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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    People,

    I see an actual addendum from Linkshare, and everyone goes after them ripping them apart while CJ, Performics and BeFree go free from any attention? Umm, hello!

    The standards meeting requires that all of the top 4 networks agree to at least hold parasites contractually bound. Instead of poo-pooing LS's ACTIVE stance I'd suggest posting in the CJ, performics and Befree forums and ask them why they will not make all affiliates adhere to this addendum (or other applicable)!

    Then go back to the Linkshare forum and compare your results!

    The meeting may not be all that affiliates want right now, but getting all networks and parasites to agree to be bound, then we are miles ahead than we are now ... step by step and rung by rung!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  2. #2
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    Haiko, not sure why you closed a thread started by LS - but okay here goes. I think People protested because this is just another step towards greying the issue.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you read the terms of our Addendum, you will note that it prohibits affiliates from blocking, altering, substituting, redirecting, etc. any click-throughs that originate from a LinkShare Network® affiliate site. Based on our testing, the current version of Wurld Media's technology, which powers Morpheus Shopping, complies with the terms of our Addendum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is the issue. That is the issue. And I will repeat - that is the issue.

    While people like Kirk like to say affiliate converted traffic makes up a miniscule part of their traffic, networks like to say it is not a big issue - then if it is so small, why not like the BeFree proposal, disallow any conversion of affiliate links - regardless if some boat is flashing or the user has to take 3 steps? Either it is an issue, or it is not.

    And to address some people's complaint over why aren't more affiliates posting and being concerned and posting? It is getting harder and harder to enter a conversation, only to have that conversation cut short because the outcome was not that of what the powers to be wanted. How many more threads will be closed because the discussion goes to what is really worrying other affiliates and not what we are told we are worried about?

    Chet

  3. #3
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    Chet - Excellent post!

  4. #4
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think People protested because this is just another step towards greying the issue.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    YES!

    You can cut down a weed; it will grow back again.

    You can pull it up by its roots; a new one will grow.

    You can drain the water table; problem solved.

    Just because my domain is open to the public, does not make its contents public domain! ~ Ice

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    Nice post Chet. I just would like to add that I have seen a decrease in revenue from a lot of merchants that used to convert very well. But Ever since Morpheus came online I have had to try different merchants online. As they have not converted after a hard targeted effort though google. So I will keep on working at it. but It makes me mad When freebiesforever.com first came online we were actually doing well. but now it seems like the once hot merchants are not converting at all. I will keep on trying. Anyway that's my 2 cents.

    Jason

    Santa Cruz, CA 95060

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Chet,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you read the terms of our Addendum, you will note that it prohibits affiliates from blocking, altering, substituting, redirecting, etc. any click-throughs that originate from a LinkShare Network® affiliate site.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ummm that is the solution! not the problem because Wurld F'ed up does not diminish the addendum, nor it's power.

    Umm the BeFree proposal, is not a Legal document, so ... it's toilet paper! A combination would be better but lets take this step by step.

    No regarding posts being closed ... count them and then post the number .... until then the mob mentality is getting affiliate no where and freaking fast at that. It is easy to see that the companies who who take a stance get flamed to high hell and the ones who say nothing get nothing ... hmmm ask CJ, BF and Performics ... then see!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  7. #7
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    You left off the second line.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Based on our testing, the current version of Wurld Media's technology, which powers Morpheus Shopping, complies with the terms of our Addendum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They allow anything outside of the browser to prompt users into action to divert the comission. They clearly allow wurldmedia to circumnavigate the issue. Unless wurldmedia changed their program yesterday, this is the issue.

    I would rather have a good idea written on toilet paper than a bad idea written as a legal document.

    Chet

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Chet,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You left off the second line.

    ===========
    Based on our testing, the current version of Wurld Media's technology, which powers Morpheus Shopping, complies with the terms of our Addendum.
    ===========

    They allow anything outside of the browser to prompt users into action to divert the comission.

