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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Google, Yahoo, MSN Make our lives easier
    I will leave the article to 'splain things.

    Does anyone think this will be a big deal?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061116...tyleusinternet
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  2. #2
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    I read that but didn't quite understand what the big deal is. I've always used sitemaps, they're just pages with links. So search engines have never had a problem crawling and indexing my sites.

  3. #3
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I agree it is a non issue
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  4. #4
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    Though I may be a bit paranoid, I never submit a site map to Google for any of my sites. Google supposedly wants to serve up natural search results without webmasters figuring out how to job the rankings, so if I send them a site map, I am announcing that I am a webmaster and hence am trying to job the rankings. If I can't set up my internal links and the links coming to my site in a way to get my whole site regularly indexed, then I should find another way to make money than webmastering. Just my 2 pennies

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Never -Ever submit any .XML sitemap file to any Search Engine if your existing site is already indexed and has PR rank. Guaranteed to get you into the supplimental black hole, especially if site scrapers target your content. Only benefit is for sites with dynamic generated content or shopping cart pages totally blind to regular SE BOT indexing.
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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    I read that but didn't quite understand what the big deal is. I've always used sitemaps, they're just pages with links. So search engines have never had a problem crawling and indexing my sites.
    I think this is talking about the Google Sitemaps tool. This is where you provide a file on your server for Google to explicitly parse. You can log in to their system to find out when Google last spidered each page listed in your sitemap file. It's not in HTML format.

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  7. #7
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    This is a joint effort among the search engines, and one sitemap will do it all. Announced by Tim Mayer and Vanessa Fox this week, the new web site:

    http://www.sitemap.org

  8. #8
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    I try not to have search engine stuff on my site as much as possible, exception being Adsense No site map stuff, no free stats program etc. They have enough free info from me.
    Last edited by Trust; November 17th, 2006 at 02:45 AM. Reason: better attempt at the english language

  9. #9
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    I am naturally suspecious when the top dogs of a specialized field get together to combine forces. I rank higher on some search engines than others. My Google rank and MSN pretty ok but way down on others.

    I like the idea of competition is good for business. The other search engines see the power Google has mustered and don't want to become out dated or left behind - Google is moving so fast, I think they want to jump on the band wagon. Does this make me a horrible person

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dealposter
    I am naturally suspecious when the top dogs of a specialized field get together to combine forces. I rank higher on some search engines than others. My Google rank and MSN pretty ok but way down on others.

    I like the idea of competition is good for business. The other search engines see the power Google has mustered and don't want to become out dated or left behind - Google is moving so fast, I think they want to jump on the band wagon. Does this make me a horrible person
    A "horrible person?!" Heck no--using your sense is a GOOD thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by WRYoung
    Though I may be a bit paranoid, I never submit a site map to Google for any of my sites. Google supposedly wants to serve up natural search results without webmasters figuring out how to job the rankings, so if I send them a site map, I am announcing that I am a webmaster and hence am trying to job the rankings.
    I agree completely. I've never put up a special sitemap file either, for just that reason! It might as well be called derank-this.txt as far as I'm concerned.

  11. #11
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    It might as well be called derank-this.txt

    LMAO, it is always good to start the day laughing, thanks Leader

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecomcity
    Never -Ever submit any .XML sitemap file to any Search Engine if your existing site is already indexed and has PR rank. Guaranteed to get you into the supplimental black hole, especially if site scrapers target your content. Only benefit is for sites with dynamic generated content or shopping cart pages totally blind to regular SE BOT indexing.
    I have thought about this as well, I'm very suspicous but I do find I can get sites with thousands of dynamic pages running datafeeds indexed within days as long as a few other basics are covered. I'm not sure how good the rankings they dish out on these pages are though... lots of testing to be done next year on this sort of thing....

    added:
    I have to say though I'm quite interested in this as Google do have a great interface and stats for your sites once submitted into your sitemap/sites account, I have sitemaps, xml pages, rss feeds all included and I can get stats and readouts on data which is very helpful (not that I have a lot of time to read it all yet). I would like to see this been a standard but as long as it does not hurt our rankings. The main thing I'm worried about is if they see I have xxx many sites and thousands of affiliate links by checking my profile and sites then who knows what they might do?
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  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Thanks for the opinions here gang. Interestingly enough, I've been sitting on a long Google survey / questionaire they sent me last week, and finally at 5 am this morning I took an hour or so out of my schedule to do a thorough job of completing it.

    I also added many comments regarding concerns I have about the quality scoring system, content search, ROI, customer service useful knowledge, and the many changes this year that have substantially affected our ROI.

    Though part of me saw it as nothing more than a PR gesture, and part of me doubts that G listens much anymore, the other part of me (the part that always searches for the positive in any situation) led me to take the time to respond and offer input.

    It will be interesting to see what if anything comes from advertiser input this go around, but unless we voice our concerns in numbers, we will never know. So much is going on with G these days - hopefully they can still get in touch with the values that got them here, and hopefully they still listen to their customers. We'll see.
    Last edited by ALH - AmeritrustRx; November 17th, 2006 at 10:08 AM. Reason: typo
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  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    It might as well be called derank-this.txt as far as I'm concerned.
    Like anything else, there are differing opinions on this.

    We have affiliates and I know of others who simple swear by sitemaps as a way to move UP the rankings faster.

    There is probably some inherent risk, but I think if you follow basic site building and SEO techniques and don't spam the engines, sitemaps may be of some help.

    It is most likely a wash though!
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  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    I've also figured that if I have good internal and external links for my visitors to navigate, then a SE bot should be able to do the same. But, I wonder about this part:

    "A Sitemap is a website file that acts as a marker for search engines to "crawl" certain pages. It allows webmasters to list their online addresses, called "URLs," along with data such as the last time the page was updated."

    Could this have to do with bot collecting the page updating data? There have been some discussions here about the importance of updating pages regularly. I've noticed some of my pages drop in rank, then I update and it's back up in again in a couple days.
    ~Ernie

  16. #16
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    There's quite a bit of old discussion here about it, from back when Google introduced sitemap files. I use them, and have seen no real difference or perhaps a slight increase. I figure if it helps them understand my site better, it's worth it. It took me less than an hour to build a script to generate it, and now it keeps itself updated automatically.

    I guess it all depends on whether you consider search engines adversaries or potential partners. Myself, I figure having my pages indexed properly helps me, the search engine, and our mutual customers. I don't think the search engines (especially Google) always agree, but that's just the way it goes.
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  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
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    I can't say is sitemaps help or hurt, but the information provided on google sitemap tool is really nice. It'll tell you how often the robot visits, warn you of broken links and other server errors, show you what keywords the spider thinks your site is aiming for and what keywords users find your site with. This can really help targeting your SEO efforts and your PPC keywords.

    As for the original article, I'm all for standards, they make everyone's life easier. It just means I can use one sitemap xml file for every search engine as opposed to a bunch of incompatible formats.
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  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    I've been using sitemaps for Google and urllist.txt for Yahoo. So far, my sites are being visited on a regular basis, without any problems (assumption - hard to say if more pages would be indexed, or rank better with or without one).

    As for sitemaps being bad...is there any documentation/posts from a respectable source that says this? It's an interesting concept, and has me thinking twice now.

  19. #19
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    The problem with documenting anything to do with seo is that the cause/effect relationship is almost never instant, and unless something is the ONLY thing that has been done to or changed on a site, you can't be 100% sure of many things.

    I don't have any documentation, but I do personaly know a few people that have had problems after submitting a site map to Google. These were webmasters in the gambling area, where i used to work, but I can not say that the site map was the problem 100%.

    My opinion is that every little piece helps, and if there is any chance I will have a problem after submitting a site map, and I can get indexed without it, why would I take the chance. As always, just my opinion, I make mistakes every day, so take it for what it is worth.

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    I've been using sitemaps for Google and urllist.txt for Yahoo. So far, my sites are being visited on a regular basis, without any problems (assumption - hard to say if more pages would be indexed, or rank better with or without one).

    As for sitemaps being bad...is there any documentation/posts from a respectable source that says this? It's an interesting concept, and has me thinking twice now.
    Go read the official Google site map forum threads and try and find anyone who ever recovered from mistakingly submitting one on an indexed site.
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  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Ok cool..i'll go read the official posts. Not one person recovered? That's crazy.

  22. #22
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    Also they require them to be in xml format. If they allowed text format I'd be much more willing.

  23. #23
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    "We have affiliates and I know of others who simple swear by sitemaps as a way to move UP the rankings faster."

    Talking about 2 different things. Most people already have site maps. This is nothing new. It's just links to other pages on your site. Why would you need this? And it has nothing to do with moving up in the rankings. It's just so the spiders can find all your pages, that's all.

  24. #24
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    I did use a text google site map on one site and eventually, it did help my pages get indexed. I have heard of the site map delisting a site as well. Why this would happen I have no idea.

    The search engines results are getting more and more bloated with garbage. The more garbage, the more the BIG Search Engines penalize sites with me getting caught in the crossfire. There is only one sure fire way to Google/Yahoo/MSN-Proof your site and that is to make it so popular that even these party-spoilers can't wreck it. Use a wide variety of promotion methods in addition to SERPS like quality inbound traffic-generating links, blogs, forums, emails, and other advertising.

    I hardly even count on SERPS these days except for those that are a natural result of my sites popularity that was generated via alternative means.
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  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "We have affiliates and I know of others who simple swear by sitemaps as a way to move UP the rankings faster."

    Talking about 2 different things. Most people already have site maps. This is nothing new. It's just links to other pages on your site. Why would you need this? And it has nothing to do with moving up in the rankings. It's just so the spiders can find all your pages, that's all.
    Sorry, I was referring to Google sitemaps
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