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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    No Grandfathered Bids After Panama Upgrade
    For those that had them:

    "After years of supporting legacy bids that were lower than our current minimum bid requirement of $0.10, we now require all keyword bids to be at least $0.10 for all accounts that have been upgraded to the new search marketing system ."

    http://www.webmasterworld.com/yahoo_...pc/3265200.htm

  2. #2
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    Yahoo wrote: > "After years of supporting legacy bids that were lower than our current minimum bid requirement of $0.10, we now require all keyword bids to be at least $0.10 for all accounts that have been upgraded to the new search marketing system." <

    It's fascinating to see how hard it is for Yahoo/Overture to learn from Google on matters like this. Back when Overture allowed 1 cent bids, I was running tens of thousands of keyword ads at 1 or 2 cents per click. I actually had some keywords that I cancelled because they generated traffic that wasn't worth even 1 cent per click. When the minimum bid jumped to 5 cents, I had many "grandfathered" bids, but they could not be changed -- that is, a 1-cent bid could not be raised to 2 cents, but only to 5 cents or more. When the minimum bid went to 10 cents, I abandoned nearly all campaigns. I have not launched a new Yahoo/Overture campaign since 2005.

    I understand the philosophy behind "minimum bids." (1) Yahoo believes that its advertisers who pay less than a dime per click are earning "extra profits" since the real value of those clicks is 10 cents. (2) Yahoo is concerned that its staff time to review and approve ads is not justified by very-low-click bid amounts which will generate few or no clicks.

    I can't really dispute the cost-of-approval (staff time) issue, although I'm not sure how expensive that is when I saw 30,000 keyword campaigns approved by one staffer in a couple of hours.

    But I certainly disagree with any belief that advertisers who bid less than a dime are earning more money than those who earn more than a dime. I have an awful lot of math to show that for many bid terms, bidding at more than 5 or 6 cents per click cannot possibly generate a profit for the merchant; I have thousand of keywords where I have determined that I can't pay more than 3 cents a click profitably. In some accounts, I've had tens of thousands of keywords "inactive" because they did not meet Google's minimum bid rate; sometimes I keep them because I can capture traffic on the content network for 1 or 2 cents per click, but usually I delete these campaigns after a few weeks if the minimum bid rate doesn't change (often it does).


    I've not heard any compelling reasons to bring any new PPC campaigns to Yahoo/Overture.

  3. #3
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch
    I've not heard any compelling reasons to bring any new PPC campaigns to Yahoo/Overture.
    How about 1.6 billion searches conducted at Yahoo each month?

  4. #4
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    I wrote: > "I've not heard any compelling reasons to bring any new PPC campaigns to Yahoo/Overture." <

    Donuts replied: > "How about 1.6 billion searches conducted at Yahoo each month?" <

    Nope.

    That's certainly a valid reason to consider Yahoo advertising, but after analysis, I find a much smaller opportunity at Yahoo than at Google, because of:
    • Lower conversion rates (by 25% to 40%, on average)
    • High minimum bids


    I'm not going to claim that there is no opportunity at Yahoo, but my current PPC focus (as an affiliate) is on low bid rates, mostly 6 to 11 cents per click.

    I have some clients who continue to earn nice profits from their ongoing Yahoo campaigns with bids from 10 to 75 cents, but the total click traffic and sales are much lower than the same keywords at Google, and the clients draw substantial additional traffic from Google for keywords with bid rates under 10 cents.

    I'll probably look at including Yahoo in my new PPC campaigns later this spring, after I've fully integrated with Google's API, but my expectations will be low at Yahoo.

    Of course, as I've mentioned in other discussion threads, Microsoft's AdCenter is also a questionable placement for me; it has "only" a 5-cent minimum bid, but impression and click volumes are significantly lower than Google or Yahoo. I'd probably integrate Yahoo before I'd integrate AdCenter into my PPC campaign system.

    Finally, another issue: my data suggests that the average transaction size from campaigns at Yahoo are larger than the average transaction size that my clients get from Google. That's a deceptive measure, though, because Yahoo's bidding system doesn't allow bidding under 10 cents, and often that's too much to pay for keywords that typically lead to smaller transactions. On more reasonable measures, such as "cost per dollar of sales" or "cost per dollar of gross profit" or (for affiliates) "cost per dollar of affiliate earnings," I find that Google out-performs Yahoo by a wide margin.
    Last edited by markwelch; March 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 PM.

  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    I'm usually not occupying any low bid spots on the search (not content) side of things, so i think our approaches make us see things differently. Minimum bids aren't impacting me in any meaningful fashion at all - other than interesting discussions in forums. Tightly controlled, Y can be a decent source of ppc traffic in my usual bid realms. And I can understand why your position differs.

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