Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    185
    I'm curious if you have a tradeoff point between $ and principles, and if you (consciously or subconsciously) apply it in your affiliate dealings?

    For example, I just ditched a merchant (from a private affiliate program) that I felt was stiffing me on the commissions I earned during the 2 months their tracker was inoperable (they offered only approx. 50% of what the traffic was historically worth), even though they really are the ONLY company in their little niche, so that's effectively $60 a month gone for good...

    Another example: I got rid of a program that was getting me over $500 a month because my site visitors complained bitterly about it (it was for a free email service, but there was a semi-spam component to it in that by joining they were auto-opting into dozens of mailing lists) - the affiliate program I replaced it with is making me about $200 less a month...

    A third example: I ditched popups on my site (a $250 a month proposition) because it was annoying regular visitors.

    Am I mad to be trying to strive for some sort of "quality and integrity" level vs maximizing $? Or have you had exactly the same experience as me?

    I'm interested in any stories you can share...

    [ 08-20-2002: Message edited by: Edwin ]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,279
    >>I'm curious if you have a tradeoff point between $ and principles, and if you (consciously or subconsciously) apply it in your affiliate dealings?<<

    It would be hard for me to ditch CJ if they suddenly took on Gator, but it was easy to ditch BeFree. Why? CJ is 40-45% of my monthly income. BeFree was a drop in the bucket.

    OTOH, if a network responsible for 100% of my income started promoting child pornography, I would ditch them without a second thought.

    Everyone draws lines in the sand that They Will Not Cross. Where those lines are are up to the individuals... and, of course, lines drawn in sand are easily moved.

    >>Am I mad to be trying to strive for some sort of "quality and integrity" level vs maximizing $?<<

    Depends on your goals in life. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,336
    Edwin,

    Is that really an integrity issue or just choosing long term over shot term gains?

    Could say the same about Gator of course.


    I

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    709
    Well after the Cyber Rebate Issue, I'll never promote any Almost Free Rebates again. Period. Too many people get hurt.

    I won't do a "porn" website, even if I was promised to make $50, 000.00.

    The only pop up I have is on one site for a newsletter.

    I have sound on one of my sites, that a dear friend made especially for me, and yet I refuse to take it down, regardless on who complains.


    Yes, If I just had a pop up, and too many people complained, yes I ditch it. If I felt someone was screwing me, yes I'd dump them, and go else where.

    Jackpot.com earned me tons of money back at Cj, years ago, they slither from the dead, and reappear at Linkshare, Should I join....that's very easy money? No I don't, Can't take the chance. This is happened more than once, and I simply will refuse to give crooks another visitor of mine, whether it's paid for or not.

    I had a merchant drop me for no sales. Fine. Then I asked why, we did one sale the month before (this is along time ago) And I said "XYZ merchant" is doing great, Help me connvert your site. Well the dumb twit, oh well, it's you we offer more money, you should then make us first, but never mind we're disabling you. Anyhow a few flares back in forth, I gave her some numbers of the sales.....And oh ooops, she cancelled the wrong account. Sorry Their Gone, off the site, and has been for the last 6 months or so, and have no real idea if ever if I'll even bother promoting them.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    185
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Icicle:
    Is that really an integrity issue or just choosing long term over shot term gains?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Both, perhaps. I'm finding the range of responses very interesting...

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Go with the integrety over the quick buck. Tell your visitors about your ethics and choosy nature when recommending a merchant to them. They are your hard earned visitors and they will reward your honesty with a BOOKMARK. That baby is free traffic no parasite, spammer or PPC SE can take away from you.

    In the long run those lead programs and spammer frontend and even the popups & unders will get short circuited by revolting web surfers installing Blockers and filters. Then the advertisers will have to beg for exposure on honest affiliate owned sites.

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I got rid of a program that was getting me over $500 a month because my site visitors complained bitterly about it (it was for a free email service, but there was a semi-spam component <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    And, this was unethical because........

