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  1. #1
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    Google Adwords rip off
    I usually don't focus much attention on Adwords & let it do its thing... but I just launched a new site and, like usual, started an adwords campaign to get the ball rolling. Unfortunately, Google seems to be getting extremely greedy. I start w/ a base of $.05 or $.06 per click & check the next day and most of my keywords have been deactivated & they want $.15 per click for most! I search for some of those key words & phrases in Google & there are either very few results, or none! How the heck can they justify demanding more when there is NO competition?!?!

    So, I just hopped on live chat w/ a Google rep & this is what I found out... It only makes all this worse...

    Google determines the past history of the keyword, not how your ad performs for those keywords... The rep suggested that I up the bid to meet their absurd demands & that they may lower it, but there's no guarantee.

    They don't care that your ad may perform better than what they predict based on past history. They don't care that $.05/click is better than nothing. They don't care that zero performance is not better performance. They just don't care about their customers & denied being able to do a damn thing about it.

    I have keywords and phrases w/ absolutely no adwords ads appearing. They cannot justify, in any way, shape, or form, that they are doing me a favor by deactivating my keywords and phrases and demanding I pay more because, in their opinion, they may not, in some otherly world, perform how they want... I don't give a damn how they think my ads should perform. If there is no competition, I SHOULD NOT have to pay $.20 per click for my ads!

    At no time did the Google rep give me a valid response. The rep may "understand my frustration" but refused to do a damn thing about it. Haven't other people been able to get them to do something? Is it because I don't spend hundreds or thousands per month? Is it because I'm not a shareholder?
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  2. #2
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    welcome to the wonderful world of Google AdWords.

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Wow, if I could get decent positioning for $0.15 PC I would jump on it with every campaign I do.

    Working with G has gotten to be much more challenging, but right now they have the world by the shorts and anyone who wants to do ppc has no other real choice - so hang in there and let's see how we can make it work.
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  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager adambha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx
    Wow, if I could get decent positioning for $0.15 PC I would jump on it with every campaign I do.
    I hear ya! I've gladly paid $1+/click and know some people 'round these parts have keywords in $5+/click range.

    I feel your frustration Celicaphile, but ALH has a point, there is not much we can do about it.

    Also the main idea here is your ROI. Even if you have to pay 50 cents/click, if you are still making a descent return then it shouldn't matter. Again, there are people paying five bucks and making money, which is the primary goal.

    Another thought is that f there is zero competition for your keywords then there are probably very few (if any) people searching on them. In which case, whoever does search is a *highly qualified* prospect and worth whatever you have to pay.

    In the end, I understand your point though. Why pay more for something you should be able to get for less? I'm just trying to put a positive spin on things.

    Keep your chin up, and keep at it, you'll find a successful solution.

    Adam

  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
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    I've heard things lately that if you improve the "quality" of your landing page you'll pay less...

    I'm not sure it applies in this case, but it may be worth talking to your rep about.
    Jason Rosenbaum
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    MINDsprinting

  6. #6
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    The person I chatted w/ online at Google didn't seem willing to do anything & denied being able to "work with" customers... I just sent Google a recap of the issue and prior conversation & quoted the following false claims on their public Adwords site:

    Set your budget
    There's no minimum spending requirement--the amount you pay for AdWords is completely up to you. For example, you can set a daily budget of five dollars and choose to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked.
    ...yah, right. Liars.
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  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    anyone who wants to do ppc has no other real choice
    Baloney!
    https://secure.overture.com/s/dtc/ce...=us&lang=en_US

    Although Over has frustrations of its own, at least if they say they'll show your ad they'll show it whether you pay 10c or $5! (Rank according to bid, not whether you're one of the "in" crowd!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Celicaphile
    The rep may "understand my frustration" but refused to do a damn thing about it. Haven't other people been able to get them to do something? Is it because I don't spend hundreds or thousands per month? Is it because I'm not a shareholder?
    It's probably just because the rep is some peon with no authority. And the ones who DO have authority are hiding behind their wall of CS people, while using social pressure/office politics to discourage the CS people from actually telling them about most complaints. In this regard they're no different than a lot of corporations.


    So, I just hopped on live chat
    Ohhh...live chat. Whenever I've used "live chat" on any site, I find those to be the WORST reps the company has. I haven't used G's live chat, but from your description, they're fitting the pattern. For anything but a quickie basic question, I now email or even call a company rather than use their live-newb option.

    If there is no competition, I SHOULD NOT have to pay $.20 per click for my ads!
    Exactly!

    And I don't think that people are paying any $5/click and making money, certainly not on the aff side. And according to my figuring, merchants who are paying that are losing money in a lot of categories, too!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I agree that Yahoo / Overture has a search engine, but the traffic is minimal and the conversions are far less than G. Our G roi is many times what Y returns. That is what I meant in saying not much choice.
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  9. #9
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx
    I agree that Yahoo / Overture has a search engine, but the traffic is minimal and the conversions are far less than G. Our G roi is many times what Y returns. That is what I meant in saying not much choice.
    I've found the opposite to be true in my case. I get way more PPC traffic from Y than from G. But then, I'm not willing to have my arm & leg cut off in order to have a listing show, either!

