Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 113
  1. #1
    15 years and counting
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    6,121
    I'll be glad to hear what our "Trusted Third Party" is thinking about this Morpheus come back.
    Do they allow one affiliate to steal from others?
    Do they recommend Morpheus as a preferred affiliate to their merchants?
    It seems they were back at JC Whitney without the full knowledge of Rick.
    Is CJ going to do someting?
    It's easy for them to freeze Morpheus earning and to investigate the case.
    "Trusted" for me means something, if they want to be trusted they need to win that trust,
    What do you all think CJ should do about what's happening?

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  2. #2
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    quote:
    It's easy for them to freeze Morpheus earning and to investigate the case.

    It would be easier for them to just deactivate permanently the thieving, lying, two faced scumbags. How about it Todd? have you guys got the ethics and guts to do this? [edited to add] or does money really count above all?

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  3. #3
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,694
    If the spin is they are to be the poster child for parasitware gone good, I guess that means even though they blew the second chance, made fools out of affiliates, merchants, and networks alike, they'll get a third one.

    My question to Todd is this - given their recent behavior, if Morpheus is "the poster child for parasiteware gone good", doesn't tell you it's time to admit that parasitware by it's very nature can't "go good"? If not, maybe you should consider having this one "put away" and finding another poster child - one that will set the right example.

    Show us you really mean it.

    {

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  4. #4
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    1,336
    In the same way you don't put a pedophile in charge of a nursery, you don't put a bunch of lying kleptomaniac imbeciles anywhere near your business or good name - unless you are a lying kleptomaniac imbecile yourself.

    It is not a matter of choice to be a pedophile or a kleptomaniac, it is a socially dysfunctional mental illness that may or may not have a genetic basis. Its not like the CEO of Morpheus told his Careers Counsellor 'when I grow up I want to be a theiving kleptomaniac imbecile'. He might have told his shrink this, but it isn't something he had an *ambition* to be - it was something innate he already was.

    Short of gene therapy this is not going to change.

    No one wakes up in a morning and thinks I Want To Be a Scumbag/Pedophile/Complete Tosser Today yet, statistically speaking, a certain proportion of the population faces each day as one of the above nevertheless. Personal choice does not enter into it because they do not have the intellectual capacity to exercise any.

    Had they the mental wherewithal to control these antisocial impulses, as I'm sure many latent cases do, they would not have offended in the first place and we wouldn't have had this conversation once - let alone twice!

    If you are wanting a permanent, industry wide solution to this problem, its not their access to the networks that needs cutting off - its their access to the gene pool. This is best achieved with a big pair of bolt cutters.

    I'll post an affiliate link to some if you like, and a helpful diagram should you need one.


    I

    [This message was edited by Icicle on September 21, 2002 at 02:56 PM.]

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,650
    CJ condones theft and collaborates with thieves. CJ has ample ammunition in its own terms of service to put a quick stop to parasitic link placement and resulting diversion of commissions, but does CJ have the integrity to stand by its own terms? Not so far as I can tell ...

    Here's an excerpt from CJ's terms of service that publishers must agree to before they can join. This is from Section 2.2 Use of Links to Advertisers (emphasis mine).

    "You shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith, including, but not limited to, using any device, program, robot, Iframes, hidden frames, JavaScript popup windows, redirects or clicking on Links that You place to the Advertiser. You shall not establish or cause to be established any promotion that provides any rewards, points or compensation for Transactions, or that allows third parties ("Sub-Publishers") to place an Advertiser's Links on its Web site or in its e-mails, unless You receive the Advertiser's prior written permission, upon notification to and verification by CJ."

    Despite these words, CJ continues to allow several varieties of digital parasites to intercept commissions that someone else earned. CJ is a knowing, active participant in countless acts of betrayal. (As are other networks ...)

    Trusted third party? No comment ...

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    57
    One problem with parasite ware is that they are not easily avoidable. Parasite ware companies are publishers. Companies like CJ & Linkshare that allow publishers instant access to advertiser links are going to be prime targets. Lets say you are Morpheius and you need links. You can sign up with CJ and Linkshare and hours later have links to start producing commissions. Days or weeks later the affiliate network will catch on due to complaints or noticing that a new publisher just generated 10 million impressions the day it joined. That's probably the current situation. For each Kazaa that's removed a new Morpheius pops up. So do these affiliate networks condone parasite ware? No. Is it allowed? Technically yes.

    Lastly. Avoid getting over emotional in these posts. Words like anitoscial, thieves, scumbags, and and imbecil are not needed. They may be appropirate althought they also make your arguments less effective. I want to see a professional discussion here but not with a bunch of kids.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    2,341
    Mac a great point as to why no merchants should auto accept publishers (especially the antisocial thieving scumbags) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img].


    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Abigail's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Fraser Valley, BC Canada
    Posts
    1,100
    I am not computer literate enough to understand how blocking codes work, but I do recall installing one onto all of my webpages when the threat of "Smart Tags" seemed imminent - is there nothing that will block the Morpheus, nothing that could be installed onto our webpages, nothing that can be made to work?

    Abigail

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,694
    Abigail - try this:

    http://and.doxdesk.com/parasite/

    There is a javascript there that you can insert in your pages called parasite.js that detects many known parasites.

    {

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,650
    Mac, what word would would you propose that we use instead of "thief"?

    I agree that parasite affiliates can slip in under the radar, but once they are exposed CJ does NOT enforce its own terms of service about how links are to be promoted.

    Therefore, by its inaction, CJ is condoning theft.

    If it seems undiplomatic to call it that, too bad.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    709
    Eagle Fire.

    With that script is there away to enter in a detect page so you can make them go into another page rather then just a warning being putup?

    ------------------------------------------------------------Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open. Thomas Dewar

  12. #12
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,694
    Yes, instead of linking directly to the file on their website, you can download the script and customize the message.

    "Laziness, Impatience, Hubris. Pick any three" ~ YAPC 19100

  13. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    1,336
    Mac,

    I'd be interested in your view of this antisocial, thieving scumbag..

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...89&m=392606399

    and what he had to say.


    I

  14. #14
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    416
    Mac,

    We don't negotiate with terrorists, you kid.

    - BluesX

    ---------------
    Affiliate Marketing is built upon honesty. Tracking is not affected.

  15. #15
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,468
    What is Cj's postion on Morpheus?


    Well, one of 'ems bending over, but I can't figure out which one it is.

    If you try to please everybody, someone won't like it -Rumsfeld

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    Mac,

    Firstly, Hi and Welcome to ABW!

    quote:
    One problem with parasite ware is that they are not easily avoidable.


    Applesauce! We have a list of them (updated today) on Parasiteware.com What the Ad networks need to do is inform merchants what these affiliates are doing and allow the merchants to make the business decision of dealing wth them (and the repercussions therof, or dropping them ... it is VERY EASY!

    quote:
    That's probably the current situation. For each Kazaa that's removed a new Morpheius pops up. So do these affiliate networks condone parasite ware? No.


    Umm, If the Adnetworks supported a zero tolerance to parasiteware, then they would not condone ParasiteWare!

    quote:
    Lastly. Avoid getting over emotional in these posts.


    Mac, If I just broke into your house, and robbed you, because the adnetworks gave me the key to your house AGAIN, wouldn't you be emotional? Please, lets be realistic here ... I can extrapolate the numbers of how this affected the community by this latest exercise in theivery of Morpheus ... and if part of it was yours ... you'd be cursing!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    1,447
    not me Haiko. I would break out the 44 Magnum. if they come into my home, they sure as hell aint walking out! I feel the frustration...

    Big Chuck

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    57
    I do not have a solution but I do know that dealing with the problem is easier said then done. Now back to the original question, does CJ allow one affiliate to steal from others? I think that is a rhetorical question. Kazaa was removed from CJ about a year ago. Can CJ or any ad network effectively combat parasite ware? My answer is still no.

    Icicle, I read that post and all the points made are valid. If a prasite ware company can generate 90 million customers then they will always be part of the internet.

    Also, anyone here going to CJU? I'm going and would love to talk to other people about the morpheus situation.

  19. #19
    Full Member
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    354
    CJ's silence is deafing

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    1,447
    I viewed the merchant list at parasiteware.com; it is appalling. Some merchants listed there are advertisers that I have always held a high opinion of, until now. Some of them have been my top performers in the past, but recently my earning with them have slowed down... hmmmmmm... PARASITE WARE! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

    Big Chuck

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,650
    quote:
    If a prasite ware company can generate 90 million customers then they will always be part of the internet.
    Mac, now I'll tell YOU to be careful of your rhetoric.

    For starters, being able to (maybe) get a message in front of 90 million (claimed) viewers is nowhere near the same as generating that number of customers.

    Second, parasites are not reaching anywhere near that number of NEW prospects, they're hijacking traffic that other affiliates -- and the merchants themselves -- have developed.

    Third, if a merchant considers last-minute link interception to be an acceptable method of doing business, they are lying if they tell other affiliates that they will get paid commissions on the business they generate. Why would a merchant who spends years working to build a credible brand and a reputation for integrity risk throwing it all away like that?

    Here's an example of what one merchant promises on its recruitment page (emphasis mine): "You can earn up to $10 for every new paying eBay.com Store subscriber you generate." If that merchant allowed any -- ANY -- form of parasitic link placement, then that statement would be a lie to every other affiliate, because they would not in fact be paid as promised for each new subscriber they generated. Please note that I picked that example because the language is common around CJ, not because I know one way or the other what Ebay does with parasites.

    If parasites "will always be part of the internet" they are only surviving because too many merchants and networks 1) have no ethical backbone and 2) can't do math.

    The mechanisms being used here are rather specialized for a lot of folks to understand, but the bottom line is that in an unknown number of cases the wrong entity is receiving the commissions for business generated by someone else. And there's still a lot of merchants out there who turn turn a blind eye ...

    Yeesh, if a company was going to sell its soul to the devil you'd think they'd want more for it than money they would have gotten anyhow??

    [edited to fix a grammatical error]

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    57
    I agree that parasite ware is wrong. What I want to know is how can parasite ware be prevented? I want to see a solution, some idea on what CJ could code into its tracking system that would put an end to parasite ware for good.

  23. #23
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    1,336
    >Icicle, I read that post and all the points made are valid. If a prasite ware company can generate 90 million customers then they will always be part of the internet.


    Mac, muggers and rapists are always part of society. And guess what? When one of them picks on me they end up plying their trade down the local casualty department for the night.

    They generate sod all. There is a big difference between generating and stealing. Except if you are a sociopath with a high pain threshold.

    These people need psychological help. I expect that the root cause of all this thievery is the inadequte size of their, how can I put this for delicate American eyes..?

    You know. Their 'manly' bits.

    A general sense that somehow somewhere, they do not have 'enough' of what it takes. Then they project this sense of inadequacy outwards into the world and onto other people's wallets and websites and try to increase the size of their erm, 'holdings' by illicit means.

    Course this will not actually help the real problem because it remains unaddressed. Unless they spend the ill gotten on one of those helpful 'increase the size of your you know what' spams.


    Anyway Mac. Its time to take some personal responsibilty here. You do have some, don't you? No-one can solve the problems of the world, but we can all begin to deal with those worldly problems in front of us from day to day. Thats how you do it - one bit at a time. So ask yourself 'what kind of world do I wish to live in'? Then start building it.

    If you look at the state of things and believe 'theres nothing I can do' then nothing is done. If you are afraid of going against the grain once in a while you might as well put a gun to your head and shoot yourself for all the use you are. Because thats what living is. Doing the best you can, every day and making a difference.

    The tide always turns anyway. Wanna be on the crest of the wave, Or wanna be under it?



    I

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,650
    quote:
    I agree that parasite ware is wrong. What I want to know is how can parasite ware be prevented? I want to see a solution, some idea on what CJ could code into its tracking system that would put an end to parasite ware for good.
    Is there a way to eliminate ticks? I don't think so, but that doesn't stop you from pulling ticks off your dog when you find them!

    Parasites feed on stolen commissions; well, cut off their nourishment! The problem would be hugely reduced if merchants and networks simply had more gumption about pulling the ticks off the dog -- refusing to do business with entities who use parasitic methods of link placement.

    I'm not enough of a techie to make tracking suggestions, but clever scum will always find workarounds so ultimately the solution will always be on the ethical end. Just as honorable people do not buy stolen merchandise from thieves, honorable businesses will not reward parasites for stealing customers.

    I continue to wonder: why are so many merchants willing to toss their reputation for integrity out the window?

  25. #25
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    36
    mac wrote:

    quote:

    I agree that parasite ware is wrong. What I want to know is how can parasite ware be prevented? I want to see a solution, some idea on what CJ could code into its tracking system that would put an end to parasite ware for good.




    Mac,

    Finding one perfect technological solution to this problem is not only a tad overly optimistic, but also seems to be a great many steps removed from where CJ is presently. As the subject of this thread indicates, CJ apparently has not yet even spelled out a clear position on parasiteware.

    Just the other day Amazon FINALLY cancelled Morpheus's account through their affiliate program. They posted this letter to their own public forums:

    quote:

    General¬*-¬*¬*Why is it Okay for Wurldmedia To Steal?

    From:¬* Tim¬* Sep-21 9:33 pm¬*
    To:¬* ALL ¬*(11 of 33)¬*¬* 1907.11 in reply to 1907.3¬*

    Hi,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention.¬* We have closed Morpheus's Associate Account.

    If you know of any other affiliate who is overriding other Associate IDs, please write to assocmerch@amazon.com.

    Cheers,

    Tim from Amazon.com




    If CJ simply came out with a letter like this and cancelled all the known parasiteware accounts, it would be a wonderful place to start.

    It seems sadly ironic is that CJ rose to its current level of prominence by being actual leaders and creating by far the most publisher-friendly network (through innovating such features as features as amagamated payments), but now apparently won't make even the smallest gestures to help prevent something so serious as the theft of publishers' commissions.

    - Rex

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. what determines my ad position?
    By scott4444 in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: October 31st, 2007, 06:03 AM
  2. Replies: 32
    Last Post: September 23rd, 2002, 10:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •