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  1. #1
    15 years and counting
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    personalcreations.com, check your stats
    Do you think all your orders for Personal Creations are reported at LinkShare?
    Think Again!
    Personal Creations is associated with Second Bite to steal your cookies.
    Well the left over are stolen, they took care already of your sales with a first bite of LiveHelp.
    To see Second Bite at work:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=81953
    More about Personal Creations/ Second Bite relationship:
    http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061009/20061009005155.html?.v=1
    "We're seeing an increasing number of online customers who add items to their shopping carts, only to abandon them before completing the sale," said Nick Martin, affiliate marketing manager with Personal Creations and one of Second Bite's early adopters.

    If you think, it's only a minor problem, and it's not going to decrease your affiliate earning, Think Again:
    Straight from the horse's mouth:
    "Two weeks after going live with Secondbite, Personal Creations had become one of its top five affiliates in terms of sales."
    How much of that money was YOURS?

    LinkShare, get ready to GIVE US BACK our money!

    Are you going to promote them during the holiday season?

  2. #2
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    No, I'm not. Just took down all their links...
    Men, I love you guys. Thanks for pointing out those bad apples...

  3. #3
    Advocate mellie's Avatar
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    I just signed up for them the other day. They have several items I need on my sites. Guess I have to look for replacement already. Glad I didn't put links up yet.

  4. #4
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    I pulled Personal Creations about a year and a half ago. First they started with Live Chat, and then it was one thing after another.

    Before that they converted very well, but conversions totally tanked, and I ripped out their links.

    Lily

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Second bite has a sister site that cleans up after the LiveHelp folks fail during the merchant site browsing "incentive speal"... teleCPA http://www.thinkpartnership.com/second-bite.aspx so both e-mail cookied post sale closing efforts, using privacy info, and then a phone call followup...

    Merchant sits back and lets the sleazeballs hound the shoppers into submission. Meanwhile those e-mail/Phone #'s come in handy to push competitor products for affiliate commissions and peddling to the IAB/DMA membership.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  6. #6
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    What would be fun would be to find a class action lawsuit firm to go after any and every merchant who uses Second Bite, on behalf of their other affiliates. Starting a few of those would nip this in the bud quickly.

    This is blatant fraud, and I'm not sure what other options there are to get it stopped.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TI Master
    This is blatant fraud, and I'm not sure what other options there are to get it stopped.
    It's up to each of us to do something. Your post on Taylor Gifts was the start. Thanks again.
    Yes, it's big time fraud organized by the networks. That's as bad as a bank robbery. I'm sure our Enrom CEO is sad to be alone in his cell.
    I did contact a few journalists already. It's a nice Christmas story to cover.
    Call your friends, one of them, may know somebody at CNN or a journalist at 60 minutes. We need to inform the authorities on how a few executives in charge of these networks are able to divert our money.
    Let's expose the merchants using Second Bite. May be they need free advertisement during the holidays.

  8. #8
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb
    Taylor Gifts shows a converseon email addy, wonder what converseon's take on all this is . . .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herb ԿԬ
    Taylor Gifts shows a converseon email addy, wonder what converseon's take on all this is . . .
    "Jamie Birch is Director of Affiliate Relations for Converseon, Inc. Converseon is a leading digital communications agency designed to provide innovative communications solutions that leverage the digital environment. Converseon utilizes a range of cutting edge services - including brand monitoring, search and word-of-mouth marketing, blog/RSS strategies, affiliate and search marketing and more - to help manage end product company's brands, build buzz, drive sales and engage target audiences in "conversation."

    Jamie Birch did the right thing. Too bad he doesn't participate at ABW but he must be watching what's going on here.
    In no time, Second Bite was deactivated from Taylor Gifts.

    Now, the next step is to have Second Bite deactivated from CJ, LS & other networks.

  10. #10
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    Did you see one of their services at Converseon?
    Conversation Miner.
    What's the buzz? Who's talking about you and what are they saying? Our Conversation Miner service utilizes proprietary tools to monitor the online conversation about your brand.

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Hopefully my 1 hour conversation with a San Jose reporter last night will produce some media buzz on these commission sharks hardwired into the merchants shopping carts. Privacy info peddling and cross merchant promotions has to fit right into this scheme. I see teleCPA is a sister company of Secondbite doing telemarketing for the lead merchant's tagging their forms.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    Did you see one of their services at Converseon?
    Conversation Miner.
    What's the buzz? Who's talking about you and what are they saying? Our Conversation Miner service utilizes proprietary tools to monitor the online conversation about your brand.
    hopefully that's just another 'bot that passes through.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    After reading this I wrote to the affiliate manager at Personal Creations and I gave him the link to this post. I heard back from him and he said that they are pausing the SecondBite program and suspending any further remarketing from them.

  14. #14
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Talking
    I received it too . . it's a healthy choice on their part.

  15. #15
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Hi Billy,

    Effective today, we are pausing the SecondBite program and suspending any further remarketing from them.

    Thanks,
    Nick
    Nick told me the same thing! He's OK in my book

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    Nick told me the same thing! He's OK in my book
    Did you ask him to reverse the commissions earned by Second Bite during the last 11 months and credit back the right affiliates?

    If you believe they were abused by Second Bite, do you mind to ask Nick to pressure LinkShare to deactivate them. How many of your LinkShare merchants are still infested? You don't know and I don't know either. 300 merchants, that's quite a lot.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    Oh good Feel good now that I wrote him and a whole lot better having the links on my site Really feel good that you guys posted too. Now I don't feel like I'm just being naive to have done so

  18. #18
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus
    Did you ask him to reverse the commissions earned by Second Bite during the last 11 months and credit back the right affiliates?
    since the instances happened with "abandoned" shopping carts, would it be possible to go back somehow and see who got screwed? Interesting question . . .

  19. #19
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Zeus,

    I don't know who the 300 merchants are - but as people find them - and it is one of MY merchants, I contact them.

    The odds were against me.

    The 2nd bite site's testimonal page was from Nick.

    And I contacted some industry pros before emailing Nick, and they said it's would be an uphill battle - technically, there's no forced click or any other TOS violation.

    But it was one short email, and Nick did the right thing. Uh... the hard thing! Looks like there's a lot of money to be made (at our expense) by sending those cart abandonment emails.

    Nick's only been at PCA about 2 months, but so far, every time I've contacted him with an issue, he's come thru for me.

  20. #20
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    Billy - I don't know who the 300 merchants are - but as people find them - and it is one of MY merchants, I contact them.
    I was unable to attend a few meetings last year, in Vegas, Orlando and this one in San Francisco:
    http://www.linkshare.com/summit/peop...tnermaker.html
    During these meetings, you can participate at some pretty amazing discussions. Todd Martini was there, may be he heard something.
    One LinkShare merchant with a relationship with Second Bite:
    Zales: http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=82000
    Thanks for contacting Personal Creations. It was fast.

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