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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    I think the parasites are laughing right now because we have become cannibals. A lot of in-fighting going on and what has it accomplished?

    I don't think much will come of the meeting, it is a step but i'm a realist. We all act as independents, i don't think any of us have enough money to go to court against Morpheus. There is no affiliate union, we are a bunch of independents with lots of ideas of how things should be done. Be honest and do you think the networks will ever drop the parasites? No.

    The focus should be on the merchants. They decide who they let in. They may belong to CJ, LS, Performics, BeFree but they are independent also. They make decisions on who to let in. Take a look at some of the merchants who are affiliated with Morpheus. I see a lot of brick and mortar stores who have spent millions on building their brand. There online sales pale to their retail sales. They can't afford bad press. Being associated with parasites who have stolen, who have software that helps distribute copyrighted material, music, porn etc. That will hurt them. They need to be educated about this. Some have and have changed. A lot of merchants on this board have. The biggest online merchant, Amazon has. Why? They can't afford the association with parasites. That association is for short term gain not long term growth. I've seen merchants here saying once they became aware of the problem they dropped them. I think most people who post here, have done more posting than emailing or calling a merchant on the phone. Like Happypoon pointed out they need to be educated on this: That merchants are paying commissions on:
    a) Purchases where a user went to their site directly.
    b) From bookmarks a user has made.
    c) From a user typing in a URL directly
    d) From as a result of search engine traffic

    Thats just stupid. It's stupid if they know this and keep doing it. But many don't know. Also educate your competition about things like Ebates. Tell them they are promoting a competing affiliate who has a program on their site that could take away commissions from them. That's not to bright. But they need educating. I think people are waiting for some miraculous event to happen and destroy all the parasites. The only way to get rid of parasites is to take away their food. If all the merchants dropped them, that would be the end of them.

    The focus should be on the merchants and how in the long run it's just plain bad business to be accociated with parasites. The more merchants that drop them, the more will follow. People follow leaders. People copy what works. I think Amazon dropping them helps a lot, because they are the biggest.

    FOCUS----> Merchants

    If all the girls lived up in trees, what a good climber johnnie would be.

  2. #2
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    I totally agree with you. I'm sure that not much will come of the meeting, in terms of rules or standards. But if the networks can agree on setting up a formal forum to address these issues, for the future, that would be a huge step.

    We must ourselves fight the battle in every way possible:

    - pressuring the networks
    - informing the merchants (do anybody have a list of merchant AMs, do they receive any news about this)
    - setting up detection scripts on our sites which informs visitors who are spyware infected (yes, spyware, not parasiteware)
    - formalize our intellectual property, create a spyware-tag and an EUA, use it on our sites and tell parasiteware makers not to interfere with sites with that tag
    - work with the press
    - inform other webmasters

    Only by winning enough battles can we win the war.

    It's sad to see the current fighting at ABW. I guess some just have dug themselves a hole and are beyond listening to anything. I noticed you posted a "How about this" message yesterday, not getting a single reply. BLFH started a thread (in Suspicious Activity) to post only suggestions to, no discussions. So far I'm the only one who have replied in that thread.

    Maybe this is something we just have to go through.

    But the fact is, if anything at all shall come from the meeting, then there has to be a well written "lawyerish" proposal on the table - and that proposal has to be prepared and mailed to the participant two weeks before the meeting. The meeting is four weeks away, and all we do is fight.

    -- Less is more --

    [This message was edited by Cellophane on October 08, 2002 at 07:51 PM.]

  3. #3
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    Does anyone know how many merchants know what parasites do on there pages when they steal the money? Because I thought that if merchants knew about all this we wouldn't need to go as the merchants would takes the people to court them selves.
    But if just one person is allowed to go for all the merchants then that person might be bribed by the people who steal the money or maybe threatened.

    Yours,

    Kenshin

  4. #4
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    Kenshin, would you kindly please move your bashing and your conspiracy theories to a new thread, or the thread where you're already doing it in: Wayne Porter to facilitate Industry Standards Meeting.

    -- Less is more --

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    I think we're all at the stage where we have to let out a bit of the frustration we've been feeling the past few months with the parasites stealing from us.

    Amongst the angry posts and arguments, there have been some great ideas and suggestions posted, and I think a workable agreement will eventually come out of all this. Whatever happens, in the end not everyone will be in agreement. You can't please everyone, so there will be a few that don't feel their interests have been represented.

    But I think the one thing we all agree on, as affiliates, is we don't want anyone stealing commissions from us. Regardless of how they're doing it. If the action to buy originates on our site, the sale should be ours. Period. And perhaps that's what the agreement ultimately needs to say:

    IF THE ACTION TO BUY ORIGINATES ON AN AFFILIATE SITE, THAT SITE IS PAID A COMMISSION FOR THE SALE.

    That keeps it simple. There are many great people here at ABW, all working to make things better in the affiliate world. Because of these efforts, things will be better for all of us. It will just take a little time.

    Andy

  6. #6
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    I am sorry if I offended you cellophane. I thought it was obvious that you needed more than one person as they would be vulnerable and if they had to represent a lot of different busnesses well you know how that kind of thing often turns out. I am sorry everybody and I am sorry if I offended you cellophane. You seem like a nice person but it doesn't change the fact that each merchant who might be effected by any new agreememt needs to know what is being done in their name and done to their pages.
    What is wrong with that? That isn't a conspiracy theory that is just good business.

