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  1. #1
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Merchants with 2nd tiers?
    As I have built my affiliate business, i haven't really focused on 2nd tier sales (for affiliates that sign up under me). But my tiers now regularly exceed $6,000 per month in income. Seeing it's size, I've decided to invest some time and focus in it. Most of my tiers are at indies, but I'm now looking for programs at SAS that have 2nd tiers (the 2nd tier search is not working for me right now, i've reported it, but thought I'd call out for decent rates here anyhow). I'm just listing ones I think are good, perhaps up to 10 programs, to list on one of my sites - a low traffic one at that. It's slow recruiting, but adds up over time. So if you have a program at SAS and you want me to consider helping you recruit via second tier payout, let me know. Huge preference for exclusive SAS merchants, on autodeposit (a MUST!!!) that are managed by OPMs / AMs that are active on ABW.

    If you're an AM / OPM and know i'm in your program, get them tiers thingies turned on at SAS and let me know - if i'm working with you now, you're in if you have 2nd tiers.

    You can PM me if you want to be considered, I suppose. But since I massaged and cemented this idea jointly, while fishing with my ABW buddy, would be best to post it here for other affs to see.

    Ideal post would be...

    Merchant Name
    signup link at SAS
    2nd tiers = x%
    autodeposit = yes
    sas exclusive merchant = yes

  2. #2
    Internet Cowboy
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    Yep. Those fish were privy to some 'high-level' affiliate marketing talk and this was one of the topics.
    I would suggest that merchants with a second tier make this information easily available to your affiliates. I have recently found second tiers I did not know existed. Post it here and everyone will know about it.

    To add to Donuts' post, I will say that I prefer product merchants as opposed to lead/offer merchants.


  3. #3
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Black Cat Mining
    http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale...rchantID=11556
    2nd tier = 20%
    Autodeposit = yes
    SaS exclusive merchant = yes

    We carry gold prospecting, rockhounding, gem hunting and metal detecting books and equipment.

    Our average order is around $60 and our most expensive product is still under $80. We're adding several new products in the next week or two that are in the $250 to $650 range, so I expect our average order to increase a bit. Conversion is decent and there's still zero competition in SEO, PPC, etc.

    Feel free to give me a call if you have any questions, or are just curious. Email works too and they're both in my sig.

    Cheers!
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    As I have built my affiliate business, i haven't really focused on 2nd tier sales (for affiliates that sign up under me). But my tiers now regularly exceed $6,000 per month in income. Seeing it's size, I've decided to invest some time and focus in it. Most of my tiers are at indies, but I'm now looking for programs at SAS that have 2nd tiers (the 2nd tier search is not working for me right now, i've reported it, but thought I'd call out for decent rates here anyhow). I'm just listing ones I think are good, perhaps up to 10 programs, to list on one of my sites - a low traffic one at that. It's slow recruiting, but adds up over time.......
    .........
    Thank you Donuts,

    It looks that focusing on 2nd tier sales it's better than focusing on how we do the Mod_Rewrite thing and still wind up on the supplemental G. crap at the end anyway!

    It's way much better to find 10 2nd tiers affilates making money for us, than to try to find just one new merchant that will deliver the same amount of cash next month.
    ...

  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Mr. Sal, making a living off 2nd tiers is tough, it's more of a thing that comes along with time. Think of it a little like building a small pizza restaurant that once in a while you rent out for parties... making a pizza party place from the start will likely fail. Ok, chucky cheese managed to do it, but 10,000 other pizza places start with the main activity of making pizzas and along the way they pick up enough exposure to add parties to their biz to make a little extra. So get back to your mod_rewrite studies.

  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Black Cat, man, you serve a small, small niche audience. I like focused niches, but while I seek out narrow (focus) ones, I look for depth (of audience) as well. I've reviewed your site and checked out some other things as well, everything checked out fine. I love niche selling, but you lack the audience depth I'd normally look for. By depth, I mean volume - so this is not a knock against you - you have your niche and appear to serve it very well! One major thing I convey to affiliates that I mentor is to pick a niche and move to dominate it - so I'm listing you despite your small audience size, because everything else but your depth screams yes to me.

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Andy, Kristin, Nunez, Greg and other OPMs with programs at SAS... thinking about looking into adding a 2nd tier commission for your programs so I can help you recruit?

    Because this is just gravy for me, I don't care a great deal about the absolute size of the 2nd tier comm (I've listed at least one of my fav SAS programs that has no tier comms). But I think it's worthwhile for AMs/OPMs to consider.

  8. #8
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I would strongly recommend that merchants do this on a case by case basis through a private offer. (Can that be done on SAS?) Most affiliates don't like second tiers (they want the whole commission) and don't actively recruit other affiliates.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager
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    Hi Donuts,

    AC Lens has two tier commission in place. Here's the details:

    ACLens.com
    http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale...erchantID=7335
    2nd tiers = 10%
    autodeposit = yes
    sas exclusive merchant = no

    Let me know if you have questions.

    Thanks

    Bob

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Thanks for starting this thread, Donuts. I've been working on getting affiliates to sign up on 2nd tiers for a while (passively, and slowly - which works ok), but am really thinking about ramping it up a bit.

  11. #11
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I would strongly recommend that merchants do this on a case by case basis through a private offer. (Can that be done on SAS?) Most affiliates don't like second tiers (they want the whole commission) and don't actively recruit other affiliates.
    I agree with this assessment. But if you've decided to have them already, flaunt it to those chasing it. Forgetting this thread for a second, limited private offers would be my suggested plan as well. As part of your recruiting plan, I'd say make limited private offers to those who train affs or provide aff info, not just letting normal aff activity sweep in extra comms by chance (because it reduces what you can pay out in your first tier, so it's better for affs themselves as well).

    I also wondered if SAS has ability for private offer 2nd tiers... anyone know?

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    aclens / RD, i'm an aff of yours and wasn't aware of 2nd tier. thanks. in.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    aclens / RD, i'm an aff of yours and wasn't aware of 2nd tier. thanks. in.
    Great...let me know if you need anything.

    Thanks

    Bob

  14. #14
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    Brian doesn't get back until Wednesday.

    That idea would have to be added as a function.
    Merchants would need to make a request.

  15. #15
    OPM Queen Kristin Kinsey's Avatar
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    I am not seeing anything about making a private offer 2nd tear ... but would love to see it.
    KK

  16. #16
    AM Navigator Geno Prussakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristin Collier
    I am not seeing anything about making a private offer 2nd tear ... but would love to see it.
    No, SaS doesn't have anything like this in place at the moment. Once you start having that 2nd tier, you offer it to every affiliate that looks into joining your program. Private offers may work well in cases like D's case above. I would like to third (or is it fourth) the motion of adding a function like this to merchants' control panel.

    Geno

  17. #17
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Black Cat, man, you serve a small, small niche audience. I like focused niches, but while I seek out narrow (focus) ones, I look for depth (of audience) as well. I've reviewed your site and checked out some other things as well, everything checked out fine. I love niche selling, but you lack the audience depth I'd normally look for. By depth, I mean volume - so this is not a knock against you - you have your niche and appear to serve it very well! One major thing I convey to affiliates that I mentor is to pick a niche and move to dominate it - so I'm listing you despite your small audience size, because everything else but your depth screams yes to me.

    Thanks.
    Much appreciated, and don't worry, no knock perceived in anything you said. Mostly I agree with you. Heck, those are the reasons I picked this niche.

    That said, a couple things have surprised me since starting the business, and one is the size of the potential market. It's a lot bigger than I expected, especially as we move to add metal detectors and rockhounding gear. I think one of the main reasons it feels bigger than I assumed it would be is that very few towns have shops that carry the stuff. The customer base in any one town may be too small to support a local shop, so the customers either drive or order by mail (read as "perfect for online retail").

    Most of the activities we cover are also popular vacation activities, so while there may not be gold in your neighborhood stream, especially not enough to support a store selling equipment, there are still customers planning a trip to somewhere with a bit more.

    Anyway, thought you might appreciate a little of what I've noticed since starting.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I would strongly recommend that merchants do this on a case by case basis through a private offer. (Can that be done on SAS?) Most affiliates don't like second tiers (they want the whole commission) and don't actively recruit other affiliates.
    Michael, while I fully agree with you that some affiliates don't like second tiers and don't actively recruit, I completely disagree with the common misperception that second tiers take commissions away from 1st tier affiliates. I'm sure you know all this, but others reading may not.

