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  1. #1
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    It saddens me to see how quickly this community that Haiko has put together is degenerating.

    There are more and more and more posts that are basically just:-

    * Personal insults aimed at merchants/affiliate providers or specific people who work for them
    * General rants and abusive language
    * Wild hyperbolic accusations with little substance behind them
    * Etc., etc.

    Now, the irony of the situation is that with every increase in ABW membership, the community is positioned to make a greater impact in the affiliate market.

    But until people can limit themselves to posting...

    * Facts
    * Reasoned analysis
    * Calm, clear-headed and rational suggestions for improvements and changes to be made
    * NO insults (insults are for the playground - or perhaps the pub - but not for business)

    ... there is no chance of making an impression on the average merchant or affiliate manager (especially - and this bears stressing - those invited to ABW for the first time!)

    There are a lot of things for affiliates to feel VERY aggrieved and angry about right now, but venting is GUARANTEED not to solve them, except on a very sporadic basis where the merchant in question already has a long-standing familiarity with ABW and has learned to discount the more lurid eye-rolling posts and seek out the small nuggets of useful information in between.

    I guess this is a plea for sanity: if everyone makes an effort, we can restore the "signal to noise" ratio of these Forums to a point where meaningful dialog with "the enemy" (i.e problematic merchants/affiliate providers) is not only possible, but both realistic and likely to lead to results.

    Because, right now, the meter's reading about 10% signal and 90% noise, and the ratio's dropping fast...

    Haiko, IMO the single best thing you could possibly do to continue to grow this community into a productive force in the affiliate community is to clamp down VERY HARD on those posters who cannot seem to formulate an argument without resorting to invective and petty insults. If not (and please understand that this is a sad prediction, not a threat!) then this community will essentially be dead (from a usefulness perspective, that is) inside of six months, given the current trend in membership growth.

    Good luck righting the listing ship - it's certainly not too late as long as you bail hard and we all lend a hand!

  2. #2
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    Edwin,

    You forgot to mention that it is your meter reading a lot of noise, other meters may vary and the reading is by no means guaranteed to be accurate or to reflect any facts.

    My meter is reading a lot of baseless "Haiko do this" and "Haiko do that". Lets be more productive (would somebody mind pasting the definition of this word? thank you), shall we?

    Sincerely,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    Affiliate Marketing is built upon honesty. Tracking is not affected.

  3. #3
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I disagree, this community is certainly not degenerating. It is evolving into an effective force. Just because you approach a situation with a certain attitude, or from a certain angle, it does not mean that others cannot agree with your intent but disagree with your presentation.

    I do not agree with some of the things that bluesx says, however, I am concerned that he lost 80% of his income last month, and I certainly understand that he is angry. Many of us are angry for this same reason. We share concerns with different voices.

    The Ghandi approach simply does not work all the time. If you take a look at the number of merchants on morpheus, that number has GROWN while we were being nice.

    Personally, I like the fact that we have angry and calm people here. Calm facts will move some merchants to do the right thing. An angry affiliate might get the attention of others who dismiss the calm ones.

    Morpheus will continue to exist, and if they do so, they will probably end up playing by the rules. But they will be playing by the rules because ALL of us, the good the bad and the angry, will be watching them.

    If you try to please everybody, someone won't like it -Rumsfeld

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager
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    I understand all of your feelings. I really do. However, today I had to take a long walk, calm down, and decide if it was the best decision to keep an Overstock forum on ABW. Bad press is something I can not afford, yet just being here lately has pulled a lot of bad press in our general direction and for no reason I can see.

    My thought today was that maybe it wasn't worth it. I have to agree with Edwin a bit on this. I've asked for details, facts, anything to give me a clearer picture on what is going on. And, I have received next to nothing.

    No data, yet I've had a half a dozen people threaten to leave our program if I don't do something.

    I really don't understand this board sometimes...

    I am sorry for any loss that you have had, and I will always be there for you, but I am terribly worried about the chaotic nature of this board sometimes.

    I wish you all the best...

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  5. #5
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Shawn-

    Yes, you've had it pretty tough, but then you didn't lose 80% of your income last month, either. I would imagine that, when your payroll check was printed out, if it had Andy's name on it, you'd be somewhat ticked at tiger, lol.

    And Andy, of course, [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    This is a speed bump. I've dropped you because I just don't have time for this. I'm replacing you with Amazon, who, by the way dropped Morpheus. You will not notice my absence, though, since I had just begun to send hits, lol.

    I think you should stay at ABW, because the good days outnumber the bad days, and like Ssanf said, just do what you do best, you'll make up the diff in no time.

    If you try to please everybody, someone won't like it -Rumsfeld

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    elbowcreek,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Shawn-Yes, you've had it pretty tough, but then you didn't lose 80% of your income last month, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    With whcih ABW merchant did you lose 80% of your revenue?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  7. #7
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I was referring to bluesx and something he said, that was a comment he made. My point was, we all have concerns about losing money to Morpheus et al, and that some of us react emotionally.

    If you try to please everybody, someone won't like it -Rumsfeld

  8. #8
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    Just to clarify my 80% loss, It is lower in Overstock's case, still a loss but not high as 80%. I did not give Shawn any heat for it. The only post I made on the hot! thread was to guide him towards understanding the frustration level. I apologize if it was misunderstood.

    But still, his rejection of the other affiliate coordinator's proof is sort of .. umm.. vague! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Sincerely,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager
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    elbowcreek - I'd hate to see you go over this, but that's your decision. To compensate you for any loss you may have occurred, please read the following post:
    Click Here!

    I know it doesn't cover your total loss, but that would have covered any loss of Overstock's sales.

    Good luck,

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  10. #10
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I can't believe a guy with pneumonia is staying up later than me. Go to bed already! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    If you try to please everybody, someone won't like it -Rumsfeld

  11. #11
    Affiliate Manager
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    You'd think I was really crazy if I told you that I have my work phone number forwarded to my cell phone then, wouldn't ya?

    Always working,

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  12. #12
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Okay, okay, I lose. I'm going to bed!

    If you try to please everybody, someone won't like it -Rumsfeld

  13. #13
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Edwin,

    The shit is hitting the fan ... I agree 100%!

    Is it justified? Have the complainers generated more than three sales a month? Most have not and that is the biggest kick in the head!

    Affiliate marketing is not trusted third parties, because they [affiliates] question them and basically don't! Sometimes justifiably, some times not and the problem here is that a highly proactive merchant, who has busted their but over the past six months is getting blasted for being away and not turning on a dime.

    What if Shawn sees that Wurld is no clean? the damage that has been done is irreparable no matter the earned good will via bonuses or DRMs he has set up ... that, to me is seriously messed up. For many months Shawn has worked to 3am EST and he is in Utah, he has emailed and worked with many affiliates to maximize their sites, created new DRMs etc and has gotten shit because he didn't act in 10 minutes, but yet has greatly enriched his affiliates and the industry by his hard work!

    Guess what ... the guy who needs an iron lung is surfing this board, testing Wurld and feels like shit because you turned your back on him because he didn't decide in 24 hrs ... I closed the original thread so that YOU ALL can think about it! ... signal to noise ... those who perform with overstock .. don't post ... and the ones who don't do ... why is that? Is it Shawn's fault that you don't? I think NOT!

    This is a sad day for ABW and real merchants ... for all the other Ams and their daily painstaking work and ungodly hours .... what's the purpose?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  14. #14
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    &gt;those who perform with overstock .. don't post ... and the ones who don't do ...

    One of my life's regrets will be posting on that thread. I wasn't aware that hell was broke lose there! I'll pay Shawn back.

    Shawn, wanna go back to Ibiza? It's on me!.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Mr. Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    Did you bring a towel to the forums?

    Your sarcasm is dripping all over the floor, please have some peon, of yours, clean it up [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  16. #16
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    I know I'm generally not liked here, but.... This is one thing that saddens me. The "good" merchants, the ones who actually come to ABW and communicate with their affiliates are sometimes really unfairly hit hard with backlash from us affiliates when they do something we don't agree with. Whereas a lame affliate who doesn't even bother to communicate with their affiliates is mostly exempt from this, just because they are "off the radar screen" and that sucks. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

  17. #17
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    I find it inappropriate to respond to above post here. I sent Haiko a priv. If he sees it appropriate he can paste it onto here.

    Sincerely,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional

    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  18. #18
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    Haiko, have you yourself seen the overwriting of affiliate links for the second time? I thoght you mentioned that in the grey line thread. What did you mean when you said "Any pilfering / poping up or sliding on any affiliate traffic is Bloody theft!" ? I'm just trying to understand, i thought you had screen shots of this happening.

    May all your ups and downs be in bed

  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Murat,
    Professional / selfish whatever

    Post it yourself if you so desire! ... Your the one who did nothing on your "plans" from A YEAR AGO! I did and continue to. Propaganda only goes so far!

    BTW how was the BBQ? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  20. #20
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    &gt;Propaganda only goes so far!

    Propaganda? Man do you see yourself looking at me?

    &gt;BTW how was the BBQ? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Was great. Did you hear that Rick from JCWhitney flew over from Chicago just for that? I mean Shawn had a really small backyard! (P.S. he mentioned you said you might stop by!)

    Best,

    Murat Ates
    Affiliate Marketing Professional (Hint: As in Investment Professional)


    ---------------
    "Seat Belts - Click it or Ticket" ~Garden State Parkway

  21. #21
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    >>>Propaganda? Man do you see yourself looking at me?<<<

    Did you mean to say ...
    Propaganda? Man do you see yourself when you are looking at me?

    Not withstanding ... NO, I'm not as selfish as you.

    >>>Did you hear that Rick from JCWhitney flew over from Chicago just for that?<<<

    Yes, I do speak with our AMs

    >>>he mentioned you said you might stop by!<<<

    Who, insignificant little ol me? I had an appointment in Pine Brook at 4pm and unfortunately had trany fluid and gasket problems so took it to the shop at 8:30am but they said don't do it! Ok I heard Herbert and you were going to be there and since I'm not ambidextrous I decided not to show since I wouldn't be able to decide who I should fight [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] (J/K)

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by johnniebry:
    Haiko, have you yourself seen the overwriting of affiliate links for the second time? I thoght you mentioned that in the grey line thread. What did you mean when you said "Any pilfering / poping up or sliding on any affiliate traffic is Bloody theft!" ? I'm just trying to understand, i thought you had screen shots of this happening.

    May all your ups and downs be in bed<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Johnnie ... it is bloddy theft Period, and today for example I've actively working for 18 hours on this and it's resolution.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Edwin,

    I have repeatedly posted in this thread to exploit the noise ... the same noise that merchants are facing ... I'm working on a resoltuition for all and God willing the networks will not be (|)Heads!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  24. #24
    Full Member Jungleland's Avatar
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    There seems to be two things at work. There should be a category for informational sharing purposes and should be a place (this category I suppose) for people to blow off some steam and pose the touchier theories and questions. People do run a LOT hotter in this forum than some of the others I often read. But, in their defense, many of these issues run close to the pocket book, so you should expect some heated arguments. (Morpheus and other parasites have me pissed too!)

    The fact is I really like ABW, and even though I haven't been here very long, I've been in AM for several years.

    BTW Shawn, it isn't all bad news, because of YOU, and that you ARE here, I ran some of your links and although I could only manage six orders so far this month (you are not very strong in my area of concentration) thats six more than you would have had from me, and you are now integrated into my main site.

    "Don't let yesterday take up to much of today."

  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager
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    Jungleland et all,

    I greatly appreciate your kind words. It's nice to see after a rough week on the boards. I hope things will slow down a bit more and give folks a chance to relax.

    Your friend in the trenches,

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

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