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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Haiko I know you have a strong stance against parasiteware. I think you should get tougher and ban all merchants affiliated with Morpheus from this forum. The proof is all around to see, Morpheus is stealing your members commission.

  2. #2
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I understand where you are coming from JJJay but if Haiko banned them I think he would lose some of the, for want of a better word, "power" he has in his dealings with the networks and and the merchants regarding Morpheous.
    I feel sure if Haiko thought it would not help by having them here he would ban them.

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Gordon I fully understand your point of view also, but if the merchant understands how Morpheus works but still refuses to kick them from their program, they should be banned in my opinion. For example, I joined www.overstock.com after seeing them listed in this forum. It was only today I found out they are "partnered" with Morpheus. I believe only merchants working in the affiliates best interests should be allowed promote their programs here.

  4. #4
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    JJay, as strongly as I feel about the issue, I don't think Shawn/Overstock is turning a deaf ear; I think the reason we've not heard from him on this is that he is most likely not recovered from pnuemonia.

    I am now going to close this thread. If another mod or Haiko see's fit to reopen it, I won't take offense.

    {

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Reopened, as I'd like real feed back on this thread!

    Overstock, will not support Morpheus when Shawn returns, this I can guarantee!

    Now, on to the others ... It is OUR money at stake here ...

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

    [This message was edited by Haiko on September 22, 2002 at 01:11 AM.]

  6. #6
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    Yes JJJay Shawn has been 'out sick'.

    My bet is that Shawn will be the one who will take the most heroic stance and action in this matter.

    AS SEEN ON SE!!!

  7. #7
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    I dont think its a good idea to ban them w/o giving them the chance to drop Morpheus for good. Since Morpheus supposedly had cleaned up their act, its understandable that some programs reinstated them. Now that they have demonstrated that they are liars, I have faith that merchants will drop them. After all, TigerDirect only removed them just a few days ago. So let's give the other programs some time.

    If merchants choose to overlook Morpheus' devious practices, then that is cause for concern. But my point is that instead of banning them, they should be given the chance to make things right. This includes dropping Morpheus for good for good

    Sal @ PHATBargains.com

  8. #8
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    Preface: None of this is directed at Shawn -- not while he has pneumonia, anyway. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I can't see any reason why a merchant affiliated with confirmed parasiteware should be allowed to benefit from a relationship with ABW... their benefit is the parasiteware's benefit is our financial loss.

    I think you must allow for time to confirm and to correct, but in the long run we should not feed any merchant who is feeding parasiteware -- it would be like some queer form of cannibalism, where the entree not only volunteers to be eaten, but to cook the meal as well.

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.

  9. #9
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    Cedric,

    We need more wood for the fire, I am still rare. How bout some veggies in here I am lonely. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Mike

    Don't Worry Mama, It Won't Get Freaky!

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Haiko, thanks for reopening this thread, it shouldn't have been closed by anybody except Haiko in the first place, since this thread was directed to him, kind of like reading and replying to other peoples postcards [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Anyway I just want state that I used OverStock as an example as they are the only merchant I've used which is currently partnered with Morpheus. I'd blast all my other merchants who use them, SHAME ON YOU CJ. I'm sure Shawn will plant his boot halfway up Morphues' a$$ once he returns. Since most if not all merchants associated with ABW are aware of how Morhpeus works, those merchants who continue to work with Morpheus should be dealt with severly.

  11. #11
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Haiko, thanks for reopening this thread, it shouldn't have been closed by anybody except Haiko in the first place, since this thread was directed to him, kind of like reading and replying to other peoples postcards
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Board moderation is at the moderator's discretion JJJay as Moderator of this forum I have been given authority to do by Haiko himself whenever we see potential for a flame war and pile up to erupt. Haiko backs me up on that and he was not here at the time to respond anyway. If you take issue to the fact that a thread with Haiko's name on it was closed by another moderator, then you should have directed it to him as a Private Topic or asked that only he reply. As you chose to post publicly - this is a public board - and encouraged discussion by people other than Haiko, your postcard analogy is ludicrous and only an obvious attempt at trolling. It was Haiko that was the one that was asking us to take it easy on the merchants here. The fact that the thread was later reopened is not a reflection on the decision to close it; Haiko knows I was only doing so in order to avoid a pile up until Haiko himself was here to assess the thread and answer it.

    If the thread was directed at Haiko as you say, and not an attempt to cause a pile-up here in the meantime, then there is no reason you should be taking issue with the decision to close it until he could be here to respond in the first place.

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

    [This message was edited by eaglefire on September 22, 2002 at 09:13 AM.]

  12. #12
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    Now for my feelings on the subject at hand, since apparently this thread is NOT directed at Haiko as the topic starter suggested:

    There are no Morpheus merchants here anymore with the exception of Overstock and Babystyle. I've just joined Babystyle and don't promote them but they've been missing in action anyway and are just taking up board space.

    As for Overstock, I rode Shawn harder than anyone the first time but think it's ludicrous to lean on Shawn about anything 4 days after contracting bronchitis and pnuemonia.

    Shawn has been one of our best supporters once he found out what was going.

    No Haiko, don't ban them. The merchants with forums here have proven responsive if somewhat stubborn at times. Banning them now - after the fact - will give us less power in being able to put public pressure when it becomes necessary.

    {

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  13. #13
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    I'm still a relative newbie and don't know much about morpheous despite reading many threads around here. I see a merchant list was recently posted, why not just ask all the affiliates to pull links for these vendors?

    I personally think to fix some things we "the affiliates" have to take a stand together first before we ask haiko to block access. With that said let me make some mad because it seems - "we the afifliates" do a poor job of standing together which is why we get treated so badly in so many areas of our business.

    I posted a thread on some vendors being over 90 days behind in their payments and suggested it would be a good time for others to take a stance and ACT by pulling links like I was doing. How many other affiliates do you think pulled their links?

    My point is that we stand together in here, but unless we ACT together we can't effectively make an impact or change much of the crap that goes on.
    In my opionion, their are just to few willing to make an initial sacrifice and ACT for an overall win for all affiliates in the long run.

    Many advertisors see this very plainly and continue to take advantage of us. This will continiue until we ACT together as a group.

    If every affiliate in here agreed to:

    1) Write a letter informing vendors their links will be pulled on x date unless the vendors association with morpheous was dropped
    2) We actually pull links on the date we stated and followed up with another email stating we have pulled their links.

    We might have a chance of forcing Mr. Advertisor to take a stance when they see sales dropping. But.... If sales don't drop significantly they aren't necessarily going to change their ways.

    With that said..... how long has this been an issue? Point made!

    Why not start a Vendor boycott forum and every week or every day for that matter, add a vendor to it for all abw members to pull their links until further notice and notify the vendor that we are part of a boycott and have pulled links. You can even take a poll on which vendor to act on next.

    In my opinion, we have to be clear that we're going to start collectively boycotting vendors
    as a group and our botcotting efforts have to have an effect for us to change Mr. Vendors opinion on partnering with scumware, not paying affiliates on time, to stop playing games with tracking and to stop hitting the auto reject button.

    I willing to take a stance and ACT, but we will only be successful if we act as a group. BTW I'm boycotting Spiegel and Ultimate Outlet for being over 90 days late in payment - jump on board and send a letter wont you.

  14. #14
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Yes, they should be banned.

    By virtue of a merchant having a board here, they are endorsed by ABW.

    Also, any merchant who does not actively (at LEAST once a week) participate in their messageboard -- should have their board deleted.

    Any merchant who refuses to answer and ignore legitimate questions about their stats and tracking issues -- should have their board deleted.

    ABW's reputation is on the line. ABW should NOT let a shoddy or absent merchant drag down the reputation that ABW has fought to achieve.

    If you lay down with dogs,
    you will come up with fleas.

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    (edited to add - I know Shawn from Overstock is sick and this is NOT directed at him - allowances should be made in cases such as this)

    she was tired of being poor, and she wasn't into selling door to door.... CSN

  15. #15
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    I have to disagree with merchants being banned. If that happened, then the communication channel for the collective voice for ABW members would be lost and the chance to bring the merchant around would also be lost. Case in point what happened with CWC on Friday. Jamie heard what members were saying loud and clear and took their suggestions. He finally downloaded Morpheus and did testing for himself and then deactivated them. Not only that he gave the heads up to another merchant, who then deactivated Morpheus. If CWC forum had been banned, then the only voice Jamie would have heard was his phone calls with the Morpheus folks and he would have had only one side of the story. And buyersport may well have still been one CWC affiliate list.

    The merchants who participate at ABW are a small % of the total merchants on the Morpheus list. Everyone is very frustrated and feed up with the whole parasite thing. The few merchants who care enough about their affiliates enough in the first place to participate here are the ones that catch all the heat because they are the most accessible to us. What about all those other merchants on the list who don't participate here? At least if a merchant is here, we have the chance to bring the issue up to them and have them change their ways. I would hate to lose that line of public communication.

    I'm making the offer again to any ABW member. I have Morpheus installed on my computer and I will keep it there awhile yet (even though I'm starting to see some stability issues). If you have any merchants on the list who don't participate here and you don't want to have Morpheus on your computer, PM me and I will take screen shots as proof of the Morpheus theft that you can send to the merchant are ask for an explaination. Then you can post their responses here, either favorable or unfavorble. All merchants should be held accountable, not just the one's who participate here.

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    JJJay,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Board moderation is at the moderator's discretion JJJay as Moderator of this forum I have been given authority to do by Haiko himself whenever we see potential for a flame war and pile up to erupt. Haiko backs me up on that and he was not here at the time to respond anyway. If you take issue to the fact that a thread with Haiko's name on it was closed by another moderator, then you should have directed it to him as a Private Topic or asked that only he reply. As you chose to post publicly - this is a public board - and encouraged discussion by people other than Haiko, your postcard analogy is ludicrous and only an obvious attempt at trolling. It was Haiko that was the one that was asking us to take it easy on the merchants here. The fact that the thread was later reopened is not a reflection on the decision to close it; Haiko knows I was only doing so in order to avoid a pile up until Haiko himself was here to assess the thread and answer it.

    If the thread was directed at Haiko as you say, and not an attempt to cause a pile-up here in the meantime, then there is no reason you should be taking issue with the decision to close it until he could be here to respond in the first place.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    100% correct!

    If anyone cares to hear my opinion, it's simply that it is not a wise move to ban a merchant who actively participates and when, given sufficient proof of impropriety, will act accordingly. This forum is specifically designed to grow the communications channel between all of the parties involved, non interaction leads to what we had before. So in essence, by banning any merchant, we would be acting in a counterproductive manner.

    Now to address the Overtock issue, we all know shawn is bed ridden, and that back in May he quickly removed them, what makes you think that he will not again? Has he not continuously been supportive of our needs and more than responsive? I think the ones who even have a drop of doubt should be ashamed [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  17. #17
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    My two centavos:

    I think it to be a very bad idea to ban ANYONE except knowing theives, be they affiliates or merchants.

    Furthermore, it would be even a better idea that everyone who is affiliated with a merchant who "might" be tied in with theives be educated to the issues. Write them and invite them.

    Granted, a large . . excuse me . . . a VERY large number of merchants will NEVER attend any discussion on any issue, never mind in an open forum. I see it as TIME to DUMP these low-life merchants and start educating them in the only manner we have weight: ZERO TRAFFIC TO NON-ACTIVE MERCHANTS.

    If merchants don't respond to email now, what makes us think they'll co-operate with these issues? They won't~! That is the time to dump them, even if they are providing income.

    Principle versus money. Are affiliates just as guilty as merchants? How many affiliates are willing to dump these merchants?

  18. #18
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    removed

    [This message was edited by Haiko on September 22, 2002 at 01:03 PM.]

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
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    eaglefire,

    Were you present for the festivities in Ibiza by chance LOL [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    Don't Worry Mama, It Won't Get Freaky!

  20. #20
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    My apologies if my previous post offended, it was only intended as a bit of lighthearted humor.
    I am sorry

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  21. #21
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    I think they shouldn't be banned. Take our case for example.

    This board provides a very valuable service to merchants. In Buyersport's case it is not only affecting affiliates sales but other methods as well. So merchant's will definitely want to hear this.

    I suggest you send an email to these other merchants, and if you have screen shots for proof, send those too, even a phone call could help. Let them know that this is what you have found. Most programs will take action or do what I did, and get their hands dirty, taking action swiftly.

    But banning them doesn't do any good. The open conversation merchants and affiliates can have together here will lead to a stronger industry overall.

    Have a great day everybody!

    Jamie Birch
    Affiliate and Partner Programs Manager
    Coldwater Creek
    jbirch@thecreek.com
    208-265-3958

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    Like anyone else, give them a chance and if they ignore it then ban them.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vicki:
    Yes, they should be banned.

    By virtue of a merchant having a board here, they are endorsed by ABW.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Exactly. Merchants being here, having their own forums here are -- to me -- ABW's way of saying "These are good guys, I stand behind them"

    'Veni, Vidi, Velcro' - I came, I saw, I stuck around

  23. #23
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    The first time nobody knew Morpheus was stealing. It was found out and they promised to change, so i can kinda see giving someone a second chance. Now that they've been caught for a second time, any merchant that gives them a 3rd chance really doesn't care about affiliates knowing they've taken our money twice and they should be banned from the board. Also Haiko i appreciate this board, but i think the new forum you opened up asking us to help find bugs in Morpheus software will be a lonely forum.

    May all your ups and downs be in bed

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador BareNecessities's Avatar
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    I don't think merchants should be banned from the forum.

    No one benefits from anyone being locked out.

    Perhaps a scarlet M should be affixed to their avatars though.

    Michael

    Michael
    973-621-6211 x 5040
    michael(at)barenecessities.com

  25. #25
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The first time nobody knew Morpheus was stealing. It was found out and they promised to change, so i can kinda see giving someone a second chance. Now that they've been caught for a second time, any merchant that gives them a 3rd chance really doesn't care about affiliates knowing they've taken our money twice and they should be banned from the board.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, I believe a certain world leader was particularly outspoken on that underlying principle a few days ago (sorry in advance to any GWB supporters):

    http://www.bushwatch.net/ourfearlessleader.mp3


    I tend to lean towards Cedric's view that ultimately we are not helping ourselves by allowing those merchants who are accessories to parasitic practices to benefit from all that this community offers. Maybe all merchants who are ABW members should be required to make a public statement on this issue somewhere on ABW in order to retain their membership, so we know where each of them stands?

    - Rex

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