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  1. #1
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    edealinfo still cookie stuffing??
    I got an application via CJ today and sent a network compliance test. Put the affiliate on my permanent decline list! Has anything changed??

    http://www.benedelman.org/search/res...=FORID%3A9#542
    http://www.revenews.com/davidlewis/archives/000706.html
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=74791

    Haiko, perhaps you should start a Suspicious Activity! subforum??

  2. #2
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    We also got a network app from them at AvantLink in the last few days. thanks for the links chuck.

    Gary M

  3. #3
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Per CJ: This publisher has been approved by our Compliance Team.

  4. #4
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    Per CJ: This publisher has been approved by our Compliance Team.
    And that means?

  5. #5
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    And that means that whatever he is doing is OK by CJ standards. It is not however OK by my standards. Until I get the likes of a KellyB and a Ben E approving them coupled with verbiage in their privacy policy stating that they do not stuff, forward or fluff & fold, I will not allow them into my programs.

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager tmartini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    And that means that whatever he is doing is OK by CJ standards. It is not however OK by my standards. Until I get the likes of a KellyB and a Ben E approving them coupled with verbiage in their privacy policy stating that they do not stuff, forward or fluff & fold, I will not allow them into my programs.
    Hey Chuck,

    Good idea. I wouldn't rely on CJ's compliance department when it comes to this type of crap. Their lack of diligence when it comes to dealing with sites like eDealinfo is well known.

    -- Todd
    Todd Martini
    Digital Marketing Manager
    Jones Soda Co.
    Follow Me on Twitter

  7. #7
    Not that fat. ReallyBigGuy's Avatar
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    I just looked at their site and don't see iframes(looked at the source), but I'm not a super-investigator... but what other tactics are they maybe using now?

  8. #8
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    After I rejected eDealinfo.com in my CJ program I was contacted by a network rep. After several email exchanges I received a call from Rajiv who assures me that this was a mistake from the past. I asked him to summarize his comments which I am posting here:

    In reference to cookie stuffing it is a thing from the past (few years now). We were learning and growing at that time and were trying to follow few things that some of our competitors did. Once we realized that it was a wrong thing to do, we cleaned it up. Even our Privacy Policy (http://www.edealinfo.com/privacy.shtml ) clearly mentions that unless someone clicks on a link, they would not get automatically redirected to the third party websites. Yes, it was a mistake in the past but it is something that would never happen again.
    Is it possible for an affiliate to clear his name with prior practices?? Does that affiliate need to petition KellyB and/or Ben to get a clean reputation?? McAfee has given a green light (not sure if they check for cookie stuffing):

    In order for me to accept an affiliate like this I would have to feel that they were above board. And, that other affiliates wouldn't object to seeing my merchants on their sites.

  9. #9
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    i visited looking for the cookie stuffing and after only a few pages did not see anything stuffed down my throat. is it possible that they had a toolbar or something else that was the issue.

  10. #10
    Not that fat. ReallyBigGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hamrick
    ...

    McAfee has given a green light (not sure if they check for cookie stuffing): [/URL]
    I don't think they check for that... they basically look for auto-downloads, viruses and the like.

  11. #11
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    ReallyBigGuy,

    You are correct, SiteAdvisor doesn't check for that. I'm not sure that we'd want them to considering the history of how McAfee has handled both affiliate cookies and ads.

    Until I get the likes of a KellyB and a Ben E approving them coupled with verbiage in their privacy policy stating that they do not stuff, forward or fluff & fold, I will not allow them into my programs.
    For me, that type of thing would fall under private consulting to assess for a merchant if an affiliate is engaging in a particular behavior the merchant is concerned about. I can't speak for Ben of course, but I think it would be private consulting for him as well.
    Does that affiliate need to petition KellyB and/or Ben to get a clean reputation??
    They could petition me I suppose, but it would be a waste of their time. I don't sell any type of "clean bill of health" to affiliates, for obvious reasons. I don't do any type of certification, seal of approval, etc for affiliates, merchants, opms or networks. I've never done it and I don't plan to ever do it. It's just not my business model. I provide objective data on behaviors and practices for each individual person or company to use for how it is related to their own specific and unique business.

    If KellyB wasn't meaning me, than nevermind all of the above.

  12. #12
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Thank you Kelly. My decision is to pass on this affiliate even though he seems to have cleaned up his act.

  13. #13
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Good call Chuck!

    Let's not forget that they employed invisible iframes to deploy their faked / forced clicks to stuff those cookies. To brush this aside as "we didn't know any better at the time", knowing that the checks they cashed must have been substantial, is a mistake.

    The vast majority of cookie stuffers use adware to deliver their pages that stuff - I doubt seriously that their only offense is/was forced clicks. When you show up in Kellie's or Ben's public reports, you're usually a pretty prolific actor.

  14. #14
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Yep Donuts, when the reply doesn't match the act I get suspicious!!

  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager guinness618's Avatar
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    Hi Chuck!
    I had removed edealinfo.com earlier in 2008 for brand term bidding. They have now asked to be considered back in to my programs.
    May I ask how your relationship has been with them since this post?
    Dyan
    Dyan Carlson
    ["My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness."- The Dalai Lama

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
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    "In reference to cookie stuffing it is a thing from the past (few years now). We were learning and growing at that time and were trying to follow few things that some of our competitors did. Once we realized that it was a wrong thing to do, we cleaned it up."

    Really. Because first time they were removed it was a merchant in 2004:

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...ight=edealinfo

    Then a whole network removed them in 2006:

    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...ight=edealinfo

    Where was that realizing it was wrong and cleaning up between 2004-2006?

    And they were also TM bidding when they weren't supposed too?

    Apparently it was so bad Linkshare removed them and that's rare. Did Linkshare let them back also? edit, looks like they did. No surprise there.

  17. #17
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    How many chances should an unethical affiliate get? They've had multiple opportunities to play by the rules and chose to continue their unethical behavior. And as for not knowing that they were breaking the rules, come on, is anyone here really naive enough to fall for that? Besides it's their business to know the rules and to abide by them. If they didn't understand them, then ban them for stupidity.

    Once they've demonstrated a history of "bad behavior" it's time for permanent removal.

    -rematt
    Last edited by rematt; January 14th, 2009 at 12:18 PM.
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador purplebear's Avatar
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    "How many chances should an unethical affiliate get?"

    hmmm, well it probably depends on who they are I guess. Am sittin here eatin lunch and should be bitin my tongue or counting to 10 cos am sure somebody's gonna come here and tell me to quit my whining and blaming somebody else for my shortcomings. lol

    Has gotten to be a bit of a sore subject with me and am tryin very hard to follow the advice of another affiliate I very much respect.

    I am not stupid, naive and to the person who may pop in here am not whining. lol Granted...was to a degree before cos did think hard work, doin the right thing, etc. would get ya somewhere and the bad guys would be found out and naturally since they were doin bad things thought there would be bad consequences for that behavior. Yea..... I know... still believe in the Easter Bunny, too.

    Answer to the question is.....well they start out bein unethical and everybody just thinks they're the most dastardly affiliate ever and huffs and puffs bout em. They start out as really not bein so much as hardly a blip on the radar to people. They keep up with their unethical behavior and in time they go from hardly a blip to a reaaaaally big blip and now everybody loves em cept those poor affiliates who still don't like their unethical behavior that they're still doin just seems others don't always see it the same way anymore then those affiliates who work their butts off and do everything ethical are accused of whining.

    So....just depends on who ya are but have begun to learn that "How many chances should an unethical affiliate get?"

    Answer is just all depends on who ya are and guess how good ya are at talkin bs and if people believe ya or not.....and oh yes.......$$$$ that kinda factors in there, too. (doesn't matter always if their behavior is quite considered ethical by all anymore)

    So.....am takin the advice of that wise ole other affiliate tryin to keep my thoughts to myself (ummmm obviously not today, tho lol ) will keep on believin in the Easter Bunny and what they do is up to them and I'm just gonna try not to let it get to me anymore... Not gonna let their behavior get to me or make me change the way I do things.

    To that person who's tempted to tell me I'm whining.......better watch out if ya catch me in a bad mood. (Easter Bunny and I are pretty close and I'll talk to him if necessary about you, so don't tempt me)

    My own disclaimer or whatever. Am not in any way referring to any of the people in this thread.....am havin a knee jerk reaction to hearin them words "unethical affiliate" again and can't control myself. Your fault rematt. lol just teasin.

  19. #19
    OPM and Moderator Chuck Hamrick's Avatar
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    Dyan, just got back from the Summit and catching up. Haven't had any complaints that I can find in the last year but will dig deeper.

  20. #20
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinness618
    Hi Chuck!
    I had removed edealinfo.com earlier in 2008 for brand term bidding. They have now asked to be considered back in to my programs.
    May I ask how your relationship has been with them since this post?
    Dyan
    Dyan I'm not sure why you would even consider letting them back in your program. They have a history of cheating and you yourself removed them for a TOS violation. What more evidence do you need that they are unwilling to play by the rules? Allowing them back in to your program would be a real disservice to the honest affiliates that promote your products in an ethical manner.

    I understand that everyone deserves a second chance, however they've had multiple opportunities and have chosen to cheat every time. What do you think will change this time?

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  21. #21
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplebear
    Am sittin here eatin lunch and should be bitin my tongue or counting to 10 cos am sure somebody's gonna come here and tell me to quit my whining and blaming somebody else for my shortcomings. lol
    Perhaps, but you already know which two words to give them, and they ain't "Happy Birthday".

    I have serious concerns about someone that so readily dismisses unethical behavior. If they are so willing to overlook it in others, it's probably only a matter of time before they start rationalizing and excusing their own bad behavior.

    And BTW, I don't whine.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  22. #22
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    unethical behaviour
    Quote Originally Posted by rematt
    Dyan I'm not sure why you would even consider letting them back in your program. They have a history of cheating and you yourself removed them for a TOS violation. What more evidence do you need that they are unwilling to play by the rules? Allowing them back in to your program would be a real disservice to the honest affiliates that promote your products in an ethical manner.

    I understand that everyone deserves a second chance, however they've had multiple opportunities and have chosen to cheat every time. What do you think will change this time?

    -rematt
    I am new to affiliate programs, can you elaborate what should I be aware of? what is cheating in affiliate programs? I am using CJ for affiliate links, do they cheat?
    (if you like and have time I would be glad if you give an opinion about my new website (removed url), does it look credible? should I change something there?)

    Best regards,
    Igal Avraham
    Last edited by loxly; February 4th, 2009 at 03:03 PM. Reason: there is a separate area of the forum for site reviews, do not derail this thread please.

  23. #23
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    One of my merchant has a good ranking for their product. They usually have 20-30 orders daily without affiliate marketing. Just 3 days after launching the program, edealinfo took commission for 2 of my sales. They have placed my merchant on ecouponinfo.com. We do not run coupons at all. Still they ask to click here to see all coupons for this merchant. And when someone types companyname + coupon code, ecouponinfo comes on the first page of Google. I am going to remove them for PPC violation.

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