View Poll Results: Would you team up with parasiteware for a percentage?

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  • NO! Absolutely not - not for anything!

    28 77.78%
  • Maybe

    2 5.56%
  • Yes - if I got 2% of the total sale

    0 0%
  • Yes - if I got 5% of the total sale

    0 0%
  • Yes - if I got more than 5% of the total sale

    6 16.67%
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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    If there were no getting rid of parasiteware, as a publisher, would you team up with them for a percentage of the business they derive from your site? What percentage would it take for you to do so?

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    We'll take all your money with the promise that will give a portion of it back to you? hmmm... I don't think so. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    -------
    Dawn is nature's way of telling you to go to bed.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Oh...of course, there would have to be a "trusted third party" to make sure no one was getting ripped. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Guess I failed to mention that... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Andy

  4. #4
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    No no, if you take ALL my money, I'm getting ripped.

    If you take ALL my money and then give a portion of it back to me, I'm still getting ripped.

    Even if you use a trusted third party. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    -------
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  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I think the response to this poll will be 98% no, the 2% are the affiliates who already are teamed up with them ...

    Affiliates of Gator, eBates, grab.com etc. Some people will work for nickels in stead of CPA ... look at how many affiliates they already have!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    What prompted me to post this poll was the "grey area" topic. I've been thinking about that, and wondering what it would take for me, as a publisher, to give up my full commission on traffic I sent to a merchant without feeling like I was ripped off.

    Then I started thinking about what was going on at Amazon with the used books. For a long time, visitors who clicked on an individual book link (which should pay 15%, if you're living well) would be delivered to an Amazon page that also offered used books of the same title. Some of the used book sellers also had brand new copies for sale.

    Amazon didn't pay the referring site for that sale if the user bought a used book. This created an uproar, and Amazon is now paying a small commission to referring sites on used book sales. This may still not be fair, but the uproar over the used book issue has died down considerably since this gesture.

    So, I started to consider how I would feel if one of the parasites extended a similar offer to me. I just thought it would be interesting to see what everyone else thought.

    Andy

  7. #7
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Nope no amount would do. I'm not in the habit of paying out blackmail money. Or would that be protection money. Or a bribe. Oh goodness,now I'll all confused about what that type of payout would be. Sure sounds like some type of Mafia payout to me though. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] They can just continue to steal the whole commission until they are shutdown completely from the stealing of affiliate commissions.

  8. #8
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think the response to this poll will be 98% no, the 2% are the affiliates who already are teamed up with them ... ~Haiko<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Wrong...that assumption is too blanket!

    Currently I know of no parasites that will pay up a serious commission (if they DID they wouldn't be parasites anyway), but I answered this poll based on this reasoning:

    As long as I get the commission I normally would, I'm not too particular about who's signing the checks. Just as long as they pay up.

    If someplace pays me 10% {forget that 5% stuff--too cheap!} for "automatically popping up (or similar tactics)" on my site, then it is also NOT a parasite since it's not sucking my "blood" and I'd authorize its presence. At 10% they would be paying the same thing as most of my merchants already do.

    Of course, if they show up without my authorization that's parasitism! But if they paid me the exact same thing as a standard link would--that's totally different.

    I wish there was a "10%" option because that's how much "more than 5%" it'd cost 'em. In other words, they'd have to pay like a real merchant!

    And for the record, I am NOT dealing with any Parasiteware/Incent companies. None of them have decided that actually paying affiliates a real, serious percentage commission (and therefore no longer fitting the definition of "parasiteware") was something they want to do.

    There is no knowledge that is not power.~~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #9
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Leader,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Currently I know of no parasites that will pay up a serious commission (if they DID they wouldn't be parasites anyway), but I answered this poll based on this reasoning:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Why would a paraiteware co pay a "serious" commission?

    Look at M. Coley http://www.amazing-bargains.com ... what does he pay? $0.05 then work your way up the "parasite" list at CJ or any network ... their game is not paying ... it is EXPLOITATION and ad networks encourage it! Sad no?

    Shoot where is that link to Dealtime [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] LOL, maybe we should et a slotting fee or better than the $0.15 cpc, they obviously pay more than that on the various engines! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    True, they're not going to pay it!

    But the hypothetical poll question had the possibility of "over 5%" as one of its answers.

    I didn't respond to this thread based on there being any actual likelyhood of them REALLY paying real commissions--but based on the purely hypothetical "possibilities" in the poll.

    As for Coley though--Not that I approve of him/his site, but that's a different matter than outright theft. What he's doing seems to be right up-front and out there, and if someone is so chicken about their own selling abilities that they'll knowingly take 5c/click to direct traffic at another affiliate site...then they're getting what they deserve IMO. I haven't seen evidence that Coley is actually stealing, or otherwise involving those that want no part of his program. In cases like Coley's, what I find especially sad is that affiliates can SEE that his site is just another affiliate site--the same as they could be running--and yet they settle for sending him their traffic at a stinking 5c/click anyway.

    (In defense of CJ I remember them wanting to dump ALL those CPC places but Coley came up with a work-around so he could stick like a leech anyway!)


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why would a paraiteware co pay a "serious" commission?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Under the current circumstances, they won't--the only reason they'd have to start paying a serious commission, is if they can't get away with theft or cheap anymore.

    The networks are only one part of the problem, though--the networks are responsible for allowing the theiving companies to profit through them, yes--but affiliates who sign up for a program like Coley's need to see that there are MUCH better options!

    There is no knowledge that is not power.~~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #11
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    Coley is a good God fearing boy... laff. what is wrong with what he is doing?

    I'd Never send him traffic, but, how is his affiliate program any different than ABW's? Sure he is an affiliate himself and it seems dumb to send him traffic, but, I don't seem him doing anything illegal or immoral or even shady, like gator, etc does.

    If I'm wrong please correct me as I'd really like to know. Mike has always seemed like a nice, straight up guy to me.

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As for Coley though--Not that I approve of him/his site, but that's a different matter than outright theft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ignorance is bliss in this situation of "theft" the guy has an affiliate program wherein affiliates get paid CPC for CPA deals that they should be getting, even after CJ denounced the CPC crapola.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd Never send him traffic, but, how is his affiliate program any different than ABW's?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Simple we pay to get affiliates to LEARN ... he pays affiliates so HE CAN EARN! Not to mention we pay 10X what he pays [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>... like Gator does.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Same shoot different smell!

    No offense to M. Coley but I have always found him parasitic, capitalizing on the lack of information afforded to affiliates, and FIND THAT parasitic! God fearing or not! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    No way would I be any part of any Duperaffiliate organization regardless of any promises to keep on paying my commission rate. The greedy never pay regardless of how agreements read. I'd never expect anyone here or elsewhere to send traffic to EcomCity or my other affiliate sites for a few cents on a dollar. I also do not take kindly to small merchants who plaster their own affiliate enabled sites with their own coded links to outside merchants.

    Dealtime and amazing-bargains play the margins hoping they can get commission rates like eBates does...double mine and most of yours. When they exit with their monies they will leave the duped affiliates high and dry.

    WebMaster Mike

  14. #14
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    Here's an interesting sub-issue that is relevant to this thread: where did the parasiteware come from?

    By that I mean e.g. if they downloaded it from my site, does that then guarantee me the %age (whatever it may be) no matter which affiliate links the parasiteware owner now visits?

    In other words, if there was parasiteware that "knew" who "owned" it (in the sense of "which site was I downloaded from) and then paid a future %age share on all transactions through ANY parasite link it includes on any site, on an ongoing basis.

    Personally, I still wouldn't promote it, but I can see this having more appeal than the "we'll steal your money then give a bit back..." approach since while it might e.g. steal 80% of my commission from Merchant A by bypassing my cookie, I'd also be getting 20% on Merchants B, C, D, E etc. whose cookies I didn't set myself.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Simple we pay to get affiliates to LEARN ... he pays affiliates so HE CAN EARN! Not to mention we pay 10X what he pays [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]
    Haiko_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Well, you don't really pay ten times as much, because not everyone converts into a lead, so if you break it down too how much you earn per click, you may be able to earn more per click but not ten times as much.
    The percentage for everyone that downloads the bho sounds like the best option for some affiliates, I'm sure we would see sights just promoting their program so they could get the percentage of sales from other sites and thus just concentrate on getting the bho on users systems.
    Then you would have some enterprising webmasters who would somehow figure out how to change the affiliate id through active x or something, so they would be stealing from the affiliates who where stealing from other affilates who got the users to download it too start with. Where would it and when will it all end?

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, you don't really pay ten times as much<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Excuse me ... our offered rate is 10X what he pays.

    I will not get into affiliate leads that are tracked as "converting" but are bs leads in this public thread as this is not the topic here.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]I will not get into affiliate leads that are tracked as "converting" but are bs leads in this public thread as this is not the topic here.
    [QUOTE]
    Hmm, well then you shouldn't bring it up, that's not what I was saying, and I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but if you got something to say to me, then you know how pm works.

    I wasn't talking about your offered rate, all I was saying was you would have to convert 100% of your clicks to pay that much, and I don't think there is a lead program anywhere that converts 100%. I was just trying to say you can break it down to per click with any program, and you would have to pay 50 cents per click, or average 50 cents per click to pay ten times what he does. I just hope to be that good someday, hehe, although I guess as long as you are happy with how much you earn from a program, that is all that matters.

  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>No offense to M. Coley but I have always found him parasitic, capitalizing on the lack of information afforded to affiliates, and FIND THAT parasitic! God fearing or not! big grin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Haiko,
    I guess I see your point. Though its only ignorance that someone would not investigate where they are sending their traffic. But, I guess capitalizing on that isn't very righteous...

  19. #19
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd never expect anyone here or elsewhere to send traffic to EcomCity or my other affiliate sites for a few cents on a dollar. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I guess you mean you wouldn't expect another affiliate to do that because that's exactly what PPC engines, Inktomi, and Google AdWords do--send traffic to sites for a few cents on the dollar.

    In fact, any form of advertising you make a serious profit off of is sending traffic to affiliate sites for a few cents or less on the dollar. If it wasn't for places sending traffic to our sites for dirt cheap or free we couldn't make any money at this!


    There is no knowledge that is not power.~~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Yes, I am well aware how Pms work qball, I've been using infopop for over three years thank you. If I cared to PM you I would have!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I wasn't talking about your offered rate,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Well, it is 10X of coleys! NO?


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>although I guess as long as you are happy with how much you earn from a program<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not a F*CKING DIME ... I wanted to build a force not make money!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>... that is all that matters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, 8ball ... what matters is not money today ... what matters is continuance of the industry in an ethical manner ... not your shit about amazing-bargains nor min about how we offer 10X more then them ... BUT .. what we are doing!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  21. #21
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Monuit:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>No offense to M. Coley but I have always found him parasitic, capitalizing on the lack of information afforded to affiliates, and FIND THAT parasitic! God fearing or not! big grin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Haiko,
    I guess I see your point. Though its only ignorance that someone would not investigate where they are sending their traffic. But, I guess capitalizing on that isn't very righteous...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No it is not!

    Whats next ... over charging for crutches?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  22. #22
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>No, 8ball ... what matters is not money today ... what matters is continuance of the industry in an ethical manner ... not your shit about amazing-bargains nor min about how we offer 10X more then them ... BUT .. what we are doing!

    &lt;font size="2" face="Verdana"&gt;Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    What's with the personal attacks Haiko? 8ball? I didn't bring up any sh*t about amazing bargains, you did, all I was saying is you can break down any program to pay per click, for example, this program I'm in at CJ I've made 445 dollars and sent them 4366 clicks, which works out to about 10 cents per click. So even though they pay me ten bucks per lead, I average 10 cents per click, wether that is because of my crappy websites or not, that is another story. Understand?
    What do people average in yours? What we are doing is trying to learn how to make money and find fair merchants to do it with, I think some would disagree with you about it not being about the money. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    BTW, Is that how you win arguments, taking away someone's ability to post?

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Look, first of all Read what wrote, not what you tried to alter it to.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BTW, Is that how you win arguments, taking away someone's ability to post?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Your ability to post was NOT removed, your posts went into moderation Que.

    now ... "Eubeen / qball"

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Reply To: Would you team up with parasiteware for a percentage? in Midnight Café Edit Message
    by qball0213 on September 14, 2002 at 05:01 PM from IP XXXXXXXXXX
    Moderation reason: User's posts set for moderation in forum.
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No, 8ball ... what matters is not money today ... what matters is continuance of the industry in an ethical manner ... not your shit about amazing-bargains nor min about how we offer 10X more then them ... BUT .. what we are doing!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_</font></p>
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    What's with the personal attacks Haiko? 8ball? I didn't bring up any sh*t about amazing bargains, you did, all I was saying is you can break down any program to pay per click, for example, this program I'm in at CJ I've made 445 dollars and sent them 4366 clicks, which works out to about 10 cents per click. So even though they pay me ten bucks per lead, I average 10 cents per click, wether that is because of my crappy websites or not, that is another story. Understand?
    What do people average in yours? What we are doing is trying to learn how to make money and find fair merchants to do it with, I think some would disagree with you about it not being about the money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    As per the Board Moderation clause of our rules, which specifically states:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Any creation of new aliases on the board by an offender will immediately result in full denial of review and a full ban.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I wish you adieu.

  24. #24
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    I'm not sure what you have against me. I've never done anything to you. Perhaps it's because I'm a merchant? I'm much more of an affiliate than a merchant.

    My affiliate program might not work for you, but it does work well for many of my affiliates.

    I realize that $0.05 CPC isn't a lot, but when you consider how few of those clicks actually convert into buying customers, it's a break-even proposition for me.

    The affiliates I have who are using my dynamic links are seeing some wonderful click-through ratios. Some are getting the equivalent of $2 CPM or more.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

    P.S. Congratulations on the community here! You've done a good job. I hope to have time to participate here regularly.

  25. #25
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    Goodbye Harry!

    [This message was edited by Haiko on October 09, 2002 at 07:32 PM.]

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