    Uh, your visitors want a free ride, do they? Just how do they suppose that free e-mail is going to be paid for anyhow? Tell the bozo's that's the price of the "free" service since they're too dumb to figure it out. I'd keep that one. There is no free lunch.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A third example: I ditched popups on my site (a $250 a month proposition) because it was annoying regular visitors.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh dear, the free lunch bunch was annoyed. Gee, life's tough for the "something for nothing" crowd. What principles were involved? Pop ups are not illegal, immoral nor personally degrading. Keep 'em.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I just ditched a merchant (from a private affiliate program) that I felt was stiffing me on the commissions I <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ditch 'em.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,713
    If I were a merchant with a coupon to offer, or a shipping special, I'd probably put up a pop-up. Otherwise, I can't quite bring myself to do it, conversions or not. I hate them, so I can't bring myself to do that to others. Yeah, I'm probably loosing money on that principle.
    {Caveat: I did see one member here who outranked one of my pages on a keyword term and used a pop-up to offer the visitor another merchant who has similar offerings, but I know the conversion is better -- it actually does serve the visitor since they get to see both merchants' offerings plus almost insures a sale for the site owner.}

    Merchants who don't convert or don't pay up get yanked off the site. They are replaced with another who may make less money, but that money ends up in the bank. $60/month is not worth looking back if you feel a merchant stiffed you.

    When making my content site I tried to sign up for most things I was recommending. When I found one program spamming anyone signed up for their services I pulled them from my site.

    Bottom line is that I have to live with all decisions I make in this lifetime. If I leave the net a worse place, have I really met my goals in life? For me money is not the objective, it's the means. More money means I am less limited in what I can do to help out in this world, less limited in my ability to care for my family, less limited in living up to my ideals in life. If I get that money by going against my ideals, have I really accomplished anything? Not in my books.

    That said there are lines in the sand that shift around quite a bit (like sending someone to Loralie.com -- I'd have puked if my bridesmaids had dressed like that), and I am constantly having to re-assess certain pages, certain merchants, and whether I can stomach marketing certain lines.

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    webmistress

    So for you, it isn't so much a moral issue but an issue of personal taste and preference.

    Well, there is certainly room for a class act.

    But, for Edwin the question was about money.

    If the issue is money, judge your viewers. If you think you will lose in the long run because they won't come back, then don't do pop-ups. You won't make money. If you think they are only annoyed but you make money on the pop-ups, use them. It isn't a moral issue at all. It is a financial issue.

    If the spam is going only to the free e-mail box, well heck, that's the price of using the box. If they don't like it, they can use some other free e-mail service. That's not a moral issue. It is a financial issue.

    So, I guess it depends on your goal. If you want to be classy, don't do anything offensive. If you want to make money, do what it takes to make money from your site as long as it is not dishonest or perverted. For some sites, that means being classy. That is where their bread is buttered. For other sites "in your face" is more lucrative.

  10. #10
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    256
    I remember a professor asking the class "Would you sleep with someone you detested for $1?" No one in the class put up their hand. Then he asked "Would you sleep with someone you detested for $1,000,000?" Many people in the class put up their hands.
    The prof then said "So the question is not what you are, but rather how much you cost!"
    It was a great lesson in relative morals. Many of us have very high standards and morals until large amounts of money come into play.

  11. #11
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    371
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WorkerBee:
    I remember a professor asking the class "Would you sleep with someone you detested for $1?" No one in the class put up their hand. Then he asked "Would you sleep with someone you detested for $1,000,000?" Many people in the class put up their hands.
    The prof then said "So the question is not what you are, but rather how much you cost!"
    It was a great lesson in relative morals. Many of us have very high standards and morals until large amounts of money come into play.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ahhhhh......... so that is why BeFree is doing the wild thing with Gator.com . [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


    Larry Wentz
    www.AffiliateNetwork.com www.MultipleDomainHosting.net

  12. #12
    Chick with Brains Tracy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    1,878
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Would you sleep with someone you detested for $1?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That reminds me of the story about the little boy who had to write a term paper on the difference between theory and reality. He was stumped and went to his father for help. His father said, "Well son, go and ask your mother if she would sleep with the neighbor for $50,000." The little boy obliged, and his mother said, "Don't tell you father, but for $50,000 I would do it."

    The little boy reported back to his father, who instructed him to go and ask the same question of his sister. His sister also said she would sleep with the neighbor for $50,000.

    Dutifully, the little boy went back and told his father. "But Dad, I still don't understand." The father replied, "Well son, in theory we're sitting on top of $100,000. In reality we're living with a couple of whores."

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, for Edwin the question was about money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not really. The question was money vs. principles. And I have to go along with webmistress on this one. I won't put something on my site that morally I think is anti-productive for the web as a whole. It may be my personal preference not to do something I find morally abhorrent.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,178
    I personally think pop-ups and pop-unders are a nuisance. If I am served more than one pop-up per visit, I leave that site and I don't return. This "in your face" agression is something I don't tolerate very well.

