Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    What's your opinion on this scenario for SEO
    First of all, I completely understand the concept of "develop for your visitors first", compared to "developing for search engines". The following scenario crosses over a bit more into SEO purposes.

    Let's say I accquire a database of facts, or quotes, or "this day in history" type of entries, and wanted to show a random entry per visit to an end user, maybe displayed at the footer of every page.

    Would displaying something like a random quote per visit help keep the content fresh for the search engines? Or is it possible that that much refreshing could be detrimental to a site?

    I'd love to hear your opinion (good or bad) on this!

  2. #2

    Join Date
    June 7th, 2006
    Posts
    1,596
    Depends on how you display such information (such as php, perl, etc) whether the search engines would pick it up at all. If it's like a feed, it most likely would not be picked up. Now with perhaps some php script and some mod rewrite it "might" work okay.

    I do something similar on a couple of sites, but use modrewrite and a large database of articles that updates itself every few days. It works very well. IMHO.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Interesting. yeah, it would be strictly PHP, and the data would be written simply as a line of text (at least the way I have it thought out). I'm thinking that this would keep the page looking new to the bots...but not sure.

    Thanks for the input

  4. #4

    Join Date
    June 7th, 2006
    Posts
    1,596
    Well, wouldn't it be much like a "forum" type of output? Forums constantly change (if you have a fairly busy forum anyway) and it's usually php. Though with several of my vbulletin installations I use vbseo which helps "bots" to index the information better (aka it does modrewrite). So I would say your idea would work, but it would probably work better with a modrewrite setup of some sort.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    January 12th, 2007
    Posts
    107
    Should just be able to do a simple test and see. Bunch of tools will tell you exactly what the crawlers will see. I use some of these:

    http://www.selfseo.com/

    Specifically the crawler tool:

    http://www.selfseo.com/crawler_simulation.php

    Or just grab a copy of Lynx [text browser] give you an idea of what they see.

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager adambha's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 20th, 2006
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    Would displaying something like a random quote per visit help keep the content fresh for the search engines? Or is it possible that that much refreshing could be detrimental to a site?
    FWIW, I have a random quote generated via PHP and displayed in the header on *every page view* Now, these quotes have nothing to do with my industry, they're just interesting, so I have no idea what the SEO impact is.

    Yet, I do get occasional visits from someone who was searching for a specific quote that happened be generated when Google cached the page so G is 'noticing' the quotes at the very least.

  7. #7
    Full Member
    Join Date
    March 10th, 2006
    Posts
    466
    Here's M Cutts Video blog:
    h**p://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1156145545372854697

    Go to 03:39. Here he talks about changing content-on-reload being not good. However, he doesn't say how much content.

    So, I would make sure it doesn't happen during every reload, only periodic ones.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Thanks for all of the great input guys. I'll check out that video, and see what Matt is saying. Maybe I can figure out a way to do a random entry per "day" instead of "visit".

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,797
    There's lots of rotator type scripts out there that will allow you to rotate per day or even per week (http://www.cgiscript.net have one, for example) and these will display to the search engines if you use PHP or SSI to include them.

    No need to both with a 'spider simulator' - any text that is visible in the source code of your page when viewing in your browser is visible to search engine.

  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 18th, 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,436
    I'd say as a rule, the more focused your site the better. Unless you're looking for "this day in history" traffic (as opposed to people who are interested in buying widget x), keeping things focused is better then keeping them hyperfresh.
    Jason Rosenbaum
    Affiliate Manager
    MINDsprinting

  11. #11
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 17th, 2005
    Location
    Bayou Country, LA
    Posts
    3,432
    Here's M Cutts Video blog:
    h**p://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1156145545372854697

    Go to 03:39. Here he talks about changing content-on-reload being not good. However, he doesn't say how much content.

    So, I would make sure it doesn't happen during every reload, only periodic ones.
    I had seen this when it first came out and it didn't hit me. It now seems I have committed another sin.

    All my datafeed areas have a cover page that changes on each reload to show a random product. I didn't do this with bots in mind. It just seemed to make the page fresh to the visitor. Well I guess that will have to be changed. I'm not anti google but it gets old hanging on their every word.

  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 18th, 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,436
    Honestly, I might not go that far. Your random product image is still relevant to your site, and it is still adding value. It isn't some sort of random quote or saying. If you find your visitors click on it and buy from it, I'd keep it.
    Jason Rosenbaum
    Affiliate Manager
    MINDsprinting

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Quote Originally Posted by MINDsprinter
    I'd say as a rule, the more focused your site the better. Unless you're looking for "this day in history" traffic (as opposed to people who are interested in buying widget x), keeping things focused is better then keeping them hyperfresh.
    Let me clarify something (in my scenario). There's a lot of content on each of these pages, half of it being original, the other half being datafeed info, such as desc. and such. The only purpose behind outputting "this day in history" type of info is so that the bots don't get a "304" status response returned on subsequent visits, which I'm hoping would look like it's constantly being refreshed.

    It woudn't be much help for anything else though, and I wouldn't expect it to be searched for, or even of much interest to tell you the truth. Strictly for SEO purposes, and would be located at the very end of the page.

