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  1. #1
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    As a young kid I was amazed by the 2 one hour shows put on National TV by Catholic ArchBishop Fulton J Sheen in the late 1950's. Every single prediction he made about ME conflicts bringing on Armagedon has come true. One disturbing feature is about to take place, whether before or after we take out Saddam it will occur as all his other visions did.

    "Dear Peace Lovers, This is an article from TOI( SUNDAY, MAY 19, 2002 ). Here is the URL. Read through please!!!
    ******************************* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Articleshow.a sp?art_id=10387267
    *******************************

    Desperate Pak ready to nuke India !!!!
    By
    CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

    TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ SUNDAY, MAY 19, 2002 8:52:48 PM ]

    *******************
    Excerpt from article
    ********************
    ......Peter Landesman relates a hair-raising conversation he has with a retired Pakistani brigadier who was serving as an aide to Benazir Bhutto. On a visit to Brigadier Amanullah’s house in Islamabad, Landesman sees a landscape painting showing the Bhuttos with what he (Landesman) thinks is a rocket heading to the moon. He asks the Brigadier about it, and is told the painting is actually "A nuclear warhead heading to India".


    The rest of the narrative in Landesman’s own words:


    I thought he was making a joke. Then I saw he wasn't. I thought of the shrines to Pakistan's nuclear-weapons site, prominently displayed in every city. I told Aman that I was disturbed by the ease with which Pakistanis talk of nuclear war with India.


    Aman shook his head. "No," he said matter-of-factly. "This should happen. We should use the bomb."

    "For what purpose?" He didn't seem to understand my question. "In retaliation?" I asked.
    "Why not?"
    _______

    "Or first strike?" answer: "Why not?"


    I looked for a sign of irony. None was visible. Rocking his head side to side, his expression becoming more and more withdrawn, Aman launched into a monologue that neither of us, I am sure, knew was coming:


    "We should fire at them and take out a few of their cities—Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta," he said. "They should fire back and take Karachi and Lahore. Kill off a hundred or two hundred million people. They should fire at us and it would all be over. They have acted so badly toward us; they have been so mean. We should teach them a lesson. It would teach all of us a lesson. There is no future here, and we need to start over. So many people think this. Have you been to the villages of Pakistan, the interior? There is nothing but dire poverty and pain. The children have no education; there is nothing to look forward to. Go into the villages, see the poverty. There is no drinking water. Small children without shoes walk miles for a drink of water. I go to the villages and I want to cry. My children have no future. None of the children of Pakistan have a future. We are surrounded by nothing but war and suffering. Millions should die away."


    "Pakistan should fire pre-emptively?" I asked.


    Aman nodded....yes


    "And you are willing to see your children die?"


    "Tens of thousands of people are dying in Kashmir, and the only superpower says nothing," Aman said. "America has sided with India because it has interests there." He told me he was willing to see his children be killed. He repeated that they didn't have any future — his children or any other children.


    I asked him if he thought he was alone in his thoughts, and Aman made it clear to me that he was not. "Believe me," he went on, "If I were in charge, I would have already done it."


    Aman stopped, as though he'd stunned even himself. Then he added, with quiet forcefulness, "Before I die, I hope I should see it."


    It is this hopeless desperation that western officials are warning India about as New Delhi weighs the military option. A country without a future is quite willing to go down and try and take with it a country which is hopeful of its future despite its myriad problems. Thus comes the plight of the world. Islam is hell bent on destroying the world if it cannot make all humans obedient Muslims.

    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: EcomCity.com ]

  2. #2
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As a young kid I was amazed by the 2 one hour shows put on National TV by Catholic ArchBishop then Cardinal Fultan Sheen in the late 1950's. Every single prediction he made about ME conflicts bringing on Armagedon has come true. One disturbing feature is about to take place, whether before or after we take out Saddam it will occur as all his other visions did.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not familiar with these predictions, got a link??

  3. #3
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    This is nothing but a blind Indian propaganda against Pakistan (and Islam in name of Pakistan).

    They should stop provoking war or they might just get one. Islam is peaceful. As peaceful as Christianity or Hinduism, if not more.

    -BluesX

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    More blood in this world has been shed over Religion, but I see this as only propaganda, as BluesX said.

    Haiko

  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As peaceful as Christianity or Hinduism, if not more.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Another way to phrase that would be

    as bloody as Christianity and Hinduism, if not more!

    come on - Islam has no more right to claim "peaceful religion" as Christianity does. Organized and Sanctified hatred and slaughter would be more like it.

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MsMarySunshine:


    Another way to phrase that would be

    as bloody as Christianity and Hinduism, if not more!

    come on - Islam has no more right to claim "peaceful religion" as Christianity does. Organized and Sanctified hatred and slaughter would be more like it.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Sounds like a farm-raised-in-CNN-public-opinion-farm harvest.

    Good, let's kill all muslims.

    -BluesX

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    If the so called leaders (aka nutcases) of the word truely represented religion I would be ashamed to call myself any faith.

  8. #8
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sounds like a farm-raised-in-CNN-public-opinion-farm harvest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Muslims are currently involved in more armed conflicts in the world than any other religion.

    Now much of that has to do with them previously being in the minority and now becoming in the majority in countries and becoming a religion of the people in others.

    But in places like Nigeria and Algeria were extremists are causing the problems, it is because certain people take the teachings to mean they must fight the infidels.

    Catholics and others are just a bit more lazy these days. They got their big killing days back in the crusades (when they killed muslims). But if you currently count extremists, modern day muslims as a whole are hardly peaceful.

    Chet

  9. #9
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    My point was not "kill all muslims" but rather that the one thing most religions have in common is their capacity to instill hate, to justify murder, and to feel superior because of these beliefs.

    I don't think Islam is any worse than christianity or any other religion that preaches "peace" as they kill in the name of their god (gods).

  10. #10
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Propaganda or not, the proliferation of nuclear weapons in both governmental and non-governmental hands makes it almost inevitable that they will be used in anger.

    Groups like Aum Shinrikyo and Al Qaeda have been linked with the attempted purchase of nuclear materials. The CIA were reporting this as far back as 1996.

    Aum is interesting in that it is accused of attempting to mine and process its own uranium, and there are rumours of an underground nuclear weapons test carried out by Aum in Australia in 1993 (Australia being on of the few places you could let off a nuke without drawing too much attention).

    When you realise too that you don't need to be that accurate with a nuclear weapon to cause mass destruction then you realise what a knife-edge situation we are in. For instance, if you have a nuclear weapon on board a container ship or cargo aircraft, you don't even need to unload it, just detonate it close to the target. Cargo ships are easier - just think how many major cities are within the blast radius of a port? And you KNOW that the targetted country would have to respond in kind against whoever it could lay the blame on, rightly or wrongly.

    Now, without wishing to cause offence, Pakistan and India are not the two most stable countries in the world (actually nor are Russia, Ukraine or Kazakhstan who also possess these weapons). Remember, President Musharraf actually took power in a coup, so the long-term control of these weapons is also a concern.

    Let me speculate about some recent nuclear hardball that may have gone on. If you remember, there was only one government in the world that recognised the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and that was Pakistan. The reasons for this are complex, but essential Pakistan has been trying to exert influence over its neighbour for generations (as have all of it's other neighbours), therefore Pakistan believed that the Taliban regime was in the national interests of Pakistan..

    ..then September 11th happens. There's already a very tense situation between India and Pakistan, and India is trying very hard to gain US favour. The situation is unstable and the US and her allies need to use Pakistani airspace to attack Afghanistan. Given that the US almost definitely knows the exact location of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, it seems likely that the US rather bluntly would have threatened to "neutralise" Pakistani assets if co-operation wasn't forthcoming. This is what we know as Realpolitik.

    Oh and if you want a more complex spin, while Pakistan has traditionally been a US ally, India has a better relationship with the UK and the Commonwealth. Any standoff between these two powers would likely split the structure of western alliances if the US or UK got involved. And consider that in a pre-emptive nuclear attack your primary objective is to eliminate the other side's capability to respond in kind by whichever means are necessary, so if Pakistan managed to attack India in such a way it's quite possible that other countries may launch an counter attack on Pakistan, such as China or the UK which counts itself as India's friend.

    There are so many scenarios like this, it's a wonder that it hasn't happened already. But I have an awful feeling that the only way people will realise how awful these weapons are is when someone uses one. After all, 1945 was a long time ago [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'm not sure of any Catholic Vatican links to Cardinal Bishop Fulton Sheen's history. Being this was the only National TV show put on by the Catholic church in the USA there probably are some. More important is that I and some of my friends do recall the disturbing impact they made at the time of ME conflicts.

