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  1. #1
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    Seriously considering advertise through incentaclick
    Hi fellas, I am considering advertise our debt management firm through incentaclick, I want to get some feedback especially from a advertisers perspective if possible, any affiliates are welcome to comment as well. I've heard good things about them and heard that they are well experienced with running financial products.

    But what's bothering me is I found out through their sales that their 7 days ROI doesn't really apply to our campaign, except they only guarantee the quality of the leads but not my ROI, which I 've been asked to setup a $5k pre-paid account, but then there is also no replacement for bogus leads. I'm just wondering if this is normal for the most new merchants. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Adam Ward; May 23rd, 2007 at 09:30 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    CPA networks love new merchants/advertisers who aren't aware of the quality of leads generated by the biggest affiliates on CPA networks. Affiliates on CPA networks can often be classified in these groups:

    1) Incentivized sites. These are the sites that offer "free" gift cards, iPods, laptops, etc. For the customer to qualify for their "free" item, they'll have to complete sometimes dozens of offers. The leads generated will extremely low quality, as the customers usually have no interest in your product. Expect cancellations, inquiries about their "free" product, etc.

    2) Spammers. Most CPA networks will require their "email marketers" to follow the CAN-SPAM law, but the law doesn't prevent unsolicited commercial email. It basically just requires opt-out, a physical address, and no fake headers. You'll get tens of thousands of spam complaints and millions of potential customers will consider you a spammer.

    3) Spyware. CPA networks have a horrible record of policing their affiliates. Some will use spyware to intercept traffic that you likely would have received anyway.

    4) Outright Fraud. Some CPA networks will catch the most obvious fraudulent affiliates, but many will slip through. Most of these affiliates will be based in third world countries and some of the more sophisticated ones will have large networks of people filling out fraudulent applications.

    5) Other CPA Networks. Now things get even more complicated. There are hundreds of other CPA Networks, and many of them will apply to be affiliates and will promote your offer through the affiliates on their own networks. This will further confuse things, and allow the incentivized affiliates, spammers, spyware affiliates, and fraudulent affiliates to hop from network to network when/if they get caught on one.

    6) Legitimate Affiliates. I'm sure there are some legitimate affiliates, too, but you probably won't even notice the small trickle of leads that come from them.

    You can request "no incentives", "no email", and "no software" when you sign up, but the CPA networks probably aren't going to be very interested in talking with you, and who knows how many of the first 4 types of affiliates will slip in anyway and how your program is promoted on sub-affiliate networks (#5).
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

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  4. #3
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Coley, that is one helluva post - outstanding! I demand it be stickied here at ABW somehow where merchants with similar questions can easily find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsgcorp615
    I've heard good things about them and heard that they are well experienced with running financial products.
    Wow, really? Who you been hanging out with?

  5. #4
    ABW Ambassador
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    >>outstanding! I demand it be stickied here at ABW

    DONE

  6. #5
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    Thank you
    Thank you for your post, base on your comment seems like the overall affiliate industry is almost too risky to get into. I am sure there are some honest network out there who have had good experiences with their few selected publishers.

    Well in order to prevent this from happening, would you suggest setup an pre-paid acct and let Incentaclick to hand select their publishers for me base on our products and campaign and let them run it 100% versus having us login in and accept individual affiliate?

    Also what do you think about incentaclick versus clickbooth which both require $5k pre-paid account and will run it for us. I am also considering shareasale and have no problