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  1. #1
    Verbosely Virtuous Mutt spacedog's Avatar
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    Pros and cons of joining a CPA network?
    I've never joined one (i.e. on the affiliate side since that's what I am), but lately I've looked at a few CPA networks to see what they're about. They seem to have a lot of merchant partnerships that also exist in the big networks like CJ, LS and SAS. But they also seem to use a different structure of payment than the big guys by using CPA, where A = acquisition. Also they often pay more frequently. Looking at the amounts of each payout, they appear to beat the big guys too.

    My questions:

    Is there an inherent advantage to joining a CPA network rather than just going through the big affiliate networks? Inherent disadvantages? Skip the CPAs completely because they're corrupt and parasitic in general?

    Also, I guess I don't understand the dynamics of the CPAs and their merchants. It seems counterintuitive that even though they act as an additional middleman between affiliates and merchants, they can offer a higher payout, especially considering that the CPA network takes a percentage for themselves from every affiliate sale. How can they do this and still offer a higher payout? Do they make special arrangements with merchants that use the big guys (CJ, etc) and do business outside the affiliate network?

    I'm quite wary of these CPA networks based on some of the things I've read here (parasitic merchants in their networks, corrupt practices, etc). I want to get an idea of what I'd be dealing with if I decide to affiliate with them. It'd be easier to just keep dealing with merchants on the big networks as well as direct relationships. Any thoughts from affiliates here with CPA experience would be helpful and appreciated.

  2. #2
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    A CPA network is also an affiliate. So, when you join a CPA network, you are allowing a competitor to see your site, how you do things and other methods you might utilize.

    Many (I said MANY, not all) CPA networks are a cover for an affiliate to use adware and steal from the merchants they are associated with and blame it on a rogue affiliate, while others take all the information they get from a lead and call, SPAM and pound these people with snail spam. I have even seen a CPA network that has a model of calling the customer's neighbors, mailing them and generally pushing ethics to the point where it makes you want to , all from Canada so they are not subject to US calling restrictions etc.

    While they do have their place in the market, if you are going to work primarily with CPA networks, I would buy lottery tickets instead.

  3. #3
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    i think a lot of CPA networks push lots of spam. I get CPA networks approaching me every other day and their pitch is affiliates, PPC, pop-up/under and finally email marketing.. some say that they have a clean opt in list but probing further, they are unable to explain how they acquire the list.. some rely on their affiliate's policy to manage how they generate the list

    CPA gets their $$ through the performance of their affiliates so I know quite a few are pushing affiliates to make a sale/lead/etc without much ethical concern.

    Just go directly to the merchant via the big 4 network

  4. #4
    CPA Network Rep JP Sauve's Avatar
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    Hey SpaceDog. CPA or not CPA... that is the question.

    Before I give my list of CPA network myths, let me just say that CPA networks are indeed not for all affiliates. If you run content loaded websites, you might find little success with CPA and would be better suited to stick with CPM or Adsense style advertising. (Message boards, blogs, articles). If your website is specifically geared to send surfers to the sponsor (loyalty programs, free stuff websites, etc), CPA is probably best for you. If you run a website which pushes a catalog of products from a variety of sponsors, going with an Affiliate Network is probably your best bet. From 9 years of experience in this business, I can say that usually these affiliate types don't mesh well. An affiliate doing well on CPA won't touch shopping cart affiliate programs, and those who see fantastic results with product-catalog type merchants balk at how horrible CPA networks are. You can ask if CPA in general is bad on boards like ABW, but you'll usually only see one side of the affiliate coin... from people who honestly have little experience dealing with CPA networks... and repeat what they've heard and not what they know. Your best bet is to match your sponsorship to the type of website you run.


    In defense of CPA networks, here are some myths for you....


    MYTH: CPA networks are just middle men and you should just work through an affiliate program instead.

    TRUTH. Most affiliate programs are run though a network, be it LinkShare, CJ, or elsewhere. These networks charge the advertiser fees, 30% in the case of CJ. Most CPA networks make deals with these merchants outside of their affiliate network, outside CJ if you will, and avoid these 30% fees. The CPA network will keep a margin too, but it's usually significantly lower than 30%. This is part of the reason why CPA networks can give you a higher payout than doing "direct" through the affiliate network. You can in theory go outside of the affiliate network and work direct yourself, be like a CPA network, but most affiliates don't command the volume needed for direct deals.


    MYTH: CPA networks only deal with spammers

    TRUTH: Like it or not, email marketing is a legit business. The gov't passed the CanSpam law a couple years ago which defined how affiliates could use email marketing, set rules in place to follow, and if the marketer follows these rules, he's not a spammer. Most CPA networks do not tolerate real spam. Beyond whether it's right or wrong, doing business with spammers will get your ISP shut down, risk litigation, and cause all kinds of nightmares. True spam, the Viagra and porn stuff, don't follow any of the CanSpam rules and you'll notice don't run through CPA networks. There are of course exceptions to the rules, some networks are more gray area than others, but they are the exception. So how did CPA networks get this bad reputation? Most CPA network, ourselves included, are run by companies that started out in email marketing. Like anything, there are exceptions, like networks with bad histories in email, but most were/are legit email marketing companies. Unfortunately some unlearned affiliates label all commercial email as spam.


    MYTH: CPA network are just a front for adware.

    TRUTH: Adware is problem for everyone, be it a CPA network or an affiliate network. There is as much adware in big affiliate networks as elsewhere. The sad honest truth is that these adware companies are so big now, command so much traffic, most strike direct deals with the end merchants and don't use any networks at all, be it CPA network or otherwise. Again, there are exceptions, but most affiliates in CPA networks are just normal publishers earning via their website/newsletter/search engine marketing, small businessmen just trying to run a legit business.


    MYTH: The merchant would rather you join his affiliate program.

    TRUTH: While this is sometimes true, it's not always the case. MANY merchants run an affiliate program as an afterthought and would rather not deal with individual publishers. They start their program on a big network like CJ simply to access CJ's large pool of existing affiliates, not out of a want to run an affiliate program, and have no interest in dealing with individual affiliates. They set their program on auto-approve, and do nothing other than let traffic roll in. It's far easier to manage working with 5 CPA networks who have a total of 10,000 affiliates than working with those 10,000 affiliates direct in an affiliate program. In many cases, it's no work at all for the merchant to run with a CPA network. They just give the network a landing URL and watch traffic come in. At the end of the day, most merchants just want as much traffic as possible, be it from their affiliate program or a CPA network... or most usually a combination of both.



    Your best bet is not to judge CPA networks as a whole, but research some individual networks, and see who comes out clean. So what are the inherent advantages of going with a CPA network like our MaxBounty.com? Higher payout rates in most cases, and certainly better payment terms. Fresh new campaigns come available daily. It's almost guaranteed your CPA Network affiliate manager will be more proactive in assisting you, and certainly easier to reach.

    OK, so who wants to step in and flame me? It'll have to be quick though, our Christmas party is later today and we're leaving the office early.

    .
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  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacedog
    Also, I guess I don't understand the dynamics of the CPAs and their merchants. It seems counterintuitive that even though they act as an additional middleman between affiliates and merchants, they can offer a higher payout, especially considering that the CPA network takes a percentage for themselves from every affiliate sale. How can they do this and still offer a higher payout? Do they make special arrangements with merchants that use the big guys (CJ, etc) and do business outside the affiliate network?
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.p...&postcount=129

  6. #6
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    "The gov't passed the CanSpam law a couple years ago which defined how affiliates could use email marketing, set rules in place to follow, and if the marketer follows these rules, he's not a spammer."

    To people receiving the spam they are.

  7. #7
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    Ok i have to throw in my two sents. as to Why CPA networks are good.

    1. I want to run a promotion for Website X that is a CPA they are signing up for some club or soemthing like that, that is free. well they will only pay me 1.00 per signup. But i look through maxbounty, or some other CPA network and find out they will pay me 1.50 per sign up... Why you may ask, Due to VOLUME as maxbounty or another CPA network can promise volume and get a higher rate where you going direct, unless you can prove massive volume will never even get close to that payout.

    2. Why deal with 100's of seperate merchants when you can have 1 account and work with them all. Plus as stated before you USUALLY get higher rates with the CPA network.

    3. I have dealt with both direct and CPA networks. I have done away with all my directs and gone completely to CPA networks. Did i do away with adsense etc. No i use CPA in addition to those, why JUST make money off adsense when you can make money off adsense and CPA networks. as many sites i earn 10x's as much just by running tsome CPA offers in addition to adsense..

    Don't knock down CPA networks untill you try them... you could be missing a pot of gold!

  8. #8
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Or you could be pissing in a pot of mold. Note I said "could". When you run with thieves, bad things happen. So run clean. How do you determine which ones are clean? It's impossible, cuz there's no transparency. So avoid the haystack altogether instead of searching for the needle.

    I have seen cases where a CPA network offers more commission than the merchant pays to the CPA network itself... any guesses on how that can be possible?

    If they're a super affiliate themselves, think about why they would waste all their time on affiliates from A to Z...

    And consider the sources of people who post here... xboxundone's public ABW profile lists home site as: cpa-affiliates.com
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; December 5th, 2006 at 12:53 PM. Reason: removed hotlink

  9. #9
    CPA Network Rep Joe Lilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Or you could be pissing in a pot of mold. Note I said "could". When you run with thieves, bad things happen. So run clean. How do you determine which ones are clean? It's impossible, cuz there's no transparency. So avoid the haystack altogether instead of searching for the needle.
    [/url]
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  10. #10
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP Sauve (emphasis by Michael)
    Like it or not, email marketing is a legit business. The gov't passed the CanSpam law a couple years ago which defined how affiliates could use email marketing, set rules in place to follow, and if the marketer follows these rules, he's not a spammer. Most CPA networks do not tolerate real spam.
    It my be legal, but that doesn't make it legit. CAN-SPAM doesn't restrict spamming, it just regulates it. Most CPA networks love (complaint) spam, as long as they can monetize it.

    Most people define spam as bulk unsolicited email. CAN-SPAM allows people to send bulk unsolicted email (i.e. spam) as long as they follow certain rules. To say that you're not spamming if you follow CAN-SPAM rules is deceptive and flat out wrong.
    Michael Coley
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  11. #11
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    A spammer is a spammer is a spammer. Whether it is filling Google with garbitrage sites, sending Viagra email to everyone under the sun (my Mom doesn't need anymore guys, she has plenty), sending snail spam by the pound, telemarketing or any other kind of intrusive, uninvited marketing act.

    History has shown that those who engage in these acts are generally known as the scum of the industry no matter what industry they are in. In affiliate marketing, it has become the CPA networks who took over pushing the limits and seeing how far they can push it with no concerns of being recognized as crooks by their peers.

    Are they all bad? NO! Can the average affiliate really know who is bad and who is clean? No. If a clean CPA network cross publishes offers from all the others and everyone is running everyone's offers, the bad guys ruin it for those who try to stay clean. A parasite on another network that pops and resets the cookie, therefore negating the existing cookie that was set on the clean network, is still a parasite and the end result is still the same.

    That is too bad. The whole notion of affiliates being able to band together to collectively demand better rates etc. is appealing to everyone. Unfortunately, greed took over and now Direct Track and others have become a cespool of scammers, spammers and those who belong in the slammer because there is zero visibilty and everyone can point the finger at another.

    It takes Kellie Stevens hours to find the real deal on one transaction where redirects are used to hide the cheaters. Millions of these transactions take place daily so even a team of 100 Kellie Stevens' could not keep up.

    You guys dive right out there and run your CPA offers. Know that every time one of your visitors enters their info that they will now be spammed, junk-mailed, called and their neighbors will be contacted and no doubt told what they bought in an effort to sell them one. God help your visitor if they give these CPA networks their credit card information. That's another whole downline of spammy activity for them to endure and this time their credit standing and financial information is in the hands of the seedy side of the industry. If you are cool with subjecting your customers to that, all I can say is have at it. You can make a good living stealing cars too, but that is wrong.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Or you could be pissing in a pot of mold. Note I said "could". When you run with thieves, bad things happen. So run clean. How do you determine which ones are clean? It's impossible, cuz there's no transparency. So avoid the haystack altogether instead of searching for the needle.

    I have seen cases where a CPA network offers more commission than the merchant pays to the CPA network itself... any guesses on how that can be possible?

    If they're a super affiliate themselves, think about why they would waste all their time on affiliates from A to Z...

    And consider the sources of people who post here... xboxundone's public ABW profile lists home site as: cpa-affiliates.com

    *LOL* this post makes me laugh as you say there is no trasparency...... you tell me that google or any other mechant/advertiser/publisher program out there is transparent... *LOL* you won't find one cause if they were trasparent everyone would do it and make money.... As far as where CPA network offers more commision than the merchant pays.... well that is what they pay to general public as i stated in my post these networks can do VOLUME and in turn request a larger chunk. The reason they "waste" there time on affiliates a to Z as with any market it you only promote one thing it will eventually get saturated... so you want to diversify.

    Yes i do run cpa-affiliates.com.
    I have no problem don't consider running CPA offers or signup for CPA networks as that is less competition on my end. While there are affiliates out there that DO run email search engine spam etc... and make a lot of monety there are also plenty of LEGIT ways, which the legit ways have more long temr payout. As with any affiliate you are providing a service to the customer on behalf of the merchant.... If you are with a Pay per sale network it is the exact same thing.....
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; December 5th, 2006 at 12:54 PM. Reason: No need for the hotlinks

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    You guys dive right out there and run your CPA offers. Know that every time one of your visitors enters their info that they will now be spammed, junk-mailed, called and their neighbors will be contacted and no doubt told what they bought in an effort to sell them one. God help your visitor if they give these CPA networks their credit card information. That's another whole downline of spammy activity for them to endure and this time their credit standing and financial information is in the hands of the seedy side of the industry. If you are cool with subjecting your customers to that, all I can say is have at it. You can make a good living stealing cars too, but that is wrong.
    *LOL* so everytime somone asks for a service or signs up for it and gets contacted about that service you call that spam... man where does that definition come from. Sorry but it is no different when you gather a persons info from a sale and send them a coupon later it is the EXACT same thing. as they asked to be notified about that service.

  14. #14
    CPA Network Rep JP Sauve's Avatar
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    Publishers that succeed with affiliate networks generally don't like CPA networks, and vice versa. They're both great ways to make money, and cater to affiliates with different advertising models.
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  15. #15
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP Sauve
    Publishers that succeed with affiliate networks generally don't like CPA networks, and vice versa.
    Got any insights into the reasoning behind this conclusion?

  16. #16
    CPA Network Rep JP Sauve's Avatar
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    Probably because of the different nature of the advertisers. Affiliate network merchants usually equate to per-sale programs. CPA Network ads usually run per-lead programs. A publisher adept at generating leads has a very different website model then the affiliate running merchant feeds of full product catalogs.

    Part of the difference is that CPA affiliates often run short term campaigns and update these ads frequently (in most cases, the ads ARE content on their website), whereas the affiliate network pub is looking for a longer term stable program due to the nature of their website. A freebie website (CPA pub) wants new sponsors everday, and a link on their website might stop earning after a week or two. A shopping comparison website (Affiliate Network pub) wants a long term sponsor and while they might generate smaller volumes of traffic, they'll earn from that partnership for a long period of time, potentially years.

    One model isn't necessarily better than the other. They are just a fit for different types of merchants and different types of surfers. Both have large long term earning potential.

    Back to the original question though - I'd never discount CPA Networks. If you have the type of website which will do well with CPA, and you stick to affiliate networks, you're probably not earning to your full potential.
    Last edited by JP Sauve; December 2nd, 2006 at 08:53 PM.
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  17. #17
    Verbosely Virtuous Mutt spacedog's Avatar
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    Some great insight, guys. Thanks! Looks like there is clearly no black and white answer to this one. I'll examine my business model further; it's actually still emerging and not clearly defined yet.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xboxundone
    *LOL* so everytime somone asks for a service or signs up for it and gets contacted about that service you call that spam
    No. But if someone fills out a form expecting to get something for free or for more information on a product, then they get hundreds of emails promoting everything from toy cars to penis enlargement, that is SPAM pure and simple. Explain it away all you want. You know what you are doing.

  19. #19
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    then they get hundreds of emails promoting everything from toy cars to penis enlargement, that is SPAM pure and simple.
    Scoots - Heck, after hearing "guy talk" for 50 + years, there isn't a guy in the world who needs enlargement - so that would definitely be spam.
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  20. #20
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    JP, i do see the points you made but disagree somewhat in the nature of the underlying differences. you focused primarily (but not exclusively) on the publishers website differences. i see the main difference as traffic sources and techniques (and the site differences are just a reflection of that, not necessarily the nature of the advertiser or publisher).

    If you have the type of website which will do well with CPA, and you stick to affiliate networks, you're probably not earning to your full potential.
    if they tried cpa stuff and it worked, they'd know already. if it didn't work, they'd also know. so i assume you're encouraging those who aren't currently doing cpa-type stuff, to consider trying it... and you point out that if they have a site that will do well with cpa stuff... so... how would someone in those shoes recognize that their site is the type that will do well with CPA stuff?

  21. #21
    CPA Network Rep JP Sauve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    ...how would someone in those shoes recognize that their site is the type that will do well with CPA stuff?
    Pubs that do well on CPA typically have websites where all or most of the content of the website are ads. I'm not talking about just a page loaded with banners, but the content of the website are mostly sponsored links. People visit these sites with the intent on clicking on links. I keep mentioning a freebie website, but it's the perfect example. Free stuff websites use the various CPA ads as the content on their site, in many cases it's the sole content. Same with simply incentive websites.

    While the same is true of coupon and cash-back loyalty programs, because they target online shopping, they more geared to affiliate networks where the merchants are shopping cart type programs with a variety of products for sale.
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  22. #22
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  23. #23
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    JP, while my experience-worn gut reply is just like Adam Ward's, we both know that's also because I make sites unlike the well-suited-for-CPA-type-stuff you described. I appreciate your candor as well as your insights in this mini sidebar discussion. I am delighted to read your posts, they are very unlike your peers in the CPA world.

    This is a very self-centric observation, but with your smarts and directness and demeanor, I could see you being very succesful in the non-CPA world.

    Now, back to the general CPA bashing... :-)

  24. #24
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    Yep, all freebie pushers should read that. "Sometimes the price of free is just too high"
    There's no free lunch. And these CPA networks are just helping others to spread adware and spyware for a few bucks.

  25. #25
    CPA Network Rep JP Sauve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    JP.... I could see you being very succesful in the non-CPA world.
    :-)

    Aw shucks.

    I'm sure we'd do OK on that side of the business, but that's not our bag. It's not just me here, but the 2 owners and staff. As is we're 100% occupied trying to run the best CPA network. No time for anything else.... and no real need to branch out actually. There's ample opportunity to earn on CPA, just as limitless as with non-CPA merchants I suppose. Any extra time we'd put in trying to develop affiliate websites would just take away from our growth of MaxBounty.com.

    And our publishers would never stand for that!
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