Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    March 8th, 2007
    Location
    CT - USA
    Posts
    2
    [edited out] no names please.
    We just received our first sale via an affiliate. Interestingly, this particular customer had recently ordered from us 3 times in the month prior to our joining shareasale. I am wondering how this new partner of ours “edit” was able to get credit for this sale. I can’t find a link to our site on any of their pages?? Anybody have similiar issues?

    [This is an issue for SAS shareasale AT shareasale.com]
    Last edited by Adam Ward; March 14th, 2007 at 09:24 AM. Reason: NO NAMES PLEASE

  2. #2
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    6,195

  3. #3
    Affiliate Manager rcampbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 26th, 2006
    Location
    Hood River Oregon
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by briangreenho
    I am wondering how this new partner of ours “edit” was able to get credit for this sale. I can’t find a link to our site on any of their pages?? Anybody have similiar issues?[This is an issue for SAS shareasale AT shareasale.com]
    This usually means the affiliate is a pay per click affiliate. Make sure in SAS you have rules on your PPC if you don't want affiliates to bid on certain terms. There are some great threads about the advantages and disadavantages of PPC affiliates. Good luck.

  4. #4
    Internet Cowboy
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,662
    Your trademark has no doubt been poached. Some affiliates will only bid your trademarks in the PPC search engines in an effort to do what has just happened, monetizing your own customers. Some merchants are OK with this, others are not, most are clueless that it happens.

    You have to ask yourself if you are happy paying a commission to an affiliate who has not brought you a new customer.

    Before you overreact and forbid PPC or something like that, please know that This is not what a good PPC affiliate does. Good PPC affiliates bid on terms relating to your products or services, therefore adding value to you and bringing you true incremental sales. The underbelly of the PPC game is those who bid on your trademarks trying to make easy money at your expense.


  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager
    Join Date
    February 8th, 2007
    Posts
    57
    I actually noticed the same thing today in my program with [edited out] no names please., I was going to come on and ask the same question
    Last edited by Brian - ShareASale; March 14th, 2007 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #6
    ShareASale President/CEO and ABW Veteran Brian - ShareASale's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    3,657
    Creating, managing, and policing a PPC policy is one of the most important tasks that an Affiliate Manager has. This is to the benefit not only of the merchant, but to the affiliates who are participating in PPC and obeying the rules.

    The worst mistake you can make with this issue is to not have a policy at all... affiliates will see this as a lack of understanding for some of the core issues in affiliate marketing.
    Thanks,

    Brian Littleton
    President/CEO - ShareASale.com, Inc.

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    affiliates will see this as a lack of understanding for some of the core issues in affiliate marketing.
    I disagree; most of my merchants don't have any PPC policy. That alone isn't really a signal in either direction. A bad PPC policy, on the other hand, can scream of cluelessness or worse.

    I only think they lack understanding if I see ignorant things emanating from them and/or their staff. For example, if I get a merchant begging me to put their link on "my home page" it tattoos the word "clueless" on their forehead. And that's just one of the more minor things that let me know that the merchant really has NO idea how things really work.

  8. #8
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 22nd, 2007
    Location
    West Covina, CA
    Posts
    8,443
    I know its off-point, but worth a few lines:

    Leader wrote
    ...if I get a merchant begging me to put their link on "my home page" it tattoos the word "clueless" on their forehead.
    Whenever I am negotiating with a merchant for a highter commission rate, the first thing they want in return is a home page link.

    Back on

    briangreenho wrote:
    ...I can’t find a link to our site on any of their pages??
    It could be something other than PPC. Sometime last year, someone I know asked me if I had a certain product available on any of my sites. Not only did I not, but I had no merchants that sold this item. I looked around and found what they wanted at a great price, joined the merchant's program, and emailed my friend a link, which she used to buy the product.

    I tried for quite awhile to figure out something to do with this merchant, and finally was able to add a few of their links to one site, but that was not a good fit, and has generated zip.

    Now, several months later, I have build a new site around one of this merchant's product lines, and have hopes of doing really well with them, quite a while after that first sale with no site links.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  9. #9
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    You should be able to get the referring URL via the transaction details report. This will tell you if they are simply poaching your brands via PPC advertising.

    I have an affiliate bidding on our name (in violation of our PPC policy) and just made a second attempt to contact them. If this one bounces, they're out.

