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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Dot COM Dilemma ???
    OK here is a question for you guys and gals.....

    I am always looking for new domain names as I am sure most of us are..

    I ran across a GREAT domain name a couple of weeks ago...
    BUT
    There is a problem... all the domains are open.. accept the DOT COM...

    This is an excellent domain name.. perfect for selling just about anything under the sun...

    The owner of the DOT COM is no where to be found.. via snail mail, phone calls, or e-mail..
    I have sent e-mails to dozens of people regarding this domain with no luck in finding the correct owner to make them an offer.... This is not some company that owns thousands of domains and squats on them... this is an individual...

    I did look at the history of the domain and there was a site up on it in 2002.. but nothing since... the content of the site in 2002 is not even close to what I would have built on it or plan on building on the dot NET...

    OK now for the question...
    Should I go ahead and build on the dot NET...???

    AND

    If I do build on the dot NET... what happens if the owner comes out of hiding after I get thousands of visitors per day and opens up the same thing on the dot COM...?????????? since the dot COM is usually the first extension typed in....

    Should I trademark the domain name??

    Would I have the same recourse as a popular dot com does when a dot net opens up the same kind of site...???

    I have registered ALL the other versions of the domain.. from the dot CO.UK to the new dot MOBI

    Is it worth it to pursue this..??

    AND one more thing.... the more I build on the dot NET the more valuable the dot COM becomes... so would I be upping my own price by building on the dot NET before acquiring the dot COM...??


    Basically.....
    WHAT SHOULD I DO........???


    Thanks!!!!

  2. #2
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    I assume that you have done the obvious.............check the who-is?

    When does registration expire? It must have been registered 2002 or before. It has already been almost 5 years. Can you pick it up on expiration?
    You must climb this mountain. There is no elevator. ---- Don't stick your finger in the liquid nitrogen.
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  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    I've been doing the same thing for a .com that I have the .net for. I can't ever get a hold of anyone to tell me "get lost", or, "OK, I'll listen to an offer." I know for a fact that I miss out on a few direct type ins with this domain, as the word of mouth around the campfires says "I went to your site and there was nothing there!" which is the .com site
    Scott
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls#!t
    Don't tell me that you'll do it... SHOW ME.
    Just because everyone else is drinking it is no reason for me to drink the KOOL-AID.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Witzer - Yes I checked the Who Is.. that is how I contacted them via snail mail, e-mail...etc... but no response.....

    Nature Boy - There is nothing but a 404 on the dot COM... And I would lose traffic to type ins... but not for awhile since people don't type in unless it is a known site... this is not a known site YET...

    By the way I have back-ordered the domain since it expires in April 2007.. not too far off.....

    But this brings up another issue... what if someone else has already back-ordered the domain and I do not get it... would it be best to have the domain trademarked before hand..??

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    This also brings up another question...

    How Much Is A Domain Worth...??

    I could take a domain like blah123.com and turn it into a million dollar site..
    Once the domain has 150,000 people a day visiting then it is worth something...

    But right out of the box blah123.com is worthless...
    Unless there is someone like me really wanting blah123.com -- LOL

    But this domain is a really good one.. very easy to remember and generic so anything could be built on it and do very well with the proper SEO and advertising...
    To tell you the truth I can't believe that someone still has it with nothing on it..
    It already sounds like a million dollar site... so how does that come into the equation of how much the domain is actually worth..??

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's frustrating as all hell. We actually did that with our site. We originally built on urbansKooters.com and monitored the urbanscooters.com domain. Luckily the guy who owned urbanscooters.com dumped it not too long after. We got really lucky though. I don't think I'd try that again. That K would have killed us.

    Non dot com's are a killer, too. I'd monitor the dot com name you want and keep brain storming for an equally good site name. Break out your thesaurus. I like using www.rhymezone.com when I'm brainstorming site names.

  7. #7
    Outsourced Program Manager Nick Prussakov's Avatar
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    Agree with Frank. I'd rather monitor the one I want and register something similar but definitely .com

  8. #8
    Newbie michelleus's Avatar
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    If somebody doesn't respond to the email address in their whois and you can persuade ICANN that the email address is incorrect, then ICANN are legally obliged to expire the domain name and you can snap it up. Not many people know that outside the domaining community. I have done it before.

  9. #9
    Newbie michelleus's Avatar
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    BTW, contact me if you need any help

  10. #10
    Outsourced Program Manager Nick Prussakov's Avatar
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    Michelle, do you mean to say that all the domains that have as their email something like "name@domainsbyproxy.com" can be suspended for they aren't real?

  11. #11
    Newbie michelleus's Avatar
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    No, Nick, I don't mean those - obviously.

    According to the rules, if somebody uses false whois data, not hidden, they are breaking ICANN's regulations and the domain name registration should be revoked.

    If you try repeatedly to contact somebody via the email address and they don't respond, contact Internic on this page. You might have to do it a few times. They will try to contact the domain name owner. If they, too, fail to get a response, they are legally obliged to cancel the domain name and allow somebody else to snap it up.

    It does take persistance though.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input....

    michelleus - Everything about the whois info is incorrect..
    Even the hosting company doesn't have contact information any more since they stopped hosting it a long time ago.... now it is just sitting there in cyberspace....
    BTW - how am I supposed to contact you..?? LOL..

    One thing I do not understand is the fact that all the whois info is incorrect...
    I thought at first that the person is just squatting on the domain waiting until the price of real short and simple easy to remember domains are all taken.. then he/she would sell it... BUT if all the whois info is incorrect then how would anyone contact them to make an offer... they may sell it via AUCTION.. kind of like HELL.COM has done...

    frankodelic - Yea I hear ya.. that is why I wanted to talk to the owner before it expires... once it is expired I may not be the only one that has it backordered and I may not get it... if I talk to the owner before it is expired I could offer him/her a pretty penny and get it transferred before it goes back to the registrars or someone else... although I am monitoring it that is not 100%...

    I know backcountry.com went through the same thing when they were using the domain backcountrystore.com and having a high producing site already set up on backcountrystore.com made backcountry.com more valuable... I know BC paid a pretty penny for the backcountry.com domain.... I don't want to go that route...

    That is my dilemma... if I build on the dot NET... it just ups the price of the dot COM later... it would allow him/her to see what my plans are ahead of time and adjust the price of the domain...

    I would pay at the most $1000 for the dot COM right now...
    When I called the number on the whois.... I asked about it.. and the guy said he gets a lot of calls for that domain but he doesn't have anything to do with it.. and has no forwarding info for the owner... but hearing that he gets a lot of calls for it scares me... KIND OF... I would think that if anyone was REALLY interested in it they would do like I have done and register all the other extensions first....

    I would also think that me having all the other extensions registered would make someone think twice about opening up something HUGE on the dot COM... MAYBE...

    I guess I could just trademark the domain name now... and if someone else gets the dot COM... I could force them to either buy the other domains from me along with the trademark or take the risk of having me steal a bunch of their traffic later...?? or sell me the dot COM to me for a decent price...

    This is a one of a kind domain name...
    Lets put it this way... it is two SHORT words.. and all variations of BOTH words are registered already.... beleive me I have used everything I know to come up with a comparable domain name.. and NOTHING is open... it amazes me... everytime I come up with a new variation I check and its already gone...

    I'll keep trying... I am hard headed when it comes to this kind of stuff.. "pitbull like" if I may say so myself... I won't let go of an idea until I have exhuasted all my options... then I usually try all the options a couple of more times before I give up... LOL.....


    Anyone else want to give me your two cents...???


  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    michelleus - THANKS.... I will try that then....... hopefully someone else hasn't backordered the domain before me.... LOL probably ten backorders in front of mine but I'll keep trying..!

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    michelleus, that is some good advice. Never thought of doing that. Kudos to michelleus!!!

    AddHandler, Yeah... do what michelleus says, and backorder the domain as well. Who knows? You might get lucky.

    The main problem with a non dot com extension is that a huge percentage of your non-link based advertising will draw people to the dot com domain. Dot com is what people are used to and that's what they remember.

  15. #15
    Outsourced Program Manager Nick Prussakov's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification, Michele. Very useful tip on Internic!

    AddHandler, I'd say that the registration of a trademark is a good idea and may be the possible solution for you in such a situation (in case someone else is gonna get the domain upon expiration with its existing owner). However, I'm not certain that it works for everyone.

    What do others think about this?

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    If I trademark the domain name...
    Would it be taken into consideration if I try to enforce it.. That I didn't actually OWN the dot COM before trademarking it...???

    If worse came to worse do you think I could force the owner to hand it over using an attorney...??

    The attorney fees would probably be well over $1000...

    I just wish I could contact the person... in the whois.. the persons name is spelled two different ways for billing and administration... making me think it is all bogus info to begin with...

    Seeing as I have never trademarked anything... how would I go about trademarking it..??

  17. #17
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    If you try repeatedly to contact somebody via the email address and they don't respond,
    Are you saying that valid P.O. Box, Phone Number and Registrant count for nothing? I use an email address that is highly spam filtered, and would probably never see an email. We would get a contact by phone or snail mail though. This doesn't seem quite right.

  18. #18
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    If you end up backordering it - and you probably already do this - backorder it from a number of sources, not just snapnames.com .
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bumpaw
    Are you saying that valid P.O. Box, Phone Number and Registrant count for nothing? I use an email address that is highly spam filtered, and would probably never see an email. We would get a contact by phone or snail mail though. This doesn't seem quite right.
    Which is one reason I use a gmail addy for all my domains and forward it to my main mail account. Than when I start getting spam I just change the address to another throw away gmail account. I takes just a few seconds now with godaddys last update to change the contact information on all my domains at one time

    I just got an offer for one of my domains.... if I had a spam filter set I never would have seen it.
    CharPaula
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  20. #20
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    According to the rules, if somebody uses false whois data, not hidden, they are breaking ICANN's regulations and the domain name registration should be revoked.
    I have about a half hour invested in looking for "ICANN's regulations". Can anyone speed me up with a link please? I'm definitely a doubting Thomas on this.

    I can't imagine that if a contact person is in the hospital and not checking his email that he could loose his website and business without and attempted phone call or snail mail.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    bumpaw - " The accuracy of Whois data must be improved, both at the time of its initial registration and at regular intervals. Whois records known to be false or inaccurate, or to have information that can not be validated, must be frozen or held until they can be updated or removed. "

    I got that here >> http://www.icann.org/committees/secu...on-01dec02.htm
    I copied that from section:::
    2 Recommendations

    In this case the FROZEN means the WhoIs data will be FROZEN... whether that means the actual website will be frozen or not is unclear. But it doesn't sound like the website is put back on the list of available domains and available for purchase by another entity...


    I do not see anything that says that a domain will be put back up for sale...

    BUT - I do think that a FROZEN DOMAIN would bring the actual owner out of hiding to contact the REGISTRAR and see what is going on... and at that point the Registrar would probably just tell the person to update the WhoIs information with reliable contact info...

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Also what if the domain DNS is not pointed accurately... And it is just a 404..??
    Then even the owner would not know it was frozen in order to contact the registrar..

    I'll bet that somewhere it says something about the time limit on FROZEN domains and after a certain amount of time being frozen it is put back up for sale by the registrar...

    When you buy a domain you click a box that says you have read the ICANN REGISTER INFORMATION CONTRACT.... I'll bet it says something in there about it....

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    From GoDaddy.. probably a typical registration agreement :::::

    " 2. ACCURATE INFORMATION.
    You agree to maintain accurate information by providing updates to Go Daddy , as needed, while You are using Go Daddy s Services. You agree You will notify Go Daddy within five (5) business days when any change of the information You provided as part of the application and/or registration process changes. Failure by You, for whatever reason, to respond within five (5) business days to any inquiries made by Go Daddy to determine the validity of information provided by You will constitute a material breach of this Agreement.

    You agree that Go Daddy may use and rely on any such information provided by You for all purposes in connection with Your Services, subject to Go Daddy s Privacy Policy . If You provide any information that is inaccurate, not current, false, misleading or incomplete, or if Go Daddy has reasonable grounds to suspect that Your information is inaccurate, not current, false, misleading or incomplete, Go Daddy has the absolute right, in its sole discretion, to terminate its Services and close Your account. "

    So if your account is CLOSED... then the domain will be back up for sale...

    From This Page :::
    https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/legal..._app=&app_hdr=

  24. #24
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
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    AddHandler: I think that was to cover all GoDaddy services, but it did lead me to their more relevant Domain Name Registration Agreement which is found here .
    3. up to date information; use of information and expiration

    You agree to notify Go Daddy within five (5) business days when any of the information You provided as part of the application and/or registration process changes. It is Your responsibility to keep this information in a current and accurate status. Failure by You, for whatever reason, to provide Go Daddy with accurate and reliable information on an initial and continual basis, shall be considered to be a material breach of this agreement.
    My address has changed 3 times without me moving. What if I die? I guess we need dog tags that say in case of death notify GoDaddy.

    In regard to my initial question as to email alone for them notifying us of a breach:
    14. notices
    You agree that all notices (except for notices concerning breach of this agreement) from GoDaddy.com, Inc. to You may be posted on our web site and will be deemed delivered within thirty (30) days after posting. Notices concerning breach will be sent either to the email address You have on file with GoDaddy.com, Inc. or mailed first class postage to the postal address You have on file with GoDaddy.com, Inc.. In both cases, delivery shall be deemed to have been made five (5) days after the date sent.
    Looks like they claim that either way is ok and it's up to them. Cruel world for sure.

  25. #25
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    If you have a company Trademark (which is neither easy nor cheap to obtain) in the same name (as the domain name) in particular and the dot-com owner were to open a similar business, I believe you would have two options. You could file a suit which would not be cheap or file a UDRP (Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy) through ICANN, which I believe has a $1500 filing fee.

    So either way, unfortunately, you can be "hurting."
    Bill / Marketing Blog @ 12PM - Current project: Resurrecting my "baby" at South Baltimore..
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