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  1. #1
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    MR. Pike is perfectly happy to see our money stolen.

    [ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  2. #2
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    Actually I'm a bit sad to see him go.

    I think we need all the support we can get.....Well I thought we should give him a chance, One day isn't much of a chance. He's just a guy.....he shows up and we pull the whole plug....That forum has been up for up for at least a few months, ????

    I don't agree with Gator either, but Befree is more than just Gator....

    Question if Cj hosted When U's affiliate program would we then drop the Cj forum?

    But if we were "holly than vow" we should never have had a Reporting.net forum to begin with.

    I believe in my opinion is was created for us as affiliates, to hash out problems with the network to seperate it with the others. It just so happens Link share Guy arrived, and helped out, as well as Todd.


    Heck.....Remember Overstock.....they were once bad, and we turned them Awesome. so Why spill it all on some Mr. Pike....He's just a man with a job, he's not the company.

    It's not so different than Linkshare promoting When U to all their affiliates? :confused: ...But we forgave them didn't we??????

    It's all about showing them, and finding someone willing to listen, and to see it the affiliates point of view.

    I for one ain't dropping all my Befree Merchants because of Gator being hosted there. And I doubt that many people have.

    I guess I missed something....just not sure what.....
    I for one still would like question answered about reporting.net, and would love to have a representative willing to help here.


    Just my two cents worth..... :confused: for whatever it's worth.....I'm not going to get into a debate about this, soo If I don't reply to this thread, that is why....I'm just adding my opinion.

  3. #3
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    Another knee-jerk decision by Haiko.

    Of course I am against Gator as well, and wish BeFree would not partner with them. But... is this really going to help ANYTHING?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    5,2500++ [sic] who will not promote Befree merchants (except TigerDirect) might make them wake up!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Make that 5,429, as I cannot afford to not continue to promote certain BeFree merchants (including, but not limited to TD).

    Now..where can we go to dicuss issues with BF/BF Merchants? Anyone have a suggestion?

  4. #4
    Guest
    Well, befree is NOT an affiliate network. It is a support service to companies who are using their bfast tracking system. This system was originally developed for ad serving anyways (well see how things turn around? CJ's system was originally developed for affiliate marketing and Mr Gross turned it into an unreliable - undependable - untrusted ad serving technology)

    So it is really none of befree's business to support people/entities/companies who are affiliated with befree's clients.

    As you may have noticed, all Steve can offer is to help you get in touch with his clients. In my case, I just look up the phone number and call the suckers.

    - BluesX

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Canfree,

    Pike isn't uneducated on the subject and doens't bring anything to the table that we need nor want.

    He is blindly looking away from the obvious fraud and just because he sits in a position to help us doesn't mean he would. Obviously he has already decided he would not help us.

    The jury isn't out on wether or not Gator is stealing from us and if Pike thinks that's okay then we don't need his crap.


    Nebufil

    Suit yourself but I hardly think Haikos decision was kneejerk. The funny part is when Haiko and we all succeed in stopping this crap you'll be enjoying your extra wealth but you'll never know where it came from.


    -----
    didn't say things right the first time

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  6. #6
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    Heyder....


    how do we know what Mr. pike would bring to the table>>>>>>>>> He was only here for 1 day?

    What could it have hurt to let this conversation go on for a week or two>......

    At least this way We would know what Mr. Pike is up to, or if he would help in any shape or form.

    I'm very much in support of Getting Rid of Gator, but I don't think Banning reporting.net is going to do the trick....

    And even if Befree did ban them out....who's to say if LS or Cj wouldn't take them.

    And If no one would take them then they'd go inhouse, and still carry on.

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: Canfree ]

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Canfree I read attitude in his responces and his message was clear. Befree will continue to look the other way while gator steals our money.

    He (Mr. Pike) knows they are taking our money. He is not stupid nor blind he is simply one of those people that while you are getting mugged on the street looks the other way.

    In my book a person who knows something is wrong and does not help is just as guilty as the offender.

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  8. #8
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    Heyder......

    Is it that he knows...or in truth does it mean He's too proud to admit....he has no clue how the whole thing works, and the company says " don't worry it's all legit" and that's what this man's going on.


    And as I stated....Gator is One Issue of how many issues with Befree????

  9. #9
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I would believe what you said about him being to proud to admit he doesnt know but that's not the case.

    Befree knows full well what's going on. They know without a doubt.

    As far as the other issues how would you really expect them to resolve anything if they will not do so on such an obvious thing like this?

    Do I smell money under the befree table?

    Canfree still friends right? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  10. #10
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    >Gator is One Issue of how many issues with Befree????

    Exactly.

    Good riddance.

  11. #11
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    Oh yes...still friends....

    I went back and re read the posts.....and I have to say I still didn't read attidude....He was a bit too formal, but I didn't sense attitude :

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As for Gator, we will monitor them closely and if their actions are prov-en illegal we will certainly reconsider our decision. Don't take this as indication that we're ignoring this issue. We are talking to Gator and other affiliates who have had questionable practices and encouraging them to listen to the feedback and make changes to be better Internet citizens.

    Fred brought up an excellent point regarding empowerment. I can assure you that as EVP of Services I am empowered to make changes. My intent on coming on this board is to better understand your issues and resolve them. I’m sure there will be times we can't see eye to eye, but I’m confident that you will see that we do care about you and want you to succeed.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    This was his last post......He's a man in a suit....that is all, ...Think about it. He wants to believe Gator is within the Law, wouldn't you if you were in their shoes?

    They probably never even really looked into it, just going on face value of Gator, These guys probably never even downloaded it themselves on their home computer.

    Befree should Make Gator add to their download section of their system.
    Click Here to get Ewallet ( 10Kb )
    Click Here to get Whatever ( 15kb)
    and not ...by downloading gator you'll automatically receive ewallet and other nasty stuff.....

    This is just for starters.

    Enough for me about this damn Gator issue.....So Where's a gun when I need it so I can this croc......and be done with it....

    Perhaps We can nick name Haiko as the Crocodile Hunter ....LOL

  12. #12
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    >>They probably never even really looked into it, just going on face value of Gator

    Sorry, but I don't believe it for a minute. Suits know when liabilities exist. They may not have known when Gator first changed its business model, but the first time the news of the IAB investigation/suit hit the press, they knew.

    If not, they really are a lost cause.

    Besides which, you don't go around encouraging people to be "better Internet citizens" if you don't know they're doing something wrong in the first place.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador affiliatemakeover's Avatar
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    Simply put, they are making money with Gator. Try walking into a board meeting in today's tough economy and explaining why you removed a money maker. Guess what, you're fired.

    Now, as I understand it, Gator practices haven't been deemed legally illegal yet. Maybe when that happens, they'll comply.

    Until then, as always, money rules. I like the steps taken here. Someone has to start stepping it up and making a point. Who else but us? Maybe someday we'll be so strong it will make a huge difference.

  14. #14
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    Gator is not the money maker.

    You are the money maker.

    I am the money maker.

    Gator is the train robber.

  15. #15
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    Look, think of this as Steve's "rite of passage" in this community.

    If he comes back in a week and says "Hey, following the opinions voiced on ABW and after a lot of heated internal discussion, we have decided to drop Gator effective September 1st. Furthermore, we will be revising our merchant acceptance procedures so that we will no longer tolerate parasiteware advertising" then I'm sure Haiko and this community will welcome him with OPEN ARMS and no doubt the BeFree forum would be unlocked within minutes of such an announcement.

    If nothing happens, and there's no reaction from Steve/BeFree, then you KNOW with 100% certainty they're more interested in a few extra dollars than in doing the right thing.

    The next week or so should be interesting...

  16. #16
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    S'OK. I'm cancelling my BeFree membership as soon as Tiger goes live in-house. Who needs 'em?

    Now, if someone who came up with the idea of closing the forum was to "walk his talk" instead of settling for Haiko's actions, he'd follow suit [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]. That would take a lot of guts as well.

    {

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  17. #17
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Personally, I won't loose any sleep over the forum being locked. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I steer clear of befree whenever I can for numerous reasons. Shoot, when I read Heyder's first post last night I didn't know what in the heck he was talking about because I didn't even notice the forum had been locked! That's how often I even go there.

    It's not like Haiko closed the forum over that one thread with Pike. My understanding is that he has had numerous discussions with the folks over at befree regarding the Gator issue. I doubt that it will make much of a difference to them the forum was closed. It would seem that management over there is very nearsighted in their decision making. But at least a point is being made.

  18. #18
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    I have a couple of merchants at BeFree that I am not going to drop and who do not come here to talk.