    Please, explain to me how they do, I mean since you've had a lawyer look at it!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They clearly allow wurldmedia to circumnavigate the issue.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Applesauce! Once again, explain to me how!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I would rather have a good idea written on toilet paper than a bad idea written as a legal document.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well then your another affiliate who thinks a step backwards is better than moving forward ... did you ask CJ, Performics or BeFree why they won't make it contractual? DID YOU?

    Ask a lawyer then complain about the addendum, if applicable, until then ask the networks what they are doing!

    Chet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  9. #9
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    smessers's own words.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you read the terms of our Addendum, you will note that it prohibits affiliates from blocking, altering, substituting, redirecting, etc. any click-throughs that originate from a LinkShare Network® affiliate site. Based on our testing, the current version of Wurld Media's technology,
    which powers Morpheus Shopping, complies with the terms of our Addendum. While I have read a lot of discussion on the tool bar icon, I have to draw a line between the efforts that take place in the browser window and the needs of these new business models to work with their legitimate customers. In the end, the gray area is the difference between "parasiteware" and plain "competition." In some ways all competition is parasitic. Take Macys opening a store next door to Bloomingdale’s or for that matter every store on Madison Avenue. Each of these players is trying to get a customers dollar away from the next. What we as a society accept is the consumers right to choose where and with whom they spend their money. What we do not accept as a society is the competition walking into someone else’s store (the browser window) and pulling out the original stores customer. If the customer looks out the window of Macys and sees a sale at Bloomingdale’s and subsequently leaves to spend their money where the sale is taking place, (perhaps on the same product) is this not fair competition. So our addendum tries to help clarify the line between what is acceptable competition, and what is unethical stealing. We are in no position to stunt technological innovation where it provides value to the consumer in an ethical fashion, the policies for which we have outlined in our Affiliate Addendum.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Can you please explain to me how he is not saying the flashing icon is allowed to alert the user and allow them to click and cut the affiliate out of the comission? Maybe messer and I are both getting it wrong?

    Did You Catch This?

    Chet

  10. #10
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    I'm sick, so I hope this makes sense...

    I'm just tired of feeling like I am getting screwed by big business.

    I'm just tired of them thinking I should be happy about it.

    I just tired of feeling like they don't give a rats behind.

    I am just tired of being told this thievery is a "new business model."

    I'm just tired of being treated like they don't appreciate my honest efforts to make money for the both of us.

    I'm just tired of feeling like I am being used.

    I'm just tired of being talked down to by big business.

    I feel like the old movie where everyone opened up their window and yelled:

    I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT TAKING IT ANYMORE!!!!

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Happiness is a choice that requires effort at times.

  11. #11
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    The counter-point to smessers post is simple.

    I don't care if wurldmedia makes a million dollars a day. I don't care if they give out their software with free copies of officeXp. I don't care if they advertise their buyersport and traffic to my affiliate sites drop because people are so happy shopping on buyersport. I don't care if they make money off of empty traffic the merchants normally gets for free. I don't care if they get money because linkshare gives them $10 for every grain of sand on the beach.

    That is the choice of the network and the merchants, if they want to play favorites, give them different cookie durations etc - I DO NOT CARE.

    I just care that in the current model, their success is hinged on my failure. I don't mind competition, I mind unfair competition. And that is what is happening with wurldmedia, but messer refuses to see it. They are still being allowed to use MY resources to hijack MY comissions at the last step.

    If they followed the BeFree proposal, I would never post about them again. Because then I WOULD NOT CARE!

    Chet

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Chet,

    Can you answer one of my questions before you continue?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Can you please explain to me how he is not saying the flashing icon is allowed to alert the user and allow them to click and cut the affiliate out of the comission? Maybe messer and I are both getting it wrong?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Umm they are not allowed to pop up on affiliate traffic .... did you miss that?

    Unless all networks agree on step one,and affiliates stop acting like a mob or want to be lawyers maybe we can take a step further!

    Did anyone ever think of that?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Umm they are not allowed to pop up on affiliate traffic <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What about WhenU?

    I'm starting to feel like a parrot.

    What about WhenU? What about WhenU? What about WhenU?

    Just because my domain is open to the public, does not make its contents public domain! ~ Ice

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Chet,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I mind unfair competition.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Did your lawyer read the agreement? It says they can not pop up on affiliate traffic. What part don't you understand?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If they followed the BeFree proposal, I would never post about them again. Because then I WOULD NOT CARE!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Because you'd be so reamed because there is no contractual obligation ... just good will, LOL!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  15. #15
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    I'll thank Linkshare for providing an adendum and
    for taking a stance and for being here and telling us what they are doing.

    I don't thank them for saying morpheous is in complience and that they will allow toolbar applications to clue visitors that can "still" "steal" my work and commsions from it.

    While attempting to provide a standard, it seems to me they have in fact opened the door even wider to thieves as a so called standard that most affiliates don't like.

    Be prepared for an invasion of toolbar applications to snatch our every commission in the next two years and completly destroy the affiliate marketing as it's known today.

    But to the thieves - "they wont last either" a force will come along that truely inovates this industry but using toolbar methods to steal commissions surely isn't it!

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Deelz,


    Can you please show me an example of WhenU poping up on affiliate traffic.

    I think this will solve your parrot issue.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  17. #17
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    It was on a LS Limoges link, on somebody elses computer.

    I'll download Kazaa and some of the other BS she had, to see if I can duplicate it.

    Just because my domain is open to the public, does not make its contents public domain! ~ Ice

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    happypoon,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't thank them for saying morpheous is in compliance and that they will allow toolbar applications to clue visitors that can "still" "steal" my work and commsions from it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Let me say this again, they can not take affiliate commissions.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>While attempting to provide a standard, it seems to me they have in fact opened the door even wider to thieves as a so called standard that most affiliates don't like.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, because the other ad networks have done SH!T only a few of the parasites have endorsed this addendum. If it was all the ad networks verbiage then things would be totally different toady.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But to the thieves - "they wont last either" a force will come along that truly innovates this industry but using toolbar methods to steal commissions surely isn't it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The first force is called an Industry standard!

    Why are we all poo-pooing this?

    Ask your Favorite network why they have no legal contracts to preclude such activities and Linkshare does! Ask them!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  19. #19
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    Haiko
    Could you clarify this for me?
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't thank them for saying morpheous is in compliance and that they will allow toolbar applications to clue visitors that can "still" "steal" my work and commsions from it.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let me say this again, they can not take affiliate commissions.

    If a visitor has the program installed on their computer and they come to an affiliate site the installed tool bar is showing on their browser correct? Then after viewing the site they click on that logo in the tool bar instead of clicking on any of my links and instead shop from Buyersport for instance, would that not be stealing traffic if not commission? What am I not seeing? I don't doubt what you are saying I just don't understand.
    Cazzie

  20. #20
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    Haiko,

    Have you had a lawyer look at it?

    Mike

    Time to Worry, Mama. Things are about to get FREAKY!

  21. #21
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Phooey on them and their task bars. Their sole purpose is to divert commissions from the web site that did the work and paid the money to attract the customer. Their task bars should be shoved where the sun don't shine and the customers can't see them.

    Anything less is NOT acceptable!!!!!

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  22. #22
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If a visitor has the program installed on their computer and they come to an affiliate site the installed tool bar is showing on their browser correct?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Technically no. They have an icon that shows in the sys tray at all times.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Then after viewing the site they click on that logo in the tool bar instead of clicking on any of my links and instead shop from Buyersport for instance, would that not be stealing traffic if not commission? What am I not seeing? I don't doubt what you are saying I just don't understand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The icon does nothing while it is on your site. The thing is, the icon does not ever do anything unless the end user is already on a participating merchant's site. They have no opportunity to right click the icon and possibly go to the buyersport site until they are already on the merchants site.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  23. #23
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    PARTICIPATING MERCHANTS

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Cazzie,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>tool bar is showing on their browser correct?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Incorrect!

    Close your browser and look at your system tray the items still stay there no? Those are TSR programs and the Wurld toolbar would be there also.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Then after viewing the site they click on that logo in the tool bar instead of clicking on any of my links and instead shop from Buyersport for instance, would that not be stealing traffic if not commission?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Incorrect again, download it and see it for yourself.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  25. #25
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    Thanks
    It is clearer to me now
    Cazzie

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