    At 15c/click or less, AdWords usually = 0 hits.

    That's not the case at Over, for most of my keywords. They seem to have finally realized that showing blank space is not as profitable as showing even a 10c listing! (And as for the "most," it's only "most" because in some categories a cheap bid is buried and doesn't get any views, not because someone at Over saw my bid price and refused to show the ad at all...)

    Granted, there was a time Over was AT LEAST as stupid as G is being now--so stupid and with such awful customer relations that I closed my account! (I only opened a new account after I opened GoodBulbs, in the hopes that the idiot brigade had washed out of there!) But they seem to have learned some Business 101 and at least Remedial Customer Service...

    G's AdWords division, on the other hand, acts like Over used to, only with their own special brand of stupid overlaid on top of it.

  10. #10
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    Let's break down this quote from Google:

    Set your budget
    There's no minimum spending requirement--the amount you pay for AdWords is completely up to you. For example, you can set a daily budget of five dollars and choose to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked.
    1) "There's no minimum spending requirement" - Minimum spending requirement is what is required to be spent for your ad to appear, which is set by Google, regardless of whether or not my ad would be the only one on for those keywords/phrases. Google has set my minimum spending requirement at $.15 to $.20 for keywords/phrases w/ no other ads showing.

    2) "the amount you pay for AdWords is completely up to you." - The amount I pay is up to me, assuming that payment requires usage - if my ads aren't displayed, there is no payment. By stating that I CAN pay, they are granting me the ability to have my ads displayed if my bids are competitive. If there are no competing ads, then mine should show, then I can pay.

    3) "you can set a daily budget of five dollars" - I can set a daily budget but that leads a rational person to believe that it's possible for that budget to be reached, or that it exists for some logical purpose.

    4) "choose to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked" - I can choose to pay five cents per click, which, again, leads a rational person to believe that your ads have the ability to be clicked, especially if there is absolutely no competition - zero, nill, niet, nada, not a darn ad to compete with!
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  11. #11
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    And now, let's rewrite the above quote so that it's actually true:

    Set your desired budget if you're delusional & think we let you
    There may or may not be a minimum spending requirement (we'll never admit one way or the other)--the amount you would hope to pay for AdWords is completely up to you and by "you" we mean us. For example, you can wish to set a daily budget of five dollars, not that it matters, and choose to desire to pay five cents each time your ad is clicked, not that it will ever happen if we have a say in the matter.
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  12. #12
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    I have 2 gift cards for yahoo @ $50 & $75 each, although I need to deposit $100 first to get an account. I might do that but I wanted to learn adwords first but I only started 2 weeks ago and I'm also having this same problem with the minimal bid thing. I really don't want to spend much until I learn the ropes and Google are making it hard for me as many of my campaigns are not getting many impressions let alone clicks although I turned on a few more options like allow content network etc and it has picked up slightly.
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  13. #13
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    Alright going to test how long it takes for them to zap my new campaign. They killed 80% of my ads first time, more this second time. Have a brand new domain, took the keyword list from a paused campaign and started a new one to the new site. So far (5 minutes) so good

    I expect them to zap so I won't be suprised when they do.

    edit and here they come 24 minutes after this post I see someone from Google checking out the site and I already started seeing some nice traffic.

    California Mountain View Corporate/T1

    Will they zap? Will they have some Christmas spirit and let me be?
    Last edited by Trust; November 18th, 2006 at 11:13 PM.

  14. #14
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    "they want $.15 per click for most!"

    That's a lot better than the $10 I was seeing for keywords that were showing for 10 cents. But if 0 ads are showing for certain keywords and someone starts an ads for them, they should show at minimum over nothing at all.

    Amazingly my new campaign hasn't been zapped yet. Maybe they take the weekend off and will get around to me on Monday or the next time they have a landing page update, not sure. My landing pages were always fine, that's why I never understood the bids being jumped to $10.

    If nothing happens then maybe it has something to do with it being a brand new domain. Who knows.

  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I hope the gamble pays off for you Trust. If it does, you have a new option at your disposal - hopefully.
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  16. #16
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    So far still good. I started the new campaign off at 10 cents a click. Logging in today and they want higher bids for about 4% of my keywords but only 15 cents or 20 cents not the $10 and $15 they wanted for the exact same keywords for my other domain. And i'm getting good traffic from the other 96% percent of the keywords for the price I want. So we'll see how this pans out. Next weekend I'll start a few more new campaigns for the new domain.

