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  1. #1
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    This is absolutely impossible to believe and the worst of any goofy internet patent, if given final approval, that ever would have been granted.

    I am still sitting here in amazement of what of I have just read and seen.

    A company is close to getting a patent for pop-unders. They now though can collect royalties from any website that uses a pop under, even before the patent is offically granted.

    It can't be.

    They're not seeing any of my money, I can tell you that. I got all of my assets out the US 2 years ago.

    This country is patent, copyright and trademark insane.

    I still can't believe this is going to happen.

    To get a patent on a little piece of javascript, truely amazing.

    The patent office has done a number of dopey things since internet companies have applied to get patents on the most simple and basic of functions that everyone uses on the internet, but this goes miles beyond all of them

    Here is a two paragraph excerpt from http://internetnews.com/IAR/article.php/1363781
    --------
    In February, the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office published ad network ExitExchange's patent application, which protects "post-session Internet advertising," commonly referred to as a "pop-under" ad. Under patent law, ExitExchange now is entitled to royalties from other companies that use pop-unders, although the firm's patent has yet to be approved.

    ExitExchange said that it has secured licensing arrangements with several, unnamed firms that use or sell pop-under ads, and that it is negotiating with "some of the major players" in the market. The company also said it planned to send notice letters to firms using pop-under advertising.
    --------

    If you go to the website http://www.exitexchange.com they talk about their amazing technology and how they worked very hard to develop it. They even have a tour of how a pop under works.

    It is truely ground breaking work they have done.

    I do believe it is about time the patent office is permanently shut and all of it's inhabitants sent to a far far away land.

    [ 06-11-2002: Message edited by: RaveClub ]

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Jeez ..they're taking away one of the wornout toys of the Gorrilla advertisers. I sure can see where Pop-up -unders or UCE spam have so pissed the web public that the the Ad Grafitti guys are going to have to put value into a click.

    Worry more about the guy who invented and patented toilet paper. The quicker anyone in the online Advertising game gets laid off the more value will go into PPA affiliates efforts.

  3. #3
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    RaveClub

    There is nothing to worry about...Why do you need to ? If you are involved in pop-unders...I don't think you would need to pay royalties...

    Let me brief out.
    Where and who gave pop-unders an official name ? Is this some sort of BIG BIG concept..NAH...

    Heck, I shall use it and call them window-unders...

    I don't think that it is something strong enough...Cos dude, let me repeat it again..There isn't anything officially fixed for it...

    I will name a Window-under on my own terms...Something that opens a new window, under the original window... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    That is my belief...Am I wrong guys ?

    Regards
    TGO

    If I am right then please be kind enough to pay me the royalties... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    If I am wrong...Let's see, we all can definetely come up with a solution...

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  4. #4
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    I recommend they send a letter to Hitbox first of all (See http://www.abestweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/...c&f=1&t=001185 )

    Larry Wentz http://www.AffiliateNetwork.org

    (hmmmm..... - I may direct ExitExchange.com to that thread and let the harassment begin!)

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wentzco:
    I recommend they send a letter to Hitbox first of all (See http://www.abestweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/u ltimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001185 )

    Larry Wentz http://www.AffiliateNetwork.org

    (hmmmm..... - I may direct ExitExchange.com to that thread and let the harassment begin!)

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yikes - I just read the story! Exit Exchange = WebSideStory = Hitbox . My plan is screwed from the start!


    Larry Wentz http://www.AffiliateNetwork.org

  6. #6
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    TGO, sorry but your plan wouldn't work.

    Calling them "Window-Unders" would only avoid TRADEMARK hassles from ExitExchange.

    A PATENT covers the technology/invention/concept itself, not what you call it. So you'd need to do more than just rename it.

    Rave, what typically happens in cases like this is that the patent is granted.

    BUT--that doesn't mean much. What happens NEXT is the most important part:

    Scenario #1 (common):
    Some place with enough money to fight a lawsuit uses the tech. anyway. Then they get sued. Then, they (In this case, ExitExchange and "Popping-Anyway" [made up name]) argue the VALIDITY of the patent in court, with "Popping-Anyway" as the Defendant.

    Alternatively, someone may sue ExitExchange in advance of using popunders, to have Exit's patent invalidated. The legal equivalent of "Patented?!? Oh, yeah? We'll just see about that!"

    Most of these types of patents (ie, the "Oh, get real!" type) are found by the courts to be invalid and thrown out.

    Despite the inefficiency in the patent and legal systems, it actually seems to work pretty well in terms of the FINAL result. Of course there are the exceptions to the rule but I wouldn't expect ExitExchange's patent to be found valid once it has been challenged in court. Which it will be, if they try to enforce it on anyone with enough $$$ for a lawyer.

    In US courts, "what happens next" is the important part 99% of the time. Unfortunately, the newspapers, TV, etc. usually don't report on that part, which gives a rather skewed view of the legal system. Like when somebody sues and gets a "$5 billion award". Too bad for the fact that the Final Result isn't exciting news and doesn't get wide coverage. Because the final result (often, "The Huge Award was reduced to a few hundred dollars on appeal") is what counts.

    When ExitExchange's patent gets thrown out probably the only ones that'll ever hear of that part will be in internet business. But the general public will only know of that first, sensationalistic report unless they dig for the information!

  7. #7
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    I dunno ... If they can prove first use of it (pop-unders) , and they are the first to patent it , everyone else may be out of luck ... at least until new laws are passed.

    It IS so dumb, but even if others used pop-unders freely for years, usually... the first one that patents it, gets the golden egg . You snooze you lose. Isn't that what Amazon said about everyone else using a "one click " checkout process which WAS in common use by other online stores ?

    Wonder if anyone patented the concept and method of doing business for banner exchanges yet ? If not, one of you that owns one better JUMP on that gravy train , looks like the law is on your side [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Lisa

  8. #8
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    I must disagree...

    As I recall, patents are only good if they aren't for logical extensions of what existed before (legalese, they can't be derivations of prior art).

    In this case, I would think that popUPS would be easy to show as an example of prior art, invalidating the patent on pop unders.

    And there is even prior art before that--popping windows are a logical extension of normally-opening windows.

    Therefore I believe ExitExchange's patent is dead meat.

    [ 06-12-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

  9. #9
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    I don't see what the problem is. The post-it note is just a piece of paper with some glue on it. But it deserves patent protection. The idea of opening up a browser window AFTER the visitor has left a site is a very novel idea and I'm happy for them. That's a good idea, it's simple, it's effective and who would have thought of, until after they see it? Sure, you can look at the post-it now and think, "I could have thought of that" but that only shows you the value of the patent. Sure you "could" have, but did you? (general you, not specifically you.)

    If they get the patent for popunders, I salute them.

  10. #10
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    hey toilet mike

    Do you eat the toilet paper before or after it is used.

    okay so you do both, that explains your tendency of doing the opposite of what think you're doing.

    What'da ya GOOfY!! - I raised my hand in the air in astonishment

    Do I recall now you're the child who doesn't use pop ups because you're concerned they might improve sales for you.

    Find an adult person to apply the drano.

    That's the first thing you need to have done.

    Next thing is to get yourself layedoff from your site. It's like when a person starts a company a everyone soon realizes he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

    Then of course hire some real advertising profesionals to whip that site into shape.

    Then just sit back and drain....and drain.........and keep draining.........................................

    [ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: RaveClub ]

  11. #11
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    AffJus, I think the main reason for the "prior art" rule was to keep places from being able to patent blatant knockoff products, but it has been used (or abused) successfully against things which are actually quite different/innovative, as well.

    As for Post-Its, there actually are a few knockoffs for sale. But to find out just how that's possible would require more research than I have the patience for. It could be any number of things (licensing agreement on the technology, patent infringement, expired patent [they go for different lengths of time depending on type of item], or other) which is responsible for these unbranded versions.

    (Note to TGO--if 3M has and chooses to enforce a valid patent, it won't matter what the other companies call their version.)

    As for what the problem is with ExitExchange, those that use popunders most likely are concerned about having to pay a royalty on every pop.

    To me, the validity of their patent is just something to speculate on, since I don't intend to run any. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it (the Final Result, of course), and see how that compares with what I've read about patent law.

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    RaveClub you suffer from constipation of thought and diaria of words. Everyone knows Al Gore invented Toilet paper and like Popup and unders they swirl throughout the Net before they are completely flushed.

  13. #13
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    Mike! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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