    This all stems from the current setups I have now, and the way the bots have been coming by to index the pages. I noticed a lot of these pages were being returned as "not modified"..hence this whole process.

    edit: by the way, I haven't watched the Matt Cutts video yet...so this may all be a moot point anyway...just thought I'd share.

  14. #14
    Comfortably Numb John Powell's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 17th, 2005
    Location
    Bayou Country, LA
    Posts
    3,432
    Your random product image is still relevant to your site
    Unfortunately I'm serving the product description also.

    The only purpose behind outputting "this day in history" type of info is so that the bots don't get a "304" status response returned on subsequent visits, which I'm hoping would look like it's constantly being refreshed.
    Use the "Live HTTP Headers" add-on in Firefox and see if that works. I think you said that you were using PHP. I spent a lot of time playing with this to see if I couldn't get some of the effects you are wanting. It was only about a week ago, and if I remember the dynamic pages weren't giving a "304".

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    ok thanks. Will go grab it. Beats having to look at the log and wait for another visit..

  16. #16
    .
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,973
    First, about two years ago, I tried this strategy myself (merge "public domain" quotes & jokes with affiliate product info) -- for example, "music quips and quotes" and "art quips and quotes," each tied to products in that general category. The result: almost zero sales. I had more than a quarter-million pages getting indexed by Google et al, but only a handful of real visitors per week to those pages. Lots of bandwidth, almost zero sales (Perhaps a dozen sales total in 18 months.) The domain where these are hosted has a home-page pagerank of 5 today (up from the usual 3), but all these pages come up with pagerank of zero.

    It seems likely that Google's algorithm recognizes that if a particular sentence or passage appears thousands of times on different web pages in its index, that phrase should be given zero weight in determining pagerank, even if the specific quote changes every day or every week. This algorithm would assign low rank not only to quotes/jokes/etc but also to the product descriptions that are replicated across hundreds of thin-affiliate sites.

    Second, since I started working with QuoteProducts, I have access to a huge database of quotes (including the quotes that appear on our 2,160 current products, plus about 65,000 more -- our database excludes the "garbage quotes" that are included at sites that boast 150,000 or 250,000 quotes).

    Using this quote database, I've done some experimenting, as have some of our affiliates, and ultimately we've verified exactly what you hear every day on ABW: people respond to meaningful original content, and search engine algorithms recognize this fact and gradually exclude sites that use tricks.

    A page with one or a few quotes and a product description won't attract many folks, and as another fellow noted, putting quotes on your pages is most likely to attract people who are looking up that quote -- and those people don't have "purchase interest."

    That's not to say that a good "famous quotations site," for example, can't draw a strong audience of people who might buy affiliate products, especially if the products are closely related to the specific quote (and our posters fit that perfectly, and perform well when featured on pages where the quote is featured editorially -- meaningfully or in a reference format, not as meaningless content to fool search engines).

    However, 95% to 99% of visitors to a "famous quotations site" will pop in and out with no purchase interest; they may be students working on a school project, or someone trying to remember or verify a quote, but they aren't in a purchase mode. The result, where the product isn't "perfectly" matched to the content, is much lower clickthrough and conversion rates than is typical on sites with original editorial content. Even with millions of pageviews per month, most of these webmasters aren't earning much more than their hosting costs.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Maybe quotes is a bad idea to begin with. I've been thinking more on this, and I'm not sure why I ddin't think of it before (Bumpaw brought something similar up). I suppose I can work something out where the random output would be a product, or product image + title, etc. Something similar to "Product of the Day" type of output near the bottom of the page.

    It would make more sense to have something useful (although I don't forsee an increase in sales simply b/c I have related, but random product), but at least it's more appropriate.

    Another idea I thought of was to implement a section for my blog's rss feed (the site's blog), where only the healines are updated (maybe 5 at a time). The blog's content is unique.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by MoneyBusiness; January 26th, 2007 at 03:49 PM.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Bleh, more brainstorming (enjoying this?). I'm getting a bit fond of the rss idea - the inclusion of the top 5 recent headlines from my blog onto the site.

    I see a couple of benefits to this:

    1) It's absolutely original, so there's no issue with some weird duplicate content issue.
    2) Maybe bring more attention to the blog, which I'd love to have happen - which could mean better relationship building.
    3) And should keep the page refreshed, but not too often, as it's only updated about once a day or less.

    Does this sound like a weiner? Am I missing anything obvious?

  19. #19
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    6,795
    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    Let me clarify something (in my scenario). There's a lot of content on each of these pages, half of it being original, the other half being datafeed info, such as desc. and such. The only purpose behind outputting "this day in history" type of info is so that the bots don't get a "304" status response returned on subsequent visits, which I'm hoping would look like it's constantly being refreshed.

    This all stems from the current setups I have now, and the way the bots have been coming by to index the pages. I noticed a lot of these pages were being returned as "not modified"..hence this whole process.
    So I guess I am not the only one seeing that "not modified" on pages that are updated often.
    Maybe quotes is a bad idea to begin with. I've been thinking more on this, and I'm not sure why I ddin't think of it before (Bumpaw brought something similar up). I suppose I can work something out where the random output would be a product, or product image + title, etc. Something similar to "Product of the Day" type of output near the bottom of the page.
    I already tried that!

    I have a random product with image, description, etc, showing on those pages so the visitors and the SE's don't see the same exact same thing on every visit to those pages.

    But those pages still will say "not modified since"

    When we update the datafeeds, normally those pages stay the same because the only thing updated is what is inside the templates, so even if we put a "last Updated" code in there, while the visitors will see that the page is new, it will make no difference to the SE's.

    Until I find a better way to do it.


    I am using a work around way, around that issue.












    Since in reallity, all those templates practically, almost never change, and since they indeed, send the last day that they were uploaded.

    I just re-upload those same templates every time I do a datafeed update, or once a week, a day, a month, or when ever I feel like it. So now the "not modified since" will say the date that I did the re-upload and not the same old .


    Don't steal or reveal this info.

  20. #20
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    The only purpose behind outputting "this day in history" type of info is so that the bots don't get a "304" status response returned on subsequent visits, which I'm hoping would look like it's constantly being refreshed.
    That's something I would be very careful of.

    Lately I've been watching Googlebot really closely and it's doing some very odd things, almost like it's testing for just such tricks.

    I've watched it make HEAD requests for a week straight on a site just after fixing a bot-only 500 error, like it was making sure it really was a 200.

    It also started calling files and then calling the same file with "noexist_" appended to the beginning of the file name, like it was suspicious about whether we'd actually give 404s.

    It's been really fascinating watching all the quirky behavior (and there's been a lot more of it), but as a long time bot watcher, I'd say it's doing a lot more than just grabbing pages these days. Avoiding 304s seems like just the type of thing it'd be looking for with some of its tests...
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sal
    Don't steal or reveal this info.

    Thanks Sal, dont' worry, it's our secret..

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Eathan
    That's something I would be very careful of.

    Lately I've been watching Googlebot really closely and it's doing some very odd things, almost like it's testing for just such tricks.

    I've watched it make HEAD requests for a week straight on a site just after fixing a bot-only 500 error, like it was making sure it really was a 200.

    It also started calling files and then calling the same file with "noexist_" appended to the beginning of the file name, like it was suspicious about whether we'd actually give 404s.

    It's been really fascinating watching all the quirky behavior (and there's been a lot more of it), but as a long time bot watcher, I'd say it's doing a lot more than just grabbing pages these days. Avoiding 304s seems like just the type of thing it'd be looking for with some of its tests...
    I don't doubt it...Google is getting smarter. I'm not in the market to trick Gbot, or any other bot to tell you the truth. It's the concept behind datafeed sites, especially big datafeed sites, that makes it hard to work with Google, when Google is HUGE on unique and fresh content.

    I can create unique content out my wahzoo, but will never make enough to fill 18,000+ pages anytime soon - and anyone who thinks they can without a team (such as myself) is fooling themselves.

    That's pretty much the sole purpose behind these ideas - to try and find the middleground, such that Big Ole Mighty G is happy and I'm happy.

    Speaking of ideas, so what did you guys think of the RSS idea I mentioned above. Do you think something like that might work...at least somewhat well?

  23. #23
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    I can create unique content out my wahzoo, but will never make enough to fill 18,000+ pages anytime soon - and anyone who thinks they can without a team (such as myself) is fooling themselves.
    That's one of the reasons I started my prospecting site and program. I figured I could continue to compete on umpteen thousand products as an affiliate, or pick a much smaller set that had very little to absolute zero competition, yet still saw really good annual sales. I could build a business and affiliate channel while still keeping a few of my affiliate sites running.

    The fact that the whole industry had so little competition made it that much more attractive. 40-50 easy products or 100k tough ones? Seemed worth a shot to try the smaller set. We'll see how it goes...
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 14th, 2006
    Posts
    2,051
    I'd be interested in knowing how that turns out. It's a good idea.

    Also, on a side note, I worked last night to implement the RSS idea I spoke of above. It looks pretty spiffy, but we'll see how Google takes it. For those interested, I used a free script from:

    http://www.feedforall.com/free-php-script.htm

    The script is pretty thorough, for a free one, and I didn't see anything fishy in its code. The implementation is really straight forward, and pretty customizable; basically need to modify a template for the feed, create a url, and then do a PHP include in your page. That's about it. Let's see if that works well.

  25. #25
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    Thanks. PPC has been going pretty well and organic traffic is starting to kick in, so I think it'll do okay in the end. Still a ton of work to do starting from scratch, even on a smaller product set, but it's a blast dropping off packages at the post office!

    BTW, your RSS idea sounds like it could work out. I don't know how google will treat it, but a slow influx of new, original and related content vs. a random quote or fact, seems like a better way to go.
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  26. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Could this scenario get you a penalty with Google?
    By Rabbitte in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 25th, 2008, 09:56 AM
  2. Stupid Scenario of the Day!
    By Uncle Rico in forum Virtual Family and Off-Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 28th, 2007, 06:25 PM
  3. Best case scenario?
    By SD_Steve in forum Midnight Cafe'
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: July 12th, 2007, 07:02 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •