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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm Stupid, but... (Adwords)
    For the life of me I can't figure out why my "broad match" phrases aren't broad matching!

    Here's an example; Let's say a guy broad matches the keyword phrase "goped esr750", now said guy is supposed to get his ad placed whenever those two words show up in a Google query, right. Even if the user throws some nonsense in there, let's say "goped esr750 sexytime" or mixes up the order "esr750 goped pamela".

    Well, I'm seeing my ads pop up sometimes and not other times. What's a guy got to do to get his ads to display with all broad match possibilities?



    Wow... just checked the I gotta catch some

    Oh yeah, don't say raise your bid. I've got 30 cents in there, that should do it for a GD scooter

  2. #2
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    I won't say "raise your bid." Instead, as long as the topic is broad matching, I'd say an alternate such as:

    Upbid increase
    raze up bid
    bid raise your
    esrbid750raise
    go raise bid ped go

    Hey - don't make fun - it just might work! Good luck F-Odelic!
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  3. #3
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    broad match doesn't mean you'll always show, there's much more to it than that because you're not the only person bidding... in your example that included the word pamela, think about what that does to people broad matching on the leyword pamela... see... 1,000 people are all reaching to show for that search... so what's G to do... hmmm... write an algo to try and decide which matches are most appropriate between searched-for-phrase and the keyword you (and others) are bidding on...

    give some thought to skipping the broad matching... trade in your shotgun for a rifle...

    also, check your negs and make sure you're not blocking things yourself...

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    Donuts, actually, I did add a butt load of new broad match keywords/phrases and I have a good number of very specific negative keywords that should help enhance my CTR. We'll see what happens. If anybodys got the magic solution, let me know... otherwise I'll keep banging away at it and see what happens.

    Gracias mucho, seniors!

  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager adambha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankodelic
    For the life of me I can't figure out why my "broad match" phrases aren't broad matching!
    First of all, I agree with Donuts. Go with phrase/exact matching as a start.

    Another thought is to take a look at Analytics, if you haven't already. They now have the 'AdWords Keyword Positions' feature that'll show you what position each keyword has been shown, and how many times. It may just be that your broad match ads are showing...in position 124.

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    So, what happens if you use multiple match types for the same keyword phrase? Let's say you throw all of the following into the pot, what happens then?

    goped esr750
    "goped esr750"
    [goped esr750]

  7. #7
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankodelic
    So, what happens if you use multiple match types for the same keyword phrase? Let's say you throw all of the following into the pot, what happens then?

    goped esr750
    "goped esr750"
    [goped esr750]
    Actually Franko - it would defeat your purpose IMO. if you have the term on broad match it's going to display on any one or more of the keywords or combinations of the words. So to put the duplicate keyword phrase into all three match types would be pointless. On the other hand if you wanted to target more specifically, you use either the phrase match or for maximum filtering / absolute specificity - exact match.

    Generally I get better conversions and better roi on phrase match than broad; and typically you will get higher conversion but fewer "matches" / visitors if it is exact match - with the exception of household brand recognition like "playstation" or XBox etc.
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  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager adambha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankodelic
    So, what happens if you use multiple match types for the same keyword phrase?
    Actually, I do this often, although I set a different Max CPC for each. The lowest for broad, a little more for phrase, and even more for exact. This method has resulted in higher conversions and lower costs, for me at least.

    This is because my industry (jewelry) is highly competitive with high search volume. A broad match at a particular CPC will show up a LOT lower position than if I do a phrase or exact match.

    Also, because search volume is high, I'm continually adding more negative keywords as people search for things I never thought of. These come through the broad match and it pains me to pay as much as $1/click for visitors who never should have arrived in the first place.

    I do agree with ALH, though. It may be overkill for some terms/industries, but it makes a *noticeable* difference for me.

  9. #9
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    the broad's lower ctr will usually ensure the phrase version will show when both can be triggered (G shows whichever one would rank higher). bidding the phrase a tad higher has the same effect on it's likelihood to win (show) and is usually justified because of the higher roi it's likely to have.

    i do this at times, back phrase matches with catchall broads. but, for several reasons, as time passes, i mine my logs for more phrase (and exacts) and reduce the number of broads.

  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager frankodelic's Avatar
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    Nice... I've tweeked my campaign accordingly. Thanks, guys!

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
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    Very interesting stuff. I think I really need to be thinking about these things while doing my adwords campaigns. They haven't been performing like they should, but I've been broad matching nearly everything. This kind of graduated approach seems like its just what I need.
    Jason Rosenbaum
    Affiliate Manager
    MINDsprinting

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    generally, broad matching will give you lower ctr, lower position and less traffic (than a group of well aimed phrase and exacts). and since ctr is a factor in the keywords quality score, you get higher minimum bids and higher CPC's / lower ROI as well.

    like mom always said, avoid broads, they're nothing but trouble.

    and it's a better strategy to start narrow and then widen, rather than the opposite.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
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    I think that's my problem...I'm mostly dating broads right now...

    Jason Rosenbaum
    Affiliate Manager
    MINDsprinting

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager adambha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    ...ctr is a factor in the keywords quality score
    Using phrase/exact match I've seen excellent quality score growth as these terms perform better (higher CTR) and I then see better positioning and ROI for me.

    One thing to note: don't get caught in the 'tweaking' syndrome. Set your keywords and bids and then let it go. After enough time passes (a subjective measure) you can re-evaluate and make changes as necessary.

    A couple of days is not an indicator of the success (or failure) of your changes...

  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
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    A couple of days is not an indicator of the success (or failure) of your changes...

    Agreed with that. We usually like to get a hundred or so clicks to make any determinations...so that may be up to 2 weeks depending.
    Jason Rosenbaum
    Affiliate Manager
    MINDsprinting

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    i like to get 300 minimum, preferably 500.

    and just like adambha, i let things ride... tweakitis is a paralyzing disease... far better to diversify than to try and tune 1 thing to perfection (remember, it's an auction, you are not the only thing changing as you tune and tweak).

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adambha
    One thing to note: don't get caught in the 'tweaking' syndrome. Set your keywords and bids and then let it go. After enough time passes (a subjective measure) you can re-evaluate and make changes as necessary. A couple of days is not an indicator of the success (or failure) of your changes...
    Right on Adambha! Patience is a difficult thing for many small advertisers to understand as budget constraints often cause them to make rush decisions. I generally give changes a minimum of 200 - 400 clicks before I make a judgment. "Wholesale" changes will rarely do anything other than keep you from seeing a more accurate picture of results, and thereby forcing the wholesale thinker to make snap changes that only further dilute or blur reality.

    Alan
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  18. #18
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Even with a high number of clicks, a couple days still isn't a good test with Google. Until they review an ad change, it only runs on Google (which usually performs better than their other traffic sources). You won't have an accurate picture of how your changes perform until the ad is being shown everywhere.
    Michael Coley
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  19. #19
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    That's true Michael. Recently it has been taking G much longer to review KW's for inclusion on the content networks. Used to be 1 - 2 days, now it's been taking 4 - 7 days. Even had one campaign three months ago in which I finally called G to see what was taking so long, and they then escalated it and had it live the next day.
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