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    If it's any help T - we did the same thing on another campaign about 5 months ago, and so far no problem. I'd say wait another week or so and then if there is no further problem, you should be good. Good luck.
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  18. #18
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    I go out of town for a few days and all keywords/phrases are deactivated. I changed it to match their BS demands before I left town. I got back last night & 100% of them are deactivated & now they want twice as much. For some of the most targeted ones there are absolutely no competing ads!!
    Let's go over this again using an example:
    I have a site, (i.e. bluewidgetforums.com) that is a forum based site about, you guessed it, blue widgets. I bid on "blue widget forums" and there are no other ads being displayed in a search. They now want $.40 instead of the $.01 I should be allowed to pay!!
    Their rep had the nerve to tell me that I need to optimize the keywords/phrases, landing page, web site, etc. better. How can a forum about blue widgets, using bluewidgetforums.com, and bidding on "blue widget forums" be any more optimized?!?
    I guess they don't see value in forum based sites, but who are they to judge if there are no competing ads? Isn't $.01 per bid better than nothing? Even the $.15 I was barely willing to spend! Now, they get nothing.
    ...sure must be nice to play god w/ billions in cash sitting around...
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  19. #19
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    In the UK we are permitted a minimum bid of 2p (4c) but hardly ever get that. However Google permit most literal keywords for as little as 3p with a few just above that (supplementary keywords relating to a product usually cost more). Very rarely do I get asked for more, except for very popular terms.

    However there is also a marked difference between websites created with stylesheets and websites created using tables. Tabled websites pay more...a lot more. Maybe cos stylesheets are more pleasing to the eye.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx
    If it's any help T - we did the same thing on another campaign about 5 months ago, and so far no problem. I'd say wait another week or so and then if there is no further problem, you should be good. Good luck.
    Still good after 2 weeks for me and it worked for you. So there's one possibility that might work. New domains. I'm going to start getting the rest that got sacked with the $10 bids on over. That's why it doesn't make much sense. First showing for 10 cents and under no problem for years (1 million+ clicks got the mini fridge). Then not good enough and bids go up to $10. Then taking the exact same keywords and taking them to pretty much the same landing page. Good again. It's like Google is bi-polar or something.

  21. #21
    Web Ho - Design B!tch ~Michelle's Avatar
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    Just posted this in a new thread cause I missed this one. To late to delete the other now too. whoops!

    ------------------------------

    I got a deal in the mail for an Adwords credit on a new account.

    I set up a new account, set up my ad and for every single keyword/phrase it wants a 10.00 minimum bid.

    So out of curiousity, I checked my other existing adwords account. In the new account I set up and identical ad, used identical keywords and once again it wants a min. 10.00 on keywords that I am paying .05 and .10 for in my other account!

    They are obviously scamming!

    Anyone else have similar results? Anyone know a way to get around this?

    -----------------------------

    I also just created a weird off the wall phrase to see what it would say - of course they wanted a min or 10.00 for 'ugly dog with poop on its feet'.
    ~Michelle
    "All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy."
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  22. #22
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I did something similar under another program domain several months ago and although the bid amounts required were not $10 - the duplicate account under another domain was calling for bids that were far more than on the old account. It does make you scratch your head.

    All in all though, our click costs have been going down again due to better keyword targeting, ad group segregation, day parsing, ad optimization and separate search and content campaigns.
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  23. #23
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    Don't assume that those initial $5 or $10 requirements at AdWords are the real thing.

    I just set up a new Adwords campaign, and all the keywords immediately appeared requesting $5 minimum bids. I just left the bids at low amounts. When I checked in a day later, I had a small number of exposures listed even though the keywords were still shown as inactive. Over the next few days, all but one of the keywords dropped the minimum bid requirement, and they're now listed as active at the lower bid amount.

    Maybe Google does this by default in particular markets? I'm sure AdWords pros around here can probably shed some light on how this works.

  24. #24
    Newbie carundell's Avatar
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    Hmm,
    My 2 cents .... on google

    1. If you direct link your done!

    2. If you have a, say review page and a landing page then link to a merchant, you pay too much..

    3. IF......you set up your own "mini site" say for example:

    goobercandy.com then:

    goobercandy.com/index.html
    goobercany.com/goobercandyrecipes.html
    goobercandy.com/goobercandytools.html
    goobercandy.com/goobercandyingredients.html
    goobercandy.cam/contact.html
    goobercandy.com/info.html

    Then say 3 goobercandy recipes reviews all linked
    3 goobercandy tools "
    3 goober candy ingredients "
    ETC ..... see where this is goin'?

    THEN:
    on the info page you write (and submit elsewhere too) articles about goobercandy!

    IMO ...... content, content, content ...... google wants to make the "experience" better for the "user". So ...... we have to make it better! which means allot of work for us all, but in the long run, isn't it worth it?

    I wish I could claim credit for this, but a mentor of mine got it right AND is first page w/ very little adspend. IMO folks ...... off to the races!

    Chris

  25. #25
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    "1. If you direct link your done!"

    I don't direck link myself, don't have a problem with it. But people who do, say that works, one of the type of PPC ads that weren't affected by the $10 bid deal.

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