    It would have been nice to keep the forum open for those of us who might want to ask another affiliate about how things are going with this or that.

    I am also not going to debate.
    Just my opinion.

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  19. #19
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    That's right BestLittleFreeHouse. There are a number of issues with BF aside from Gator - failure to disclose vital information such as cookie duration and deactivated merchants being another serious issue. Lack of live stats data puts them far behind other networks as well as in-house programs. Usability issues are often waste valuable time and resources.

    Even when a BeFree is "responding" they are un-responsive. Case in point was the thread where BeFree was repeatedly asking some affiliates for sensitive banking data upon login and not allowing them to access their reports unless they input their bank account numbers. It took well over a month for someone from BeFree to "respond" to the issue - by giving a comprehensive history of how BeFree was founded by two brothers, Tom and Sam, and how Barnes and Noble was their first customer, spin spin spin. Nowhere in her response did Heather address the question. IMHO that was quite rude and when I called her on her response she said "I wanted to clarify why Be Free asks for bank and social security information" (?!) then finally gave an answer that made some sense. I wouldn't have been suspicious if she'd given a direct answer to the question in the first place, but in light of the fact that Gator's actions are supported by BeFree, I have to wonder what else they are doing with the information that we aren't being told.

    {

  20. #20
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    Vicki - you can still ask other affiliates about BeFree. You can ask here in the Cafe or use the Other Ad Networks forum [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    If things get resolved, BeFree will be back.
    If they are going to continue to argue that it's OK for us to be robbed, there isn't much else to talk about.

    {

  21. #21
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    eaglefire I agree with all you said. And that is just a few examples. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    It's always an immediate red flag to me when merchants or reps from ad networks post here and their answer is like listening to a politican's response--spin, spin, spin. When you get that type of response it means that they really don't want to answer the issue at hand. You realize you've read several of their posts and they haven't said one thing related to the issue at hand. Tells me a lot about the the company they are representing and my trust factor immediately drops to pretty much zero.

  22. #22
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    At least we got Steve to admit that there are "questionable" practices on the part of Gator. However, I can't help but ask myself how it is he can reconcile this within himself by simply saying "well they haven't done anything illegal" and afterall, it's business. When a corporation's sense of ethics and integrity becomes skewed, so does their judgement with regards to sound business decisions, because those decisions are no longer based on ROI, but on personal and corporate greed. At that point the excuse that "it's business" begins to take on the connotation of the way it's used by racketeers. We've seen this happen with Enron, Worldcomm, and Global Crossing.

    {

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  23. #23
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    Sorry, but I don't think the timing of the lockout was well planned at all.

    Valueclick just completed the buyout of BeFree. They know BeFree is sick and suddenly, at the first chance that the new company had of really starting a dialog on why their company sucks rocks, we cut them off.

    It's not that I give VC a great chance of figuring out why they are in the big spiral to failure. After all, VC just pulled the brainer move of making their banners spawn popups. But they are scared, and might see the light.

    VC just completed the buyout of BeFree; right now is the first chance the new company has of seeing the errs of its ways.

  24. #24
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Well, if the transition of onResponse to VC is any indication of things to come, the takeover of BeFree will definitely have some rough waters. I used to make some good money with onResponse and those days are now gone. The quality of participating advertisers has definitely taken a turn for the worse also. In fairness VC has made some changes with regards to their interface and reporting, but I still don't find them really worth my time.

    I'm not holding my breath about positive changes because VC has made the acquisiiton. But only time will tell on that one and full transition will probably be months down the road.

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'm sure I got more than my 2 cents in before the lock-out so lurkers and Steve can read the older posts and see some abuses that need immediate fixing. Action speaks louder than words and BF finally needs to positive action moves to survive. I'm just sadden by the prompt closing of this network postings when communication started to look like it might happen.

    BF never really made any money off of commissions paid to affiliates by Gator as a so called network merchant. They paid out squatt over the years as they moved to the "darkside" with their lead fees for a parasite laden download free app. They make all their money off of Gator's thievery of other affiliates traffic,commissions with popup offers as a fully automated affiliate. Do they get a fee from Gator to autoload specials and merchant offers into their servers? How much sales volume do BF merchants send thru Gator popups and adwarez thta they get a cut off of? Somewhere BF gets monetary incentive side deals to keep this looser as a merchant for all the bad PR they bring their network!!

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