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  1. #1
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    I will summerize it in a few simple points.

    - All parasitic applications are bundled with (useless, instable) windows applications that are not aimed at doing affiliate marketing through showing ads or pursuing shoppers into pushing the buy button.

    - Users of parasitic applications do not download/install the application for its shopping features. Users download the application for whatever the original application has to offer (free music, free win utilities, download speed optimization (what?), free whatever else can be free...). At this point, these application has no value proposition to affiliate marketing at large. They have a value proposition to Advertising Industry.

    - Parasitic software are downloaded by International / 3rd World users at very high volumes, a user group that has little or no value to online merchants as far as sales and leads are concerned.

    - Writing a useless windows application or an illegal P2P application is not a rocket science

    - Bundling it with a parasitic commission / link / ad stealing virus is even easier

    - Disrtibuting the bundle requires some investment and some good attorneys, which is in many, many people's reach. Consequently, there are potentially thousands of parasitic win virii out there waiting for the perfect conditions to sprout themselves out.

    I am no fortune teller. So the following is not a fortune telling.

    If the parasitic activity can not be stopped NOW, it is going to get ugly. It is going to get so ugly that Haiko is going to have his own parasite out there, I am going to have a few different ones, Webmaster Mike is going to have a really stubborn one, Leader is going to have a parasite farm, Shawn Collins is going to pay $50 a download for his "unbreakable" parasite.....

    It is goint to get ugly. I am not fortune telling. It will hurt YOU, merchants and affiliate networks. The indusry will share a faith with banner ad networks', online sales will extinguish as people will lose faith in merchants due to high volume of parasitic activity along their ways to buy buttons.

    This is not fortune telling. This will happen and I am 100% committed to be a part of the trend unless we put our hands and wallets together and stop this thing TODAY.

    Sincerely,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    Affiliate Marketing is built upon honesty. Tracking is not affected.

  2. #2
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    I'm up for a strike, contributing a percentage of earnings and talking my best merchants out of CJ even if that merchant has never had a parasite in its life.

    I'm up for anything else that might be helpful too. Suggestions welcome. I'm sick of playing nice.


    I

  3. #3
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I am not going to have a "parasite farm" or run even one of them.

    But that's not to say that I'm going to allow my sites to stay small! However, I intend to grow my sites by nonparasitic means.

    As for talking merchants out of CJ, Ice--I've seen a lot of blather from the other networks but blather without enforcement is just noise. I personally would rather be spared the noise from networks who, it turned out, DO INDEED (according to postings from others here) have parasiteware "affiliates" despite their "proclamations" to the contrary.

    There is no knowledge that is not power.~~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #4
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    Yes, in fairness to CJ they *have* spared up the self-serving drivel this time. Cost Haiko less bandwidth and all that.

    OK. I might see about leaving them a merchant to suck dry.

    Two if they really behave themselves.


    I

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    BluesX you can go back 1 year in these posts and find I'd be the last one to have a "parasite farm". I'm too lazy and too dumb to even organize getting someone offshore to make me one. In all my 2500+ posts here and at other boards you'll find I always hated FREEBEE sites for providing the vehicle for Parasites, Duper "incent" programs and billions of spams.

    I knew the power of the internet after helping to put up some sites for 1996 Olympic sponsors like Nike and IBM. I also, after 30 + years in the computer industry, knew the Net's "openess" would be a breeding ground for con-men -MLMers -direct marketers and all the combined stupidity of the advertising industry.

    You are right the merchants and networks have to take a stand on parasites or every tom -dick and harriet will be able to fork over 1000.00 bucks and buy a parasite template script and for an extra 50.00/month get it hosted along side a spamm server. Networks ..get real ..get rid of parasites by cutting off their revenue streams.

    WebMaster Mike

  6. #6
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    Mike & Leader,

    Do not take it literally. The point is there will be a parasite inflation coming from all directions. You and I will probably be forced out of business as we will have no means of protecting our monies from thieves, or we will join the club and become one of them. It will be one of the two, and the choice we make will not necessarily be a one to be proud of.

    I already have invested in such a Plan C. I have a VERY Good idea for a parasitic application. To give you a hint, it is something like, you buy stuff from Overstock.com and Smartbargains.com gets paid!

    If this stuff will be widely accepted as a part of Affiliate Marketing Industry, I have no doubt that this stuff will be the only way to survive.

    Today you can deal with a few of them, but when there are thousands, it will get UGLY, it will get out of anybody's control.

    YES, I will be out there making money sitting on my b*tt while the ethical ones out of you would probably be loking for job openings within one of the better parasite incorporated.

    - BluesX

    ---------------
    Affiliate Marketing is built upon honesty. Tracking is not affected.

  7. #7
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    There has always been and will always be honest and ethical business.

    There has always been and will always be scum of the earth business.

    Just a matter of choice what kind you want to be and who you want to align yourself with -- ethical or scum.

    The choice is always yours.

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    she was tired of being poor, and she wasn't into selling door to door.... CSN

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Murat,

    As much as I respect your impetus, I must, once again question the postulated end results.

    If you were not so against private forums you would see what is happening ... incidents of parasiteware will NOT be an issue ... I'm on it ... mark my word / work ... new phrase ECPC.

    Maybe one day you and I should speak [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Continued Success,

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  9. #9
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    Haiko:

    I am against private forums, only the way private forums are handled on ABW, and it will stay that way.

    As far as taking your word on putting an end to parasitic activity, trust me I probably have more conections and sources than you do. It is not a matter of impetus. The fact is you only represent yourself (and maybe the buddies in a private forum?), I am responsible for my business' well being and I do run my own risk analysis.

    I sure hope I won't be getting to a point where my parasite out there is not challenging enough for you... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] . The matter of the fact is we both want this thing put off. DO not question how much I know, take my word and trust me, I know more than enough.

    Sincerely,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Murat,

    While I honor your intellegence, I seriously question you and your "parasite", or repeated allegations thereof --- If you do initiate such a model you will be dealt with, if it is just words ... then your safe as an affiliate. I couldn't give a shit who you know, as I'm sure they already know what I am doing, proactively for all, not just you [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] !

    Haiko

  11. #11
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    &gt; proactively for all, not just you [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] !

    Don't forget to mention, proclaimingly.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Well I do have a pretty good one and I'd hate to see it getting to a point where you need to deal with it! Hopefully it will be all fine and my parasite will be out there deemed legitimate by affiliate networks.. no need for a parasite judge or a police for that matter [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Best,

    Murat

    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Murat,

    If you do launch one ... you will be dealt with as one! Hey, maybe CJ will accept you as a merchant, this time [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Calling Affiliate Networks & Merchants - It is going to get UGLY <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I cannot believe what I'm reading here BluesX... WTF are you doing? Are you actually stating that you have a program and have plans to use it?

    Some of us don't leave issues like this up to legal matters. And ANYBODY who rips me off will find me on their doorstep~!

    Mark those words. And I'm not necessarilly pointing it at you BX . . . unless it begins to fit your work ethic. When I'm confronted with such a LACK of ethics . . . trust ME . . . parasitic aholes will not receive ethics from me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

  14. #14
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    Its not *quite* what he's saying. What he's 'saying' is that his morals depend on circumstance.

    Rather like most of us, I should imagine, except Blues actually admits it.

    He's saying that should there be no reasonable alternative he will go over to the Darkside/be a Very Naughty Blues.

    While I'd rather see him use some of those darkside skillz in other areas! There are several ways of fighting a bacterial infection. Only one of these is 'introducing a competing bacteria into the system'. I can't help wondering if there is a more spectacular way.

    If I was clever enough.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


    I

  15. #15
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    Sorry to say it guys but Blues is right.

    The trend will continue. No amount of compromise or deal wrangling is going to change it. The allure of a quick buck will drive people to create parasiteware by the fistful.

    Haiko, this is starting to remind me of the long distance industry back in the early '90s where everyone and their brother was either reselling LD or had a contract to sell someone elses programs. The tactics got slick, underhanded and did much to cripple the effectiveness of the industry. Now look at it. The only way to make any money in that industry is to sell or carry a mountain of traffic, effectively rendering the small fry out of business.

    The quick buck artists will grab hold of this and go nuts, hell, don't be surprised to see it marketed by MLM ten levels deep.

    When it happens, see how willing the networks, parasites and merchants will be at negotiation.

    Mike

    Don't Worry Mama, It Won't Get Freaky!

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador BareNecessities's Avatar
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    My two cents.

    Unless a company adds value to the equation, there is no reason to work with them.

    Parasite vendors suck commission from affiliate sites, and from other online sales channels.

    If affiliates do not work with merchants supporting the parasitic applications, then the parasites will only suck the revenue from the merchants other sales channels.

    Eventually, it will become clear that it doesn't make any sense to pay a company a percentage of all your sales when they have nothing to do with the sales process.