    It wouldn't be so bad if they bid on any other words, but they only seem interested in our brand.
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  10. #10
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    5,904
    Leader:

    I disagree; most of my merchants don't have any PPC policy. That alone isn't really a signal in either direction. A bad PPC policy, on the other hand, can scream of cluelessness or worse.
    And I respectfully disagree with you I think a merchant that allows bidding on their OWN trademarks isn't really looking too much at their program. I've seen it with people I represent(ed).

    The merchants that ask us about PPC policies tend to be the ones that are earnest about driving NEW sales through affiliate marketing. And that's what this business is about.

    I will, however, agree with you that is by no means the only benchmark by which to judge a program.
    Kevin Webster
    twitter: levelanalytics

    Kayak Fishing
    Web Analytics and Affiliate Marketing

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Quote Originally Posted by briangreenho
    Interestingly, this particular customer had recently ordered from us 3 times in the month prior to our joining shareasale. I am wondering how this new partner of ours “edit” was able to get credit for this sale.
    Could be a friend or acquaintance...

    As for not finding a link, sometimes I'll slap up a page with a tracking code on it in response to a particular query--and then take it back down once the order is complete. If someone from ABW asks for a tracking link, for instance, and I don't want to show my "real" sites, I'll just put a one-pager on a backwater site as I just described.

    As for the reason for taking such pages down, they usually only say CLICK HERE or something like that, with no pitch (the person's really ready, and has usually said something like "first one to PM me the link wins")...which is not something that'd get sales from the general public.

    On the merchant side,
    Last year I got a repeat sale from a guy who'd ordered the year before, both times credited to an affiliate.

    I figure the customer is the aff's friend, and he reminded him to reactivate his cookie (or the customer did so on his own, knowing that it'd pass a commish if he did). He's in another state, but in this business, distance doesn't necessarily mean anything.

    I figure, it's still a sale I wouldn't have had. Plus I know the aff from prior dealings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noth
    I think a merchant that allows bidding on their OWN trademarks isn't really looking too much at their program.
    Or they asked WordTracker how many searches TheirName gets, and it comes up 0, so no real point in prohibiting it

    As a merchant, if I had a nationwide TV ad or something going that brought searches to MyName, my opinion MAY change. Or not: if some customer's a putz and doesn't click free-listing #1 (where a famous brand usually is, when searched for by name), I still want that order. Some people just WILL NOT click/buy from #1...it's for the psychologists to care why, I just know that it happens.

    Plus, people are weird and some seem to prefer to go through some other site rather than directly; perhaps they want to feel that someone "agrees" with their idea of buying from that merchant before they'll get out their credit card...even if that "agreement" is coming from a blatant sales site.

    Now if all the affiliate is doing is a direct-to-merchant PPC link, then yeah, that's not adding much value (if any), and I may consider a ban. But the final determinant would be: Is the affiliate bringing more sales with the bid, or just poaching from the ones I really would have gotten already? I think it would be dangerous to just assume one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffiliateHound
    Whenever I am negotiating with a merchant for a highter commission rate, the first thing they want in return is a home page link.
    They're still clueless; otherwise they'd know that often, the home page is not the most popular page. I have several sites where the only ones to go to that page are myself, and robots. Human visitors go to the back pages that come up under whatever they're searching for.

    And usually the way they go about it, it shows double-cluelessness: They don't specify which of my sites they're talking about! I almost gave one a link on the front page of my personal site just to make a point.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    Could be that the person saw your affiliate link and decided to join so they could earn on their own purchases.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    One other possibility - they could be advertising through Zango or Vomba.

  14. #14
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    He's a pro TM poacher, it's all he does. Signs up with every program, in every network and bangs away until you fire him. He obfuscates his urls via redirection to make it confusing to snooping affs, AMs and others, as well aspreventing TM protection tools, like SAS's ppc policing tool, from catchign him in the act. It's disgusting because he knows that no policy or a bad policy or even rock solid policy, along with great numbers he can post, means merchants are reluctant to fire him and deny payment. And he hides behind a domain name where most people would guess he's some kind of ppc tracking tool or a third party agency. From the number of times I see his TM ads, I'd bet he's one of the highest paid individual affiliates anywhere. Remarkable for him since he's not introducing any new customers at all. He gives affiliates a bad name. He's one of the primary reasons why a sound policy and vigilant policing efforts are required to protect your trademark and domain name this type of activity, where merchants have decided against it or haven't thought it out (and many time, where it's forbidden).

