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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    Cedric:

    Your post had the quotation:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    "Why use differential calculus when you can guess?" -- Dave Fogg
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I guess I am one of those nerds that would find that funny.

    Did six years of differential calculus and have yet to apply it in daily life. Guessing is definitely cheaper (considering tuition) and probably just as accurate for day-to-day experiences.

    But I am still glad I took those courses!

    Even the engineers that I know and work with don't know or understand that "distance is the first dirivative of velocity and velocity is the first dirivative of acceleration "= basic calculus freshman year.

    Computers and calculators, with their ease and speed, have taken away the need for the fundamental understanding of how the math works.

    For the common person, higher math is not considered important anymore.

    And, I feel, that is a shame because those who excel in math, science,physics and engineering are the ones who will make the largest impact on our life in the future. And the common person will be left in total darkness because they were never exposed to the fundamentals.

    Doc

  2. #2
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    And I didn't think anyone read sig lines. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I come from a family with multiple math teachers -- I hear your concerns (and have heard them before... many times [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]).

    >>Computers and calculators, with their ease and speed, have taken away the need for the fundamental understanding of how the math works.<<

    True... but guessing did it first. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Hehehe, yeah, it just seems I never do use those sixth dimensional integrals I used to get so much pleasure out of solving in day-to-day-experience.

    On the other hand, I can't think of a day in my life I haven't used algebra in some way. That's with the handicap of 15 years in a field where I needed it for w*rk, mind you.

    Of course, everyone around me who guesses instead of using algebra does just as well [img]tongue.gif[/img] .

  4. #4
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Urrgghh I hated calculus, especially substitutions with weird trig functions. I think one problem was that nobody ever took the time to explain what it was FOR. (And I still don't know!)

  5. #5
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    LOL...well as one of my friends who was a math major and loved doing abstract algebra once said.

    "You need calculus to get into space but for most people drugs work just as well."

    And as Doc says you can describe the trip from Bountiful to the Mall with a differential equation but the word SALE will get people to actually go to the mall.

    As elegant as calculus is, one has a 33.3% chance of being right simply by picking one of 3 outcomes - 0, 1, -1.

    I was amazed how it was always one of those three answers no matter what the problem was...I never figured out how to get the answer but I knew what it was most of the time 0, 1, -1.

    Kinda of like is tracking on, off or not affected.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    Math makes my head hurt. I spent many years using calculus to size beams and trusses for buildings I've designed. BeamCalc software cut my time in half for drafting a set of house plans. I think my Tylenol expenses have been proportionaly reduced as well. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    >For the common person, higher math is not considered important anymore.

    But the uncommon person will find their way to it regardless.

    Thing is, everyone who loves a subject thinks that kiddies should be exposed to it. Well I was exposed to this too. And I must say that for a whole three years I did not understand one single word. I'd rather have been exposed to the emmisions from Sellafield nuclear reactor.

    It felt like I was expected to juggle with balls I couldn't see, and when all I could do was say 'eh?' it was like My Fault, somehow.

    To be fair, I know kids who spent their entire school day feeling like this for 11 years. I was probably lucky it was only calculus.

    I was going to say that my time would have been far better spent elsewhere, but - I supposed it is good to learn to fail, completely and utterly, through no fault of your own and despite your best efforts. So long as you don't make a habit of it.

    If anyone wants to explain to me what calculus is actually *for* you'll have taught me more about it than any professional managed to.


    I

    [ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Icicle: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"You need calculus to get into space but for most people drugs work just as well."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hehehehe, I still like to contemplate transcendental numbers and infinetly small segments of a curve. But then, I can just drop that as soon as one of my kids walks in the door, unlike other forms of mind alteration [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] .

    That reminds me, I had a project trying to describe e as a function which optimizes taking the potential to the actual... where did I put those notes?

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    A few weeks back, I purchased 10 pounds of bulk seed priced at $1.49 per pound. The checker had to punch the numbers into a calculator. I asked, "can't you do that in your head? ... 10 times $1.49".

    He said, "yes, but I wanted to make sure".

    Yikes!

    The best thing that EVER happened to my two kids (ahem...within the realm of this subject..), in my opinion, was a calculator that would start giving random answers when the batteries were low.

    The kids learned to estimate an answer to the problem in their mind so that they could decide if the calculator was correct or not.

    I still have that calculator. I load it with old batteries and leave it sitting around at my work.

    "Hey, can I borrow that calculator?"

    Oh, sure... Hehe... :rolleyes:


    Doc

  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A few weeks back, I purchased 10 pounds of bulk seed priced at $1.49 per pound. The checker had to punch the numbers into a calculator.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The good news is that it's 2002 and not 1968 when he wouldn't have had a calculator.

    Doc, I'm sympathetic to your position, but there were people who couldn't do that type of math in their head before the creation of calculators. And if you grew up in my family where math was a BigDeal, you'd know that the problem was just as prevalent with checkout clerks then as it is now.

    Being bad at math doesn't make you stupid or uneducated. My achilles' heel is foreign language. I have about 18 hours of college Spanish (because a foreign language was required) and honest-to-goodness, no matter HOW HARD I tried, I couldn't learn it. I tried and tried and tired. I had to take the last class twice just to get a high enough grade to pass and graduate. I'm am by no means stupid, but if I had to speak Spanish to be a checkout clerk, I could NEVER be one.

    At least not until we get that universal translator they have on Star Trek.

  11. #11
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    "Math makes my head hurt.~Ernie"

    Ditto!!

    When I grew up, my mother thought that calculators were A Bad Thing. She made me figure out all basic math in my head.

    When I grew up, one of the first things I did was get a nice, beautiful Calculator!!! I figured I'd never have to do any more math in my head, YES! (A calculator still has a prime position on my desk [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] )

    But, poisonous as it was to have to learn to do basic math mentally, it has come in handy. Calculators get lost, batteries die (the one I have now has a solar cell so I don't have to worry about THAT part [img]tongue.gif[/img] ), etc.

    But it's not something I'd do for fun. And calculus sounds awful! Heck, algebra was awful. I had the same experience with it that Cedric did with Spanish.

    But I'd rather deal with English than any kind of math any day! Classes where I could learn the subject just by reading the book (but no calculations required) were easy.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    I went to school with a genius type who could do differential calculus in his head at age 13. After school he and his friends rushed to his room to solve math problems while the rest of us went outside to play football. When he entered high school he passed us up and began college math courses. When graduation time rolled around he was left behind because he couldn't pass PE. He was required to do just one push-up to pass, but couldn't do it. It took him months to get his diploma. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  13. #13
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    >...those who excel in math, science,physics and engineering are the ones who will make the largest impact on our life in the future...

    A-ha!

    I shall disagree with that! Look, I have advanced degrees (MS & PhD) in Theoretical Physics and Computational Physics, I am yet to see a single ABW member affiliate marketing enthusiast to agree with my ideas.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    It is past the time we give up on scientific reasoning and pay a premium for wild guessing!

    -BluesX

    ----------------------------
    BTW what is "differential calculus"?
    ----------------------------

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    Oh not true. Not true at all. I find myself agreeing with you nearly all the time. I'm not one to post an agreement like those 'WTG' posts.

    But, I guess I could now and again if it will make you feel better .<IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon12.gif>


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    ----------------------------
    BTW what is "differential calculus"?
    ----------------------------
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh you know: the calclulus where you make those little equations wth the "dx" at the end... as opposed to integral calculus where you get to make those great big "S's".


    Doc

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is past the time we give up on scientific reasoning and pay a premium for wild guessing!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    BluesX: I agree.

    Doc

  16. #16
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    BluesX

    Theoretical Physics is important for affiliate marketing...how else would we be able to know that all the lost sales from CJ, Snare And BeScrewed were sucked up by a
    super massive blackhole and that tracking is
    accurate in a Heisenberg sort of way - you know the wave-particle thing.

    The reply that says:

    There were no sales because we were looking for them in wave form and the ones you want were in particle form - or vice versa.

    Or the idea that the laws of land and affiliate marketing break down at the singularity of the zero day cookie or trusted third party.

  17. #17
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    Fred,

    That was pretty good.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] My specialty in theoretical physics, tho, is to calculate the mass spectrum and the interaction strengths among glueballs, which are the most likely manifesto of nothing (aether) that the whole universe is ultimately made of.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    What I learned was that dealing with nothing brings you nothing, and nothing more than that.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    -BluesX

  18. #18
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    Nothing ...isn't that what you get from Linkshare for selling a ton of stuff as an affiliate.

    Maybe they should change their name to The Glueball Network.

  19. #19
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Naw, it's just that CommissionJunCtion is a phenomenon which only manifests positively in certain conditions (like those found on my sites [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ). In other conditions, Nothing may be manifested--or only a mere hint of the phenomenon.

    As for naming a network the Glueball Network, sure, that'd sell. In fact I already thought of a preliminary pitch for it.

    Just as long as no theoretical physicists end up enemies of the Glueball Network (and therefore decide to translate the meaning into plain English) it should sell without a problem.

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