    Yours,

    Kenshin

  7. #7
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    Andy,
    I agree with you too. Your "bottom line" is right on the mark. The road we choose to get there - well, that's another story.

    But it's my opinion, and as johnniebry suggested, that we are to focused on the meeting. I'm convinced the networks wont come out with a signed agreement (with teeth), that's just not the way these kind of agreements are made.

    What we should do is put together a list of preferred actions for all areas - and then execute those actions firmly.

    If we target the merchants, as johnniebry said (good idea), then we have to do that in a systematic manner:
    1. put together a list of merchant AMs, complete with name, email adresses, etc
    2. set up a website (like parasiteware.com, but without the bashing)
    3. send out newsletters, and publish information at the website
    4. follow up on merchants that respond
    5. identify and target important merchants, call them, invite them to meetings

    To be able to do that we have to act systematically, as an organization:
    a) put together a small group of ABW members to carry out and administer the efforts, and to keep up the heat. Those who participate has to speak with one voice.
    b) generally agree upon what kind of information to publish (my suggestion: make it short and simple - less is more)

    In other words, we have to be professionals.

    Some of this has likely been done already, by Haiko and others, but if the rest of us are going to walk instead of talk (or post), this is IMO the way we have to go.


    -- Less is more --

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Great stuff guys!

    I wanted to set up affiliatetrust.org to enforce (sue infringer's via surrendered commissions From their ill gotten gain) and (ideally) have the networks notify all merchants of the acts. I really don't see the networks doing that, so I think we will need to notify all the merchants based on the review of the affiliatetrust "board" (merchants and affiliates), I'm compiling a DB of all the AMs addys right now.

    Thoughts?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  9. #9
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    Somebody who posts peoples private messages and lies about them setting up a board and takes their words and passes them off as his own while banning them from speaking is going to have quite a job getting people to hand there money to him on trust.

    yours,

    Kenshin

  10. #10
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    No one is getting control of my money but me, that's my thoughts.

    Vicki

    Happiness is a choice that requires effort at times.

  11. #11
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    Vicki,

    I agree. If any of the stolen commissions are recovered they should be paid to the proper affiliates.

    Heidi
    Fit2a-t: The Center of the T-shirt Universe!

  12. #12
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    Yeah. No more parasite activity, PLEASE!

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

  13. #13
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    Of course because they dont become less stolen just when someone else spends them that isn't you either.

    Yours

    Kenshin

  14. #14
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Kenshin,

    Do share [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

  15. #15
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    I don't know about the rest of you but I'm sick and tired of Kenshen undermining every thread here.

    Haiko you have my encouragement to ban.

  16. #16
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    Mike you you are welcome to contact anybody you would care to ask through any medium that is not subject to censorship.

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

  17. #17
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    Excellent!

    I would like to see some suggestions as to how such a task force should organize, and what kind qualifications are needed in the group.

    My though is that we need two groups. The task force itself, and a very small reference group made up of senior affiliates and AMs. For the reference group I'm suggesting Haiko (if he will participate) and another affilliate, and one or two AMs dedicated to the case.

    The task force would first of all have to put together an action plan and submit that to the reference group for quality control.

    Any volunteers should step forward now (or in PM to Haiko, if that's ok with him). Personally I would suggest that those who participate has their mind set on working for a longterm goal, with the ability to negotiate and focus on facts, rather than being obstructionists.

    -- Less is more --

  18. #18
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Me Mike???

  19. #19
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    Heyder - please....

    Kenshin is a sycophant of Icicle's, and has been spouting really vile things about Haiko all afternoon and evening. Don't ask this person for more info.

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Allow me to elaborate.

    If XYZ parasite stole $10K in commissions, that would be divided per click to all the affiliates for the infringing period and might equate to $0.01 per click however, that same $10K could be used to ream the infringer (and send notice to future infringers) with a real suit with damages and your $0.01 could equate to $1.00 per click (or more). I don't want your money, but why not maximize it?

    No one will show for a meeting, no one will donate for a legal fund, all you will do is trust your "un-policed" third party who allows this ... OK!

    Think please!

    If anyone has a better suggestion I'd love to hear it.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  21. #21
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obstinatedon:
    Don't ask this person for more info.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    why? afraid someone else will learn the truth of what has been happening around here for over a week. How those who dared to share their opinions were silenced & abused banned or censored?

    Heidi
    Fit2a-t: The Center of the T-shirt Universe!

  22. #22
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Heidi get real

    The only person was Ice and her posts were nothing but attacks.

  23. #23
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would like to see some suggestions as to how such a task force should organize, and what kind qualifications are needed in the group.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If this suggestion bears fruit and goes ahead, I will use every legal means at my disposal.
    nuff said.

    Vicki

    Happiness is a choice that requires effort at times.

  24. #24
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Don, yes I do know what's going. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    Crazy Cat Lady Heidi's Avatar
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    Heyder,

    I'm very real and I've experienced some of this myself in the past week. So have many others here who dared to voice a differing opinion.

    Obviously you have chosen to not see it.

    Heidi
    Fit2a-t: The Center of the T-shirt Universe!

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