  15. #15
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    He's a pro TM poacher, it's all he does.
    Why is he still in business on SAS? If what you say is true, I'd hope he'd get booted.

    Really, I wish more merchants would take legal action against the parasites and scumbags, but at the very minimum, I wish more merchants would monitor their affiliates and report any bad behavior to the networks. The only reason they keep getting away with this stuff is because we let them...
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    It can be a legitimate case where a merchant allows TM bidding, so SAS isn't to say that it's right or wrong. A merchant should decide. Many either haven't decided or don't have the time or know-how to police things. To SAS's credit, they built a tool to make it very easy for merchants to enforce their ppc policies. Sneaky affs can get around the SAS tool (as with most technology barriers), but to me, all that means is that it's more obvious when they get caught, that they were being deceitful. Either find merchants that specifically allow TM/domain name bidding or ask first. It is my opinion that doing neither is taking advantage of the lesser informed merchants (by the way, SAS does lots to educate merchants and participate in education type events). So the affiliate is intentionally ignoring the concept of partnership and is gouging the less-than-informed merchants. He makes a ton, I assure you - but he's not building a sustainable business model with his actions. Once merchants realize what he's doing, those that oppose it, boot him quickly. Even those that may decide later to allow TM bidding wonder why he has the chutzpah to bang on their site's trademarks and domain name without asking.

    By the way, this is reason #3,217 why companies are foolish for not considering an OPM to manage their programs. Every OPM at ABW knows who this guy is - he's everywhere. They also know exactly how to consult with their merchant clients to make an informed decision about their own ppc policies and how to enforce them whatever they are.

    There's so much behind the scenes work that an OPM does and so much synergistic power they have because they manage multiple programs and also network with their peers. They aren't chiming in here because the policy choices aren't right or wrong, they're the decision of the merchant - and where an OPM has discussed both sides of the coin and their merchant has decided to disallow it, they've already booted this jerk.

    This is a merchant issue really. OPMs have a firm handle on it. SAS has built tools and tracking and policy guidelines and policy entry spots to make it easy for merchants to make their choices and put things into play as they see fit. Other networks have behaved somewhat like SAS, but more so have made design and interface choices that make it less easy to enforce and police the merchants chosen policy - because there's so much money involved.

    Where the abuse comes in, is with merchants who lack education. Andy teaches tm / domain name protection at his seminars. The rest of the OPMs here all know what to do already. If you're an OPM-less merchant, give that some thought. There's much more to being an OPM than just recruiting... much more.

  17. #17
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    Donuts, rest assured I wasn't bashing SAS for allowing the practice. As you said, some merchants have no problem with it. What I was trying to say is that when there is abuse of a posted policy, the worst thing that usually happens is the offender is they get booted from a single program and have commissions reversed on outstanding sales for that program.

    This does nothing to halt the same affiliate from abusing the PPC policy of the very next merchant that comes along. This isn't a shortcoming of SAS, but rather that they may not be getting feedback from the merchants whose policies are being abused.

    My reply in relation to SAS was specific to the TM poacher you described. From what you described, it sounds like he pretty much flies in the face of every posted policy of every merchant he signs up with. Some of the promoted merchants may be fine with the practice, but the lack of attention to which are and which are not is abuse of the network and its clients. If that's not enough to get an affiliate canned from SAS, I'd be a little surprised.

    On the other hand, if merchants aren't reporting violations, that doesn't give SAS much grounds for taking action, which is where the point I was trying to make comes in.

    Anyhoo, hope that clarifies.
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  18. #18
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    Well, well.
    Checked G, and there it is.

    He's violating my policy that says he can't use my URL as the visible destination URL in PPC bidding, which applies no matter which term is being bid on.

    (To me this is a bit seperate from just bidding on the MerchantName, since a person could bid on the name and still be using their own page.)

    So...
    *Boots*

    He didn't make any sales, so I have nothing to reverse on him. (That "nobody looks for that term but me" problem may have had something to do with it...)

    I don't have many restrictions, but the ones I do have are there for a reason.
    they may not be getting feedback from the merchants whose policies are being abused.
    They've gotten feedback from me as of now.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  19. #19
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,833
    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    They've gotten feedback from me as of now.
    They just got some from me as well.
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  20. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. So CJ Misses Another Downtime edited (Not)
    By Trust in forum Commission Junction - CJ
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: September 6th, 2006, 10:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •