell structures their program to produce commissions for billions of impressions at under $0.001 cent a click by false reporting or diversion tactics they cannot get the lost affiliates back and the performance taints that network as supporting non-performing merchants.

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Has there been a new incidence of this I am not aware of?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> All I know is that the Hotmail account listed in my browser ID gets a ton of spam. When I change the name, it's only a matter of time before that name starts showing up in "personalized" emails. I'm thinking of Clarabelle Cow for my next persona.

    I don't know what happens on the technical side with all this, but I firmly believe this tactic adds worthwhile protection for my "real" accounts. I surf with Explorer 5.1 and Netscape 4.7, both on the Macintosh.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  20. #20
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    Oh, I forgot you were on a MAC -- all bets are off, I know NOTHING about MAC security. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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