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  1. #1
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    Saw the NY Times articles and the strong stance being taken against all parasiteware especially WURLD since it appeared that they had once again reared their ugly head... Great job guys!!! Now finally these guys will realise that this is a problem that isn't going away!!!

    I was a little confused with Haiko's most recent posts claiming WURLD is in compliance... I thought they were out of compliance??? Did something change? Saw that they removed their "sliders" and have signed a contract with LinkShare...Seems like good news but I won't be happy until ONE DEFINITIVE STANDARD IS WRITTEN AND AGREED TO!!! No loopholes, wiggle room, or grey. We need to keep an eye on these guys!!!

    Picked up on a thread started by Connie concerning ebates and the lack of action from the networks...Followed up with some of the merchant lists on the other parasites and found the following:

    Guess who belongs to ebates?????

    Amazon.com
    Amazon Babies
    Amazon Toys
    AKA Gourmet
    BackcountryStore
    Bare Necessities
    Bath and Body
    Coldwater Creek
    eHobbies
    Harry & David
    Hotwire
    JCWhitney
    Priceline.com
    Sea Eagle
    Target at Amazon
    Tiger Direct
    Zappos.com Shoes

    Some of these merchants have members on this board!!! Especially Bryan, Michael, Jamie, Rick and Andy !! Shame on you all...We can't point the finger at the affiliate networks for selectively inforcing rules when many of the merchants who have publicly blasted wurld are still "proudly" prticipating with the biggest parasite of them all!!!!!!!

    Maybe a few of us should go to CJU and not just confront CJ and eBates, but the merchants who claim to be against parasites yet still proudly partner with the biggest guilty party!!!! Does eBates do something that is acceptable that would allow these merchants to remain members??? If I am wrong let me know, but I was really surprised to see some of these merchants supporting our biggest enemy!!!!

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Seven,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I was a little confused with Haiko's most recent posts claiming WURLD is in compliance... I thought they were out of compliance??? Did something change? Saw that they removed their "sliders" and have signed a contract with LinkShare...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They are in compliance with the Linkshare addendum and BeFree's proposal, they changed their software to be in compliance.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Seems like good news but I won't be happy until ONE DEFINITIVE STANDARD IS WRITTEN AND AGREED TO!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    November 7th is the date, lets see what happens.

    Regarding your list of merchants, have you seen that many of them do NOT allow for the redirects? (eg. TigerDirect) it is a static shopping link.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Yes, there are a lot of merchants that claim to be parasite free but still participate with Ebates. Many aren't aware of this issue of them redirecting links.

    As for any of the Amazon stores, plus a few others on ebates, it states "coupons only" and those merchants do not participate in the rebate or reminder service, and I assume it is just a straight affiliate relationship.

    So my Amazon links are safe.

    Seems to me all merchants could still chose to participate with ebates, but opt out of the reminder service if they wanted to.

    That would be a good compromise for me.

    Make them get their sales the way the rest of us have to, through our sites and through email newsletters. That way they stay away from my links!

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The networks built the engine to automate these "incent" coupon guys to Lord over us. They don't have an army of perps ..just a skeleton staff with a BHO Affiliate Application.

    WebMaster Mike

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    They don't have an army of perps ..just a skeleton staff with a BHO Affiliate Application.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    No Mike, they have a Weasel!

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
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    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Connie - www.flamingoworld.com

    All around the mulberry bush the flamingo chased the weasel

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
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    Is there anyone in here who could document some of these link hijackings on video? A broad assortment of skulduggery captured on video might be a useful tool in the toolbox.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    You don't really need to video it, just have a computer handy with the program on it. It is so obvious it is pitiful! No attempt to hide it.

    Connie - www.flamingoworld.com

    All around the mulberry bush the flamingo chased the weasel

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    Connie, I don't mean just to have a look at it, I'm talking about documenting it for future reference.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Oh, so if they fix and we need the proof later for undisclosed purposes!

    I am not the one for the webshots, or videos.
    Not unless you want to see a lot of shots of my thumb!

    Anyone?

    Connie - www.flamingoworld.com

    All around the mulberry bush the flamingo chased the weasel

  12. #12
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    If a merchant is on a site, they support that publisher and their business practices, no matter what degree they participate. For these merchants to claim to be against parasites yet still support a publisher who hijacks links is in my opinion wrong. I am just very disappointed in the merchants who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk!

  13. #13
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seven:
    If a merchant is on a site, they support that publisher and their business practices, no matter what degree they participate. For these merchants to claim to be against parasites yet still support a publisher who hijacks links is in my opinion wrong. I am just very disappointed in the merchants who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Seven,

    Where do you draw the line? Am i going to cut off every relationship that i have with affiliates because of their different business models? NO. I draw the line when they are stealing from my affiliates and from us using OUR name, company or products.