    This development is a nasty turn in affiliate marketing, and it causes significant disruption in the process. Confusion, lost revenue, misdirected revenue, lost trust, finger pointing, back stabbing...all of this arises from these companies that are pursuing the approach of providing downloadable applications that attempt to get between the merchant and the consumer, regardless of where and how they find the merchant.

    Some of this is not cut and dry, but fortunately in some cases it is.

    But bottom line is, if you don't add value, then what is the point of the relationship. Affiliate marketing is a partnership between the people that provide product/content, and the people that sell/market it.

    Anyone that gets in between a merchant and it's affiliate sales people is not adding value.

    Best of luck to each affiliate out there that has been affected by this issue.

    Thanks,
    Michael

    Michael
    973-621-6211 x 5040
    michael(at)barenecessities.com

  17. #17
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    I think it is true. People will be able to buy their own parasitic application to distribute in some stupid freeware app they make.

    A lot of the affiliate managers will love it too. When the market gets saturated with these things, they will be able to show their bosses how affiliate sales account for 100% of the company's revenue.

    The ones who do not love it are also facilitating it by just letting the scum back into their programs, sitting back and waiting until the other affiliates notice that the scum have reinstituted their commission stealing ways.

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Michael of BareNecessities said: "But bottom line is, if you don't add value, then what is the point of the relationship. Affiliate marketing is a partnership between the people that provide product/content, and the people that sell/market it... Anyone that gets in between a merchant and it's affiliate sales people is not adding value."

    You do grasp the meaning of a long term relationaship that will survive parasite traps. You see BluesX forgets to factor in the fact that those hundreds of millions who got duped into downloding some FREEBEE, carrying a BHO adwarez/spyware virus, want to disable that portion or toss out the freebee and the whole mess as it ruins their surfing experience. They want to choose when they shop -where they shop - and won't jump through hoops to get some "incent" offer that 70% of the time never gets honored!!

    Let the parasites War over their BHO plug-ins and the consumers WILL react with a hateful vengence. We all know the worth of "pay to surf" or earn points -FREE Lotto type traffic. Basically worthless for merchants as to conversions. The word FREE is dead to all experienced web surfers unless it's free freight. No business will ever survive on thievery and deception like all the P2P networks. They will get legislated and sue out of existance like Napster and Ezula.

    Screw all the merchants who think affiliate marketing is all about advertising. When I find one with that mindset ..I drop them like a rock from my traffic stream. Parasites, like BareNecessities points out, add no lasting value to merchants and certainly don't value their relationship with their users.

    Their is nothing I can do about the Dupers, but they sure will get no play from my traffic as I steer my visitors completely away from their spamming front-ends. A Duper going the parasite route will get my immediate rath and dedication to wipe them and their merchant base out of the affiliate sales arena.

    WebMaster Mike

  19. #19
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    Michael & Mike!

    This is exactly the point I made to Scott Jangro and suggested him to notify befree merchants about the facts and the concerns.

    My point is, if this activity is still largely accepted as part of affiliate marketing, people like BluesX will come up with very good ideas of intercepting web traffic and adding value by actually marketing / selling products.

    It is not OK for anybody to steal anybody else's traffic / links/ ads. This is not limited to affiliate marketing.

    I hope it will never get to the point of no return. But at this rate, I'm afraid it will. Merchants hold the key and most merchants do not see the threat at all.

    BTW I'd like to know what Cyclone is doing to fight parasitic thievery today except threatening to kill me if I become one. Has he killed any one of the current parasites?

    Sincerely,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador BareNecessities's Avatar
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    Hi Murat,

    I agree with everything you said. I get that you were just pointing out that it would be foolish from a business perspective to watch parasitic applications become mainstream marketing strategies, while you sit on the sidelines and scream how wrong they are.

    In fact, if all hell breaks loose and every affiliate and their brother begin distributing these types applications, I'll be surprised if merchants don't begin to offer their own versions.

    I hate what I see happening, and I really hope that all the other merchants just stop working with the parasites. That would be the fastest way to cut them off at the knees, but it will only work if the people cutting the checks stop paying them.

    I can't see any reason to work with them, so I'm watching closely to see what happens with everyone else.

    Michael

    Michael
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    michael(at)barenecessities.com

  21. #21
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    You know what? I think "build me some underwear pages" just got moved to the top of my to-do list.

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.

  22. #22
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    Cedric, I came to precisely the same conclusion. You do bikini, and I'll do briefs.

  23. #23
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    i'll do bikini briefs

    May all your ups and downs be in bed

  24. #24
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    We need someone on boxers.

  25. #25
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    I'll "handle" the thongs [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    Don't Worry Mama, It Won't Get Freaky!

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