    Islam unfortunately has adopted a very aggressive campaign to capture and demand seperatist nations within the borders of all countries where they have large concentrations. They purposely developed funded and dispersed Taliban/Al Quada Muslim religious terror groups worldwide. Am I alarmed and threatened by Islamic led terrorism...you bet. More humans have been slaughtered in the name of religious bigitory throughout history then any other cause. In Nigeria's Islamic over throw 140,000 innocent Christain civilians were slaughtered while the Pals claim the 52 killed in Jenin was parallel to Stalingrad where over 1 million lost their lives.

    Pakistan religious schools churnout 200,000 indocrinated Jehad warriors per year and send this hate filled group to Russian Cheknia, Palistian, Seria, Somelia, Malasia the US and other future Muslim overthrow battle zones. Multiply that with the other 400,000 mosques and we get a idea of the potential danger from Islamic Militants. The USA is watching the Paki trial of the 4 guilty parties who killed Daniel Pearl for a political statement since the largest Muslim Charity (closed down by the FBI) in the US owned the building and orphanage where he was killed. Will they actually find them guilty and execute them? They arrest their proven rape victims and under Muslim law try them for infidelity and execute them and think nothing of it. Are they moral enough to do the same with their Terrorist brothers?

    We certainly would like the Paki military to actively persue -capture or kill the Taliban/Al Quada terrorists. The US and collition countries have declared war upon who openly use the Paki Afganistan border areas to re-launch a springtime counter offensive. Will they actually arrest these bad guys...hell no..only those whom the CIA and undercover Military special ops groups pin point for their police to arrest. Does the USA -Britain or Russia need or trust the Pakis for their War on Terrorism. Afganistan is controlled with or without Paki help.

    Imagine having Arafat get access to a Nuke launch button or for that matter Hamas, Hizbolla or Saddam. Well the Paki's do have multiple fingers on these buttons with Jehad in their Islamic hearts to justify martyrdom for their whole country if it serves their cause. They treat it as a big suicide bomber with the whole country strapping on the bomb belt ..Allah willing. 3 minutes to Armagedon if the Pakis push the buttons. The whole world then will focus of eliminating all Islamic extremists wherever they raise their heads. 150 million deaths in a few minutes will wake us up.

    Can you imagine the determined hours and goals BluesX spent to develop his Software that brings the capitalists to their knees by playing 3 card mollie with the revenues. Only that kind of dedication can come from some secret Islamic desire to put a monkey wrench in the gears. Maybe his prior employer was hooked into Bill Gross's since his coding reeks of parasitewarez. Much more than just a disgruntled employee or contractor. Are we safe to raise our kids and make a living anywhere?? That's GWB's mission/vision and he will stop at nothing to get the job done.

    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: EcomCity.com ]

  12. #12
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    Dynamoo actually I agree with most things you said, just clearing some things & stating the facts :

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>. If you remember, there was only one government in the world that recognised the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and that was Pakistan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    There were 3 - Pak, UAE & Saudi A.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>so if Pakistan managed to attack India in such a way it's quite possible that other countries may launch an counter attack on Pakistan, such as China or the UK which counts itself as India's friend<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, China is more a friend of Pak than of India...

    Also UK won't have too many problems siding with the US !
    But the US cannot easily side with Pak too so that dilemma coming up for the UK is pretty slim.

    THat's it for now...

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    Propoganda or no propoganda, but the slightest thought of a nuclear attack on mumbai (bombay) sends chills through my spinal cord (fear) .

    Not that I am worried about death, but what if i DONT die!!! The idea of living in a destroyed india, all my bussiness plans ruined! All the future billions of dollars that I made in my plans.. all burnt to ashes.

    Not That I am against islam or something, Infact my best friends are followers of islam and I am very inspired by some parts of the religion, but when I started this religious/spiritual discussion forum, some guy posted this thing called the "Agenda of islam" If what this man has written is true, then I guess we non-islam followers are in serious trouble.
    http://www.hostinator.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=5

    is this what the all-loving and kind god want's to do to his children? asking others to kill if they don't listen to him? well, if that is the case, then I don't think islam is a true religion at all.

    But the second thought that comes to mind after reading this article is, all my friends all the muslim businessmen in mumbai, they are not like that! they all are so 'like me'!. without the slightest doubt, I can tell you that they can not even think of killing any non-islamic follower, even in their dreams.

    But then... There is a tense situation here and if pak ever strikes, Mumbai will be it's target.

    BTW,
    I invite all of you to discuss about this topic on http://www.hostinator.com/board .

    Regards,
    Pranav.

    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: Internet_Guru ]

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I sympathize with your situation Pranav and you, more than us, do know that India civilian bloodshed has become horrendeous over the Kismar battle.

    I did find thta Google had many links to Arch Bishop Fulton J Sheen: http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodic...03/reeves.html

    Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
    Catholic Media’s Greatest Star

    by Thomas Reeves


    As 1999 ended, there was speculation about who had been the greatest, most popular, most significant, or most influential Catholic of the preceding 100 years. When it came to the world, Pope John Paul II and Mother Teresa scored high on virtually every list. In the United States, names such as Francis Cardinal Spellman, Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton, Al Smith, and John F. Kennedy received considerable attention. Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen received little notice.

    It is my contention that Sheen was the most influential Catholic of 20th-century America. Indeed, it could be argued that his impact was far superior to others receiving more attention in polls and in the media.
    In the first place, he was the most popular public speaker in the Church, and arguably the best. Millions listened to his Catholic Hour radio programs from 1928 to 1952. Millions also received printed copies of these talks. In 1949, Gladys Baker, a noted journalist, observed that Sheen was “the name priest in America.” She added, “By members of all faiths, Monsignor Sheen is conceded to be the most electric orator of our times.”

  15. #15
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    I stand corrected CEO..

    I think there's a different culture in the west and probably the former Warsaw Pact countries in that we lived with the possibility of nuclear war for over 40 years.

    I read a good article the other day by Chas Newkey-Burden who says:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We may have had only the one fear during the Eighties, but it was a fear well worth harbouring. After watching Threads, teenagers across the country had vivid nightmares of burying their parents in the garden, before wandering through the deserted rubble that was our local High Street. Of stepping over dead women and babies, trying to find food and wondering what rat meat tasted like. We regularly woke in a pool of sweat, after dreams of radiation sickness, of being consumed in a mushroom cloud. Now that nuclear paranoia is considered passé, what do today¹s teens fear? How big their trust funds are? Whether they can afford a suitably lightweight handset for their pay-as-you-go mobile phone deal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ("Threads" was set in post-nuclear-war Sheffield and was a shocking portrayal of what might happen made by the BBC).

    We really did worry about that sort of stuff to the extent that most people in Europe and probably the US had a pretty good idea of what nuclear weapons would actually do.

    Now we have a series of states that have no real understanding of what these things can do and sooner or later someone is going to find out the hard way [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    Of course if there was another war.. a nuclear war.. between Pakistan and India we'd have blood on our streets to as warring Indians and Pakistanis would fight it out. And I honestly think that the UK would find it hard not to get involved in a shooting war [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

  16. #16
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Having invented a new Holocaust,
    And been the first with it to win a war,
    How they make haste to cry with fingers crossed,
    Kings X - no fair to use it anymore!

    by Robert Frost


    Vicki

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I am not familiar with these predictions, got a link??
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm not familiar with them either - I wonder if he was quoting from the Prophecies of St Malachy.

    Try the EWTN Library page at http://www.ewtn.com/new_library/index.htm

    They appear to have a huge body of works.

    Incidently, just because something is authored by a priest or bishop, does not make it authorized or endorsed by the Vatican. Only if the work carries the Imprimatur is it condsidered free of doctrinal and theological errors (in the Catholic Church). I just want to clear that up b/c there is often confusion between the teachings or individual opinions/writings of the priests/bishops and the official teachings of the Church.

    Now, if you want to read something *really* scary, read the Prophecies of St Malachy.

    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  18. #18
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    Hi all,
    Well what do I say ?
    This threatening and constant attacks would have to stop.
    People would say WAR against pakistan is not the solution. Then what the heck must we do ?
    We've been trying to get this issue solved ever since we got independence.
    Perhaps, Mahatma Gandhi's decision to part with Pakistan was the correct one. I am happy that we don't have such perverted idiots in our country.

    Ofcourse its the terrorists, but the pakistani govt is no less. It's support for terrorism in Kashmir is but obvious.

    How many years since India has used the "Let's talk and solve method"....Has it worked ? No certainly not. All it has done is blood shed.

    Then So be it...I don't think any other country must interfere. This isn't their battle. As we all know for the fact that when a third country interferes, Indian motives are always damaged.

    Especially a pesky country which loves to stick their nose in middle as always.
    :mad:

    War has to be the ultimate solution. But war against the Pak Govt and not the public.
    I'd say we need to finish the pak govt off. And perhaps Pak must once again be a part of the country it belongs to.


    Regards
    TGO

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Pranav's link to an article that everyone worldwide -Christian -Jew -Hindu -Moslem etc etc should read and memorize. It totally explains the viewpoints that are ingrained within the current conflicts. This one lecture article also explains that there will be no world peace.. EVER .. as long as Islam is a practiced religion and way of life. That explains why all my dealings with Moslems never left me feeling like I could trust them or rely on them to stand by their word. THEY DIDN'T. In their hearts they believe their agreements are only binding if given Moslem to Moslem...all others are to be decieved.

    Please read that article and share it with your friends -family and web site visitors. It is NOT inflametory ..it is just the pure undeniable truth. I sure wish a TV station would re-broadcast Fulton Sheen's Middle East Road to Armegedon shows. They would pale any current fluff reporting and maybe cause to bring us back from the brink ..once more.

    Excerp from Pravnav link:
    "This lecture by Prof. Moshe Sharon, which was e-mailed to me by one of our subscribers, caught my attention because it challenges us to understand a fundamental tenet of the Moslem faith, namely, that "Islam divides the world into two parts: one part that is already under the rule of Islam, the other part which must come under the rule of Islam in the future. And this can happen either if the rest of the world, which is non-Islamic, succumbs to Islam or is conquered by Islam." This division of the world was reflected in bin Laden's recent statement. He said, "These events have divided the whole world into two sides. The side of believers and the side of infidels."

    [ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: EcomCity.com ]

  20. #20
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    From the day after Mohammed got it all together - Islam has been a political ideaology with a belief system (religion) built in to support it.

    In medieval times and whenever after they could make it work - Islam was the state and the religion.

    Today, in Islamic countries governments govern at the will of the mullahs in the mosques - all education comes from the mosques - the whole of any Islamic society is
    a direct reflection of the interpretations of the various mullahs in charge of the mosques.

    If you go to any Islamic country - you will never find a mullah who is not well fed, clothed or hard up relative to the population as a whole. And you will also never find any mullah who gives a rats ass about the health and welfare of the people while they are here on earth.

    Americans in particular and westerners in general are simply ignorant of how it all works.

    For example: Arafat can tell non-believers anything he wants even if it's a complete lie and fabrication because the are infidels and as such you can do anything you want to them.

    Yet westerners are so stupid they believe him.

    On the other hand if he lied to his people they would kill him in a heart beat.

    Why is he still living? Because what he says to us and what he says to his people are two opposite things.

    It is inconceivable to Islamic practitioners that they are poor for one simple reason - they believe in Islam and the social organization it engenders.

    But that is the overroding, single reason for their paid and suffering. Islam is a belief system that does not work in the modern world.

    In a technological world with intense pressure put on resources by a population of
    5 billion people, basing life and death decisions on technologically ignorant old men reading a book of petrified "how to" which was assembled for a time and place that no longer exists, is a perscription for poverty and suffering.

    In today's world, especially in the west, no one in their right mind would let any religion even attempt to do what Islamic
    believers try to do - tell them how to live.

    LIFE AND DEATH ARE TOO IMPORTANT TO LEAVE IN THE HANDS OF RELIGION AND THE FANATICS IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO CREATE.

    Henry the VIII was probably the first to get this clue and it's been a down hill ride for Christianity as a political power ever since.

    Moslems believe that Christianity is structured just like Islam is structured because they only know Islam, and that is a main reason they mis-interpret the west practically 100% of the time.

    Islamic believers believe you are supposed to believe in God and live as Mohammed told you live.

    Christians belivers believe you are supposed to belive in God and you can make up all the rest and live however gets the job done for you.

    Which is why you have a zillion flavors of Christianity and only 5 or so of Islam. And those 5 'flavors' are nothing more than internal conflicts among 5 different groups of mullahs over who gets to tell the followers what Mohammed said and who gets to be in charge.

    In the end, Islam as conceived by most belivers is doomed to be eradicated from the planet. For one main reason: it is detrimental to the survival of life as we know it.

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    "Incidently, just because something is authored by a priest or bishop, does not make it authorized or endorsed by the Vatican. Only if the work carries the Imprimatur is it condsidered free of doctrinal and theological errors (in the Catholic Church). I just want to clear that up b/c there is often confusion between the teachings or individual opinions/writings of the priests/bishops and the official teachings of the Church."

    The writings -TV show and the monies Fulton J Sheen raised for Catholic Charites led the Pope to place in motion the lengthy process of cannonizing him as the first ever American Saint. He ruffled many feathers within the church with his non compromising retoric. The World and the American Public love him and the Church & World needs him now more than ever.

    I sure wish TGO would post his heart felt comments on Pranav's link...only Musarrif's intervention keeps Bin Ladens finger off the NUKE India button. http://www.hostinator.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=5

  22. #22
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    TGO, the problem is that war between two states with nuclear weapons is EVERYBODY'S problem. If those things start being used then other countries are bound to get involved.

    Ironically, Musharraf may be the person to STOP it happening - I guess he's trying to ensure enough popularity for himself and his regime to stop as takeover by more extreme Islamic factions. Can you imagine what might happen if there was civil war in Pakistan? Who would end up with the nuclear weapons?

    The root cause, Kashmir, has no easy solutions. Any process towards peace has to be a slow one and both sides have to be committed to find a fair solution. We're edging towards this in Northern Ireland (Christians vs Christians), Israel and Palestine *were* making progress until Sharon took power.

    For a peaceful solution, BOTH sides have to WANT peace. It doesn't matter what the long term solution is going to be, because once you have a period peace often most people won't want to go back.

    Here's another problem though. There is good evidence to show that the Pakistani government (or elements within it) are involved in actions that the Indian government views as terrorism. But Pakistan is one of the US's allies *against* terrorism.. isn't it? And if Pakistan is truly a terrorist state, then isn't the US committed to move against it? Ironically, the US seems to be turning a blind eye to Pakistan as it has been doing to Israel. (I can feel the flame war starting here).

    Also understand this, India is a democracy. Pakistan is a military dictatorship. The US and it's allies have pledged to uphold democracy, but doesn't that put them in an awkward spot?

    But this isn't about Islam - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and almost every other flavour of religion is used as an excuse to wage war. Muslims will go to war with Muslims and Christians very often go to war with other Christians, religion is merely being used as a way of saying "these people are different to us, therefore they are our enemies".

    TGO, I don't know if it was the UK or US who were "sticking their nose in", but Britain's ties with the subcontinent are very strong. Well over a million people from the Indian subcontinent live in Britain. Britain is at least partly responsible for the awful mess we left that part of the world in.

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I made up my mind. I'm going to go the Dearborn Mi. which has the largest Arab Moslem population in the US and talk to the US arab street. My local gas station -dollar store -convience store Arabs just smile take the money and say nothing. I'd never expect to be allowed into a Mosque ( no desire to enter one) being a Silver hair white guy looking like Ted Turner or a FBI agent. I want to feel the reaction to normal questions rather than incite a confrontation. I'll report back the results of the field trip.

  24. #24
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    Dynamoo;
    Read that lecture/artical http://www.hostinator.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=5 and then the light bulbs will go on. GWB and Blair I'm sure have seen and believe it. Our war time president is playing all sides to win a inevitable victory if allowed to focus his combined forces. Remember the October 2001 trip of Colin Powell (GWB's spokeman) and how long he took in each one of the 5 countries visited (Saudi Arabia -Pakistan -India -China -Korea) to get the GWB message across loud and clear.

    One day in Pakistan and Mussarif got the message -cooperate or we'll let your Militant mullahs and Moslem thugs hang you on a lamp post tommorrow. GWB knows the Saudi's use the Paki's as a breeding training ground for Islamic terrorism. Saddam and Iraq have no hidden adjendas since they openly despise the US and all Jews-Christains and democracy governments. After the Pearl trial we will no longer have a need for Paki limited assistance and our isolated troops will love to exit that hell hole of a country. Only the Moslem Militants rule the streets there and if we pull out Musarrif is dead meat and a Arafat type will rule.

  25. #25
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    Regardless of distortions created by people who use religious labels for their own ends, I kinda think God prefers it when we settle our disputes with love, logic, and a generous spirit, not by hitting each other over the head.

    Jesus taught, "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you ..." (Matthew 6:43)

    The prophet Micah said, "... the Lord has told us what is good. What He requires of us is this: to do what is just, to show constant love, and to iive in humble fellowship with our God." (Micah 6:8)

    I can't quote similar passages from the scriptures of other faiths, but I suspect there would be plenty to find if I had the time to look.

    Even the mathematicians who study game theory will tell you that in the long run, all the players come out further ahead if they learn to use co-operative strategies.

    "You can't hug your kids with nuclear arms."

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