    Let me state it again, ebates does not redirect or pop up any Tiger offers or incentives. I removed us from that program last year. We are only listed as "coupons only" which we don't have anyway, but that is their solution.

    We don't participate in their Mo Money deals....

    Ebate's checks with us are allot less than what many of our top 25 partners earn. That should give you an indication about their business model.

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com
    ICQ: 175010
    AIM: miamitigercub

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Hopefully this meeting will bring about network policies thta parallel your thinking Andy. Muzzle the mad dogs if you don't have the guts to put them down for good. Overall TD gets cherry picked, like all other prominent merchants, but the optional merchant choice for the parasite infected shopper have nothing to offer in a price/service advantage.

    Now if you showcase a merchant who is a Mo Money eBates client or who allows Morpheus/Kazaa/LimeWire/Gator in the front door your dead meat. The dumb or greedy merchants do not realize affiliates like me can compare last 2 years figures for the exact same time frames and see how parasites & Dupers kill my income possibilities. Clicks to sales ratios can no longer be an accurate figure, since the clicks are redirected with no chance for a sale.

    Summary stats show me on increased traffic to my Malls this year the following.

    Linkshare total income YTD DOWN 47%
    BeFree total income DOWN 29% ( TD sales helped)
    CJ total income Down 59%.

    The combined group of BHO Affiliate Applications hijackers have milked me for a pile of work and commissions. Until they are muzzled by a restrictive TOS no middle of the road established affiliate like me can make ends meet.

    WebMaster Mike

  15. #15
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    Andy Quote:

    Let me state it again, ebates does not redirect or pop up any Tiger offers or incentives. I removed us from that program last year. We are only listed as "coupons only" which we don't have anyway, but that is their solution.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    That is not the point…There are hundreds of other merchants who naively see that Tiger is affiliated with eBates and see that as a seal of approval. Why do you do business with them even on a limited basis??? Shouldn’t this be a matter of principle!!! They are stealing from other affialtes who play by the rules… Your explanation seems to be “they don’t steal from me, but everyone else is on their own” You are a leader in this community… If a company treats one group of merchants like slave, and another fairly just because they got caught, that is a bad company. I wouldn’t hang around with a guy who beats his wife because he hasn’t hit MINE yet…

    The only reason I can see for sticking with eBates is because they ACTUALLY have customers… Why use the parasite stuff if they can drive traffic as Andy seems to say… Mike, did you ever consider that maybe the decline in your traffic has to do with something you are doing? Or not doing? Maybe the economy…I can understand a popular site like ClubMom getting pilferrd, but do you run one of these very popular sites that would be the target of parasites??? Just curious…maybe you are being targeted…

  16. #16
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    When we were on Be Free Ebates was a major performer for Mondera, we moved to LinkShare and this has dropped to nothing, totally nothing now they have been dropped, is this due to the difference in how LS and BF track the sale, I don't know...

    Top Moxie is a viscous little piece of software, however from what I am learning about WhenU directly from their sales people..it's tame...so far WhenU have told me that they can advertise my site on any URL that contains targeted "contextual" keywords...which means the reverse is also very very true (more so since we don't work with them)

    While Ezula is nasty for targeting words on a page the tagerting of URLs within my site due to the use of a word like diamond / shoe or computer is down right evil, I have yet to install WhenU, and would rather not, anyone with screen grabs please mail me.

    Cheers

    Chris

    Chris Sanderson
    Mondera.com Partner Management
    90 Return Days : 100% Parasite Free : Fast Support : Commission on ALL Sales.

    Visit the Mondera Partner Support Zone : Click Here

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The networks and merchant's have turned what used to be moral questions into legal technicalities. In today's affiliate world, network executives and affiliate managers are more likely to ask what they can get away with legally than to worry about what's fair and honest.
    When there's a question of propriety, e-marketers must do what's right for the sake of the brand which might get compromised by "Guilt by association". Especially now as these Affiliate Applications breed like rats.

    More important, merchants and networks need to be open about what they do as media and snooping affiliates uncover devious activities. What more is brand than the customer's perception of the product, price or service? If an enduser's system gets hung up by spyware/adware competing programs or Gator type Popups they grow to hate the advertisers shown. Get a virus from spamm e-mails thta destroys your data and you'll hate all spammers. If your brand and its manifestations across the Internet -- your site, your ads -- are perceived to be hiding something under the hood or worse, deceiving users into thinking they get some loyality reward which never gets paid or honored, you're in trouble brand wise!

    The bad PR of getting in bed with parasites is just getting started and like Andy has pointed out they do not ever plan on monitizing anyone who might be considered commission thieves.

    here are some FTC documents on ethical guidelines:

    The FTC's "Dot Com Disclosures" http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/dotcom/

    The FTC's "Advertising and Marketing on the Internet: Rules of the Road" http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/ruleroad.htm

    WebMaster Mike

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