    Having a small percentage available, above and beyond the normal commission rate, to reward affiliates that do recruit does not mean the merchant could support a higher commission if not for that pesky second tier. It's a cost of doing business like advertising, trade shows or anything else, and while merchants could probably offer higher commissions if they eliminated every other cost of doing business, it's a bit naive to assume they could and still remain in business.

    Like I said, I'm sure you know all this. You're one of the folks around here whose posts I usually nod my head to, but in this case, somebody needed to offer a counter point to the others nodding their heads. Second tiers aren't generally a bad thing and don't generally take commissions from hard working affiliates. I say "generally" because I've seen it go the other way as well, but for the most part a second tier offer is little different than advertising in Revenue or attending a Summit.

    Cheers!
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    I'd give donuts that option and a few others but not some affiliate directory whose only purpose was to recruite 2nd tier.

  19. #19
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eathan
    I completely disagree with the common misperception that second tiers take commissions away from 1st tier affiliates. I'm sure you know all this, but others reading may not.
    Perception is reality, though. If affiliates feel like they're getting lower commissions to cover the merchant's second tier, the damage is already done.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  20. #20
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Perception is reality, though. If affiliates feel like they're getting lower commissions to cover the merchant's second tier, the damage is already done.
    Very true, which is exactly why I like to post a debunking opinion now and then. It's a perception I feel could do with changing.

    Again, I don't disagree with you. You're 100% spot on about the perception, and merchants need to be careful how they tread the second tier waters. For my program, I'm up front about it. I may be shooting myself in the foot, but I guess I'd rather tilt at windmills and try to change minds than treat second tier commissions like a dirty little secret. Doing that would just perpetuate what I believe is a misperception.
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  21. #21
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eathan
    ...as we move to add metal detectors...
    I like the sound of that! Had the thought about metal detectors when looking at your site. Beaches near here are relatively packed with people using them. Think you might consider making a beach page... or is also a good idea for any affiliates out there. Spanish dubloons do wash up every once in a while... of course, tourist's lost jewelry ain't bad either. :-)

    Your link has been added to my page. Thanks.

  22. #22
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristin Collier
    I am not seeing anything about making a private offer 2nd tear ... but would love to see it.
    Me too. Even though I just started, your HappyMothers program has been good to me. I'll consider adding it without any 2nd tier K, but make an effort, then please let me know. Thanks.

  23. #23
    Kung Fu Master Eathan's Avatar
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    Awesome! Glad to be working with you.

    On the detectors, I was actually supposed to pick up my first shipment at a trade show this last weekend, but my supplier was out of stock when they loaded their trailer. I did get the headphones, treasure scoops, super magnets, digging tools, etc though, and have been adding them to the site as fast as I can edit the photos and write the content. Of course my camera battery chose now to run out of charge... Added the highbankers too, but need to sort out weights and shipping costs before I remove the "out of stock" message. Should have the feed updated by the end of the week.

    Jeez, I best get back to work!
    Eathan Mertz

    Black Cat Mining - Gold Prospecting & Rockhounding Equipment

  24. #24
    Affiliate Manager adambha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    I'd say make limited private offers to those who train affs or provide aff info.
    Yup, I'd gladly setup an exclusive 2nd tier for you Donuts.

    Y'know, I suppose even though this isn't (yet!) a feature at SAS, it'd be easy enough to track and post your commissions manually. I like the sound of that and would definitely do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    I like focused niches, but while I seek out narrow (focus) ones, I look for depth (of audience) as well.
    I think we fit the bill on this one. 'Handcrafted Nepalese jewelry' is about as niche-y as you can get, but silver gemstone jewelry is quite a broad market.

    Let me know if you're interested.

  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager PingoPrepaidCallingCards's Avatar
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    Any 3rd party 2 tier software recomendationos?

    Were paying out at our max commision on Linkshare already. But it would be nice to offer a 2nd tier as a thank you gift.

    Does anyone have a solution we can us since Linkshare doesn't have 2 tier program

    thanks in advance..
    Brian Hawkins AM @ [URL=http://www.pingo.com/affiliate.do]Pingo[/URL] Earn up to $35 CPA for a [URL=http://www.pingo.com/p/onedollar/onedollar.html]$1 trial offer[/URL]!
    [URL=http://www.twitter.com/TelecomAgents]@TelecomAgents[/URL] [URL=http://www.twitter.com/telephonecard]@TelephoneCard[/URL]

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