    I also abhor closing my browser, only to find 3 or 4 windows open that still have to be closed. I consider it very sneaky, and if I can determine which site it was that left the mess to be cleaned up, I don't go back. It also uses up memory, and slows my computer down.

    Maybe pop-ups have a better conversion for now, but they too will soon become last year's technology. As more and more people take control over what happens on their computers, more and more people will have technology that prohibits them.

    I want my site to be considered a friendly site. One of the ways I accomplish this is by not having any "surprises" lurking around the corner. When people click on links, they know where they're going, and when they close their browser there aren't any additional chores to be tended to - not from my site, anyway.

    The flashing banner ads, flash ads, skyscrapers, etc., all generally tend to perform at a level less than text ads. Why? I think it's because people are getting tired of ads. They're everywhere. On the sides of buses. In rest rooms. Everywhere you look. People stop seeing them.

    In the case of advertising, I think the "less is more" advice is best. If you don't like pop-ups, don't use them. As the backlash against pop-ups progresses, in the long run, I think it'll pay off.

    Andy

  14. #14
    affiliate emeritus missdonna's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    1,986
    Pop-ups annoy me, so I assume they annoy my visitors. So I rarely use them. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    I try to check out my sponsors, and when I find one treating their customers badly I drop them. Or I add a note telling what they do, for example, "I have heard their customer service isn't very good" - Surprisingly, that doesn't seem to have much negative impact on my conversions, but it makes me feel a lot better. :rolleyes:

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    3,234
    For me Pop-ups/unders etc., are almost as bad as SPAM. I have used them in the past with moderate success, and am tempted to do it again, but only on one or two pages.

    One of the reasons I detest pop-unders so much, is that I do not know what they are doing back there. Is it Comet-cursor or Gator trying to install itself? At the very least, it is wasting my precious dial-up bandwidth (no cable or DSL out here). When I am "surfing, I now use Opera with the pop-ups "disabled." It's wonderful.

    Has anyone seen the Flash based Orbitz chicken pop-under?, run your mouse over the feathers by accident and it spawns a new window! It's just more SPAM.

    Having said all that, business is business, I may add a couple of the D*** things.

    Fred

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,158
    Well I quess Edwin, you would have to ask yourself, are my repeat visitors worth 6000 dollars a year? If they bring you no extra revenue, what are they worth, you need to recoup bandwidth costs and your time somehow.
    As for popups, I don't like them either, popunders are acceptable to me so I run them on my site, not all of them, one popunder per day is not too much to ask I don't think, you get that at yahoo or msn. There have been a few times when banner companies slip in some popups, but I always find out about those. :mad:
    With the popunder you can atleast make a couple bucks on return visitors because they won't sign up for all of your offers and eventually will just be eating bandwidth.

  17. #17
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,336
    Edwin,

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Icicle:
    Is that really an integrity issue or just choosing long term over shot term gains?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >Both, perhaps. I'm finding the range of responses very interesting...

    Its an interesting question also because there *is* a purely moral component too - money aside.

    Imagine if annoying popups didn't drive visitors away? Theres still ethical grounds for removing them because 'annoyance' is harm in itself. Not much harm, but in a day it adds up.

    There is a bit is a book by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman where there is this demon. He's a very modern demon. Rather than find a monk or a priest and tempt him for years and years to break his vows - "real craftsmanship" he gets into the telephone exchange for New York and messes it up for 45 minutes.

    This causes mild to medium annoyance to pretty much everyone in the city! Then they all take this out on everyone else they come into contact with, and the effect ripples outwards speading mild evil everywhere.

    Efficient, no?

    Compare that with running a porn site. Assuming the models are happy and well paid all you have is (mostly) guys going there because they need something in particular and don't want to bother any females of their acquaintance.

    They get it, and the end result for society is slightly less frustration in the world.

    The end result of a popup is slightly more.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    I

  18. #18
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They get it, and the end result for society is slightly less frustration in the world.

    The end result of a popup is slightly more.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh my.....

    Well, I guess the New Yorker is bound to come out in me from time to time.

    I say lets those pansies who can't take it stay off the net and fade into oblivion!

    There has to be a Darwin factor somewhere.

    Weed out the weak with spawning pop-ups!

    The race will be improved and the over all benefit will be a more computer strong new generation. A new generation strong enough to withstand the torments of pop-ups and spam is about to emerge. We should be proud!
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    399
    I've mentioned before there is very little on the internet that's unique.

    A content site, maybe somewhat but never totally - so I guess I can't argue with an attitude of "I don't care what annoys my visitors, as far as I'm concerned they can all go elsewhere".

    A sales site is going to be even less likely to be unique - so I'd think more care would have to be taken not to give visitors ANY a reason to go elsewhere.

    Whatever is being told or sold, I can probably find easily elsewhere - at a site that doesn't annoy me.

    Darwin's ideas may apply to the internet but I don't think it's surfers and buyers who will end up with the dodo.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,658
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Whatever is being told or sold, I can probably find easily elsewhere - at a site that doesn't annoy me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well....

    If you have targeted traffic, why would somebody be annoyed if the product they were looking for conveniently popped right up in fromt of their face?

    KWIM? Sales is all about service [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    399
    Odds are pretty slim the exact thing I was looking for is gonna be on that popup.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,658
    "targeted" ~ is the operative term here.

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,086
    If you have return customers, and you send them to places that gets them on a spam list, two things happen: One, you are now competing for your user's attention with the spam artists. Two, you have ticked off your customer base...and they many not come back.

    Finally, if you replaced the free email spot with something else, you still getting cash for your traffic...so dropping the free email didn't really cost you a full $500.00.

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    185
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yintercept:
    Finally, if you replaced the free email spot with something else, you still getting cash for your traffic...so dropping the free email didn't really cost you a full $500.00.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I never claimed it did: "Another example: I got rid of a program that was getting me over $500 a month because my site visitors complained bitterly about it (it was for a free email service, but there was a semi-spam component to it in that by joining they were auto-opting into dozens of mailing lists) - the affiliate program I replaced it with is making me about $200 less a month..."

  25. #25
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    The original question.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm curious if you have a tradeoff point between $ and principles, and if you (consciously or subconsciously) apply it in your affiliate dealings?~Edwin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yep, and not too many can honestly say they don't!

    There are things I won't promote, though. For instance, there's this credit card over at CJ that's supposedly a "bad credit credit card", with a high EPC. But when you get to their site and find the fine print (for the card, not the aff. program), it says something like: Setup fee, $175; monthly fee, $10; some other annual fee $79... *these fees will completely use the line of credit* (they aren't so obvious in saying that the fees will do that)!!! To me that's a totally bogus ripoff and I won't promote it, especially since 1) It's not likely that the customer would realize WTF until it was too late, and 2) It's almost dirt-easy to get a REAL credit card with bad credit if you go about it right so there's no *need* for anyone to have a bogus card like that one.

    I won't promote "get rich quick" schemes even though they apparently sell. Too many people lose their shirts on these, even with the legal ones.

    Any merchant that has too many fish 'a jumping (AKA the crook factor re: their aff. program), does not get promoted.

    Merchants that cause w*rk are gone, no matter what they pay! I didn't get into this to do w*rk and the ones that want a quasi-employee can look elsewhere. Maybe it's not a question of morals, but it's definitely a matter of principle.

    It may sound weird, but I won't promote places that brag about how "good" they are, in most instances. To clarify: There's a few places that are always talking about how "responsible" they are--socially, environmentally, politically, or other. That stuff makes my gut churn and sounds really fishy to me, too! The first thing I think is, what's wrong with the place that they have to pretend it's *morally* better to buy from *them*!? Don't their products have anything else going for them??? It strikes me as a diversion away from the important stuff like: is the product any good and what's the warranty? The one "environmentally correct" place I *do* promote has products I've used myself so I know they have quality and not just hype (for the product line I'm promoting). But I think their CR'd be a lot better if they'd knock off with the "environmentally responsible" spin and just concentrate on pitching the QUALITY of the items.

    As for the popups/popunders, I'd run them on some pages if I thought they'd convert well enough. But when Angelfire started running unrelated popunders, it KILLED the conversion ratio of the sales pages I had there. (That caused me to move my AF site off of there fast!) But I think there are some instances where a popup (not a popunder) would be good, like if there is a sale or a time-limited offer--and the popup is directly related to what's on the page. In those cases, there is probably enough benefit to the viewer to outweigh the definite annoyance factor.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Principles of Employee Empowerment
    By textchx in forum Virtual Family and Off-Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: November 22nd, 2012, 11:28 AM
  2. Principles of Affiliate Program Management
    By GravityFed in forum AvantLink -AV
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 1st, 2011, 05:20 PM
  3. principles of ethics
    By Ebudae in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December 19th, 2003, 04:29 PM
  4. business principles. take this seriously.
    By jc101 in forum Newbie Affiliate FAQs & Helpful Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 31st, 2003, 11:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •