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  1. #1
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    This is an eye opener!
    Sensible Immigration Laws:

    There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special Ballots for elections, all government business will be conducted in our Language.

    Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.

    Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

    Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no Food Stamps, no health care or other government assistance programs.

    Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

    If foreigners do come and want to buy land, that will be okay, BUT options will be restricted. They are not allowed waterfront property. That is Reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

    Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign flag, no Political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. If they Do, they will be sent home.

    If they come to this country illegally, they will be hunted down and sent Straight to jail.

    Harsh, you say?

    The above statements are the immigration laws of MEXICO.
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    There is a lot of history behind those rules, I think it best to take everything in context.

    That said:

    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
    Source: Statue of Liberty
    Continued Success,

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  3. #3
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    There is a lot of history behind those rules, I think it best to take everything in context.

    That said:

    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

    Source: Statue of Liberty
    A valiant sentiment, although it is meant for those who want to become citizens, not milk the system without contributing to and enriching the American way.

    I'm in Los Angeles ... too close to getting bombarded with "the issue" to let the love shine through, although I try ... meanwhile, if Mexico has such immigration laws, I think we should take a long hard look at our own.

    Now nobody go turn this into a political debate! LOL
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  4. #4
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    it would be to easy to turn this into a debate, but since my wife first visited the US there has been a huge change in the "give my our tired"

    the post 911 US is nothing like that...i simply say the Chinese built a huge wall to keep the barbarians out, but today the US has a huge wall of paper to keep almost everyone out.

    As is when her status as resident alien expires because the local embassy lost her paper work, she will not be able to visit the states until we buy her a plane ticket...then ask for a visa (hoping to get one) which would be good for 30 days . Pre 911 rubber stamp 90 day visitation no questions.

    is there a debate? Of course this is if your trying to play by the rules and the last i checked the people who would try to hurt the US don't play by the rules, so who do the new rules help?

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    A valiant sentiment, although it is meant for those who want to become citizens, not milk the system without contributing to and enriching the American way.
    Who says they don't want to become citizens? You think they want to just come over and sit on their rears? Life is beyond oppressive and opportunity is negligible the only choice they have is to come across the border. It's a question of salvation for some and opportunities for enrichment for others.

    Yes I'm not in LA but I am in NY and we have our share of 'Mexicans' here also (me included (Born there)) but I'm sure you and most can see that illegal Mexican actually are now an integral part of our economy and allow for many 'savings' and economies of scale.

    America pre 911 was too lenient, and post 911 is very restrictive, but the opportunities offered by the statue stand true and always should, it's the basis of America - the home of the free.

    There is no debate, just a friendly discussion, with different views and input
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  6. #6
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.

    America pre 911 was too lenient, and post 911 is very restrictive, but the opportunities offered by the statue stand true and <b>always should</B>, it's the basis of America -<B> the home of the free?</B>.
    should and are....are they the same NOW?

    Patriot Act....free?...don't get me started :-)

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    No, they are not enacted as before but that is because the Bush regime is beyond ridiculous. Hopefully we can return to what America was meant to be sooner than later.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  8. #8
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    This thread has danced along the fine line of what is too political for this forum. I will add my two cents and hope I have not fallen to my death.:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    No, they are not enacted as before but that is because the Bush regime is beyond ridiculous. Hopefully we can return to what America was meant to be sooner than later.
    November, 2008 will see the most important election in the brief history of the free, democratic world.

    Another Republican regime will mark the end of democratic freedoms as we knew them from 1787 to Sept. 11, 2001, with the liklihood of more Scalias, Thomasas and Alitos deciding what is "constitutional".



    .... and my 2010 vacation will be at the Haliburon Grand Canyon and Power Plant.
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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador JudiMoore's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned, every bit of civilization in all of history was made by people "migrating" in an effort to eat and live. We have some huge issues to work out and the states that are nearest the borders of our country bear a huge brunt of the problem.

    We have issues of safety and economy that scare us all, but we can not afford to choose a human being or group of human beings to bear the brunt of our fear and be punished for it. Instead, we have to work through the issues while trying to recognize the political divisions that create knee jerk reactions to every plan, every statement, every effort to repair or even discuss.

    Most of the physical area of these United States was explored and then settled and civilized by men, women and children who left one life behind and traveled to find opportunity and a better future for their families. For sure, some traveled to find fortune at the expense of others, but for the most part, our early settlers were trying to find somewhere they could be free, work and be rewarded for that work and feed their children.

    No matter what we end up doing about the illegals, we have to remember their humanity and the common threads of the pioneer we share with them. Maybe instead of trying to eliminate the people, we should eliminate the problems in the system that encourages the abuse.

  10. #10
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Very weil said, Judi,
    Quote Originally Posted by jmoore61103
    Most of the physical area of these United States was explored and then settled and civilized by men, women and children who left one life behind and traveled to find opportunity and a better future for their families. For sure, some traveled to find fortune at the expense of others, but for the most part, our early settlers were trying to find somewhere they could be free, work and be rewarded for that work and feed their children.
    At the time of the early European settlers to the New World, up through final chapters of Manifest Destiny, the indigenous population was considered to be composed of ignorant savages, and the settlers had little regard for the civilizations they decimated. 19th and early 20th Century immigration waves from the British Isles, Central and Eastern Europe, etc. were comprised of peoples who were determined to become a part of the new society they found, to melt into the American "Pot". Today, a large part of the antagonism recent immigrants, both legal and illegal, suffer is due in part to the perception that they are here not to become part of our society (or even to take over society and re-make it in their image), but to remain loyal to their homeland and send benefits (earnings) back to the old country.

    My grandparents - all four of them - emigrated from Eastern Eurpope in the early 20th century for religious and economic reasons with basically the shirts on their backs. They had no love for the "old counry" from whence they came, and were Americans and nothing else from their first days on US soil.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoore61103
    No matter what we end up doing about the illegals, we have to remember their humanity and the common threads of the pioneer we share with them. Maybe instead of trying to eliminate the people, we should eliminate the problems in the system that encourages the abuse.
    A major undertaking that requires efforts on an international level. That type of cooperation between countries is hard to envision.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  11. #11
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    also (me included (Born there))
    Me included -- conceived there
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  12. #12
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Hopefully we can return to what America was meant to be sooner than later.
    And hopefully maintain our AMERICAN culture and lifestyle in the process. America is great because of our tolerance and acceptance but I feel America can be too lenient with allowing our basic constitution to be trod on by others who demand we accept THEIR cultures, lifestyles and beliefs. I was raised in Italy and coming back to the USA was a choice I made once i became an adult because I love what America represented.

    And the Patriot Act is insane. I have 2 very close friends who are adversely affected by it, both with American wives and children whom they cannot come visit. Yep, I think we're out of control and giving away control to outside groups and cultures might not be in our best interests. Being from Los Angeles and having Mexican relatives, I don't find Mexicans to be our biggest threat but hell, THEIR immigration laws won't let US into their country without a certain level of adaptation to their way of life. Who're the idiots?!
    Peace,

    Rexanne

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  13. #13
    The "other" left wing davidh's Avatar
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    Blame the government, not the people.

    What if the Native Americans had the resources to keep the Europeans out of here?

    Borders are for territorial creatures, like dogs and lions.
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  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidh
    Borders are for territorial creatures, like dogs and lions.
    I'm not going to comment on the immigration issues mentioned so far, but I'd like to comment on the statement above. People most certainly are territorial creatures. Native American tribes (and tribes all over the world) have fought against each other over territory and the resources that go with it, just as they fought with Europeans over the same. If that isn't territorial, I don't know what is.

    If people weren't territorial creatures, there would be no need for fences or locks. It's instinct, just as with animals to defend one's home and property. I like my neighbors and their kids, but I prefer they not cross the border (property line) into my backyard without my permission for a myriad of reasons, least of which is liability should they hurt themselves on the rock wall or something back there. Borders come in all shapes and sizes and they aren't all bad.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
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  15. #15
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Christopher Columbus: Italian navigator who discovered the New World in the service of Spain while looking for a route to China (1451-1506) Source: WordWeb
    So according to the history books:

    Did we were discovered, colonized, invaded, occupied, inhabited, populated, or what?

    Now, I have some questions!

    We all know by now that in the space-race-age, we have the American, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, and many other humans from earth, looking for life on another planets.

    So the day that the international-space-station, the hubble-space-telescope, or any other human being finally confirm that we're not alone in the universe, and that there are indeed, other non terrestrial civilization on other planets, then what would happen after that?

    When the children's of the children's of our children's, or someone elses relatives (for that matter) visit that other planet for the first time in our (so far known) human history, are they going to say that they discoverd a new world with living species on it, are they going to repeat our past history there, are they going to take over that newfound place?

    Btw, I know that in our lifetime, we might not be alive to go there ourselves, but when someone else can finally have, and be able to show the absolute truth that we're not alone in this universe, then how can our future relatives travel there one day?

    Other than travel money, space related equipment expenses, and vaccination, would they need a visa too?

    Btw, btw, if today 2007, you were a billionaire and wanted to retire on the moon because it's your life and your money. Who do you need to ask permission from? From the East, or from the West?

    Btw, btw, btw....... as off today. Who really owns the Moon?

    ---------

    No matter what!

    One hundred years ago,
    no one of us were alive ,
    and.......
    one hundred years from now,
    no one of us would be alive.
    ......



    So, c'est la vie!


  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador JudiMoore's Avatar
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    Wouldn't that be funny? We travel light years through space in some frozen form that can be brought to life in time for landing, and when we exit the ship we're met by Federal Marshalls or their version of the Coast Guard. Who knew? We'll be turned away as vagabonds. Maybe we'll be allowed to enter the planet but be discouraged when we spot the Help Wanted signs that say "No Irish Need Apply". No, wait, that was here.

  17. #17
    Internet Cowboy
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    If I remember my history classes correctly, there for a while (a few hundred years) it seemed like everyone in the world was trying to invade Mexico. They were after spices, gold and many other valuables.
    I think it was during Spanish rule that the fort just off the coast of Key West was made to keep watch on the opening to the Gulf of Mexico in an effort to repel a long list of invaders.
    I am sure those laws are at least partially a result of those times.

    If we are to talk about pure American Culture, that would be those who rode horses and hunted buffalo. Our culture as we know it today is a melding of the many cultures of people who have settled here in the past 200 years.

    All that said, we have a problem with illegal immigration. The Patriot Act has really done nothing but slow everything down and clog up the channels of those who are in the process of immigrating legally...and allow the government the capability to see what books you have bought by examining your credit card records...and allow the government to tap your phone lines without a warrant...and allow the government to come into your home and wisk you away to jail and not tell anyone they did it because they see you as an 'enemy combatant'. They even invented a term so they could bypass the constitution.

    I could go on for pages and pages, but I will stop here. I see your point Rexanne.

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  18. #18
    Classic Rocker Mack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexanne
    And hopefully maintain our AMERICAN culture and lifestyle in the process. America is great because of our tolerance and acceptance but I feel America can be too lenient with allowing our basic constitution to be trod on by others who demand we accept THEIR cultures, lifestyles and beliefs. I was raised in Italy and coming back to the USA was a choice I made once i became an adult because I love what America represented.
    Reminds me of this, been floating around the Internet for a while:

    IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT.

    I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or his culture.

    Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

    I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants.

    However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

    As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

    We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language! "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right-wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, a fact which is abundantly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

    If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.

    Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you're done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedom: THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

    We welcome everyone to our country with open hands who wish to live the American life, however if you prefer the way things are where you used to live. . . then you should live there

  19. #19
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
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    Mack,

    I thought the pursuit of happiness was in there some where to, your quote is a bit narrow minded.

    the sad truth is that our founding fathers were willing to put their lives on the line for freedom, but in the age of "shock and awe" & 911, the mentality seems to be "dumb and dumber"

    Rexann...your seeing this first hand with rubber bullets flying around the city ...What was that all about?


    MR Sal your on target ;-) was North America lost when the natives lived here for thousands of years in harmony with nature?

    forget narrow minded views and politics how can we put the borders behind us to save the planet before it's to late for all of us?

  20. #20
    Full Member ske9963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meadowmufn
    If that isn't territorial, I don't know what is.

    If people weren't territorial creatures, there would be no need for fences or locks.
    It's more than the territorial advancement.

    As UncleScooter pointed out, it's about the resources that one can harest from the land. Did you think the British Empire sailed 1/2 across the globe to China, Singapore just for territory?

    They were looking for spices, rubber, tin and riches and in order to do that, they had to protect the trading routes from the Dutch, etc

    That applied to the first settlers that landed in the East coast and setup Jamestown.

    There were other ideology also besides extracting resources. Later, there were religious missionaries that came following that.

    At present, there are territories that are so harsh that nobody is fighting over it while on the opposite end of the spectrum like Iraq, the is always the debate on whether the Sunni or Shia's will control the oil wells, etc.

    It's all about the economics
    Ma, where the beer? :escape:

  21. #21
    Life is Supposed to be Fun! Rexanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse

    Rexann...your seeing this first hand with rubber bullets flying around the city ...What was that all about?
    There was an illegal alien demonstration for amnesty here last week. The police evidently went over the top, lost their cool and went on the offense without good enough reason. There's been a lot of apologizing from the mayor and chief of police. Can't tell you more ... I try not to listen to the news. It's too depressing.
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  22. #22
    Classic Rocker Mack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbshouse
    Mack,
    I thought the pursuit of happiness was in there some where to, your quote is a bit narrow minded.
    I just said the comment reminded me of the quote. I do agree with part of it. It isn't right when people come into the country and rewrite our constitution.

    Actually I'm one of those people who doesn’t believe in borders. I look forward to the day when mankind becomes enlightened enough to understand that we are all citizens of one planet. Everyone should be afforded the same opportunities regardless of geographic origin. We should be working towards the betterment of the entire planets population as a whole. Hopefully one day….. Probably not in my lifetime.

    It's only been in the last century that everyone can easily travel the globe. As technology advances it will become even easier. Eventually we will breed out all of the characteristics that make us look different. It may take 10,000 years of evolution but it will happen, if we survive that long.

    While we're at it, we might want to pay attention to what we are doing to our home. It's the only one we have.

  23. #23
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    The story about the May 1 events in Los Angeles is the following:

    There was a well-announced pre-planned and legal demonstration set for May 1 by groups supporting amnesty and other immigration reforms.

    Despite their knowledge of this, the LA Chief of Police chose to be at a political fundraiser (for another local politician) that day, and the Mayor was out of the country.

    It appears that a group of agitators threw rocks and bottles at police, and the police reaction was to beat with batons and shoot rubber bullets at everyone in their path as they marched through the park area.

    Initial police reports were the "agitators" were in the hundreds, but it was later admitted by the Chief of Police that out of the 1000s of demonstrators, only about 30 were engaged in ANY illegal or dangerous activity.

    Today, on a live TV broadcast, when asked, the Mayor stated that there were few, if any, illegal immigrants among the demonstrators, who were virtually all legal residents or citizens.

    The reason why there has been so much notoriety, is that when the police engaged in this march through the demonstrators, they attacked and beat not just the demonstrators, but many members of the working press, and virtually the entire event is on film.

    It is also notorious, because it was so similar (except for attacks on so many newspersons while being filmed) to police actions just a couple of years ago, which cost LA taxpayers millions of dollars in damages paid out to the injured citizens.
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  24. #24
    Full Member ske9963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack
    Actually I'm one of those people who doesn’t believe in borders. I look forward to the day when mankind becomes enlightened enough to understand that we are all citizens of one planet. Everyone should be afforded the same opportunities regardless of geographic origin. We should be working towards the betterment of the entire planets population as a whole. Hopefully one day….. Probably not in my lifetime.
    Very humble idea which is great.

    In order to have that, there should also be one religion (or no religion), one central govt., one belief system.
    1) one religion - wars have been fought and is current being mapped out, especially the middle east to africa. So
    2) one central govt - if you do not have different govts, one will not be fighting each other for whatever reason (N.Korea or Iran). The closest we have to that is the U.N. which I think is good but highly bureacratic and inefficient.
    3) one belief sys. - everybody need to be working towards the idealogy and goals (same education sys globally, reward system, etc). Different goals = trouble, if one is not able to come to a middle point.

    That being said, that looks pretty familiar with a communistic society structure. I know that during the Kennedy era, the mention of "Communism" will send a chill down a person's spine. In theory and scientific books, a total communist society works but in practise, that is not the case with the U.S.S.R as a good example.

    Here is the food for throught for the day:
    Did you know that the nation's largest trading partner is communist country? A very high majority of goods stocked by our largest retailers is from communist country?

    "The United States imports more goods from China than it exports to a tune of $202 billion dollars each year. "
    Ma, where the beer? :escape:

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ske9963
    Very humble idea which is great.

    In order to have that, there should also be one religion (or no religion), one central govt., one belief system.
    1) one religion - wars have been fought and is current being mapped out, especially the middle east to africa. So
    2) one central govt - if you do not have different govts, one will not be fighting each other for whatever reason (N.Korea or Iran). The closest we have to that is the U.N. which I think is good but highly bureacratic and inefficient.
    3) one belief sys. - everybody need to be working towards the idealogy and goals (same education sys globally, reward system, etc). Different goals = trouble, if one is not able to come to a middle point.

    That being said, that looks pretty familiar with a communistic society structure. I know that during the Kennedy era, the mention of "Communism" will send a chill down a person's spine. In theory and scientific books, a total communist society works but in practise, that is not the case with the U.S.S.R as a good example.

    Here is the food for throught for the day:
    Did you know that the nation's largest trading partner is communist country? A very high majority of goods stocked by our largest retailers is from communist country?

    "The United States imports more goods from China than it exports to a tune of $202 billion dollars each year. "
    It probably would be more peaceful if everyone on the planet agreed on everything and was exactly the same in just about every respect, but I imagine it would also make it an absolutely boring place that no one else in the universe would want to visit. LOL. Individuality and diversity are what makes life a little more interesting.
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
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    Last Post: October 7th, 2003, 12:19 PM
  2. Keep an eye on my stats please
    By Wayder in forum Virtual Family and Off-Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2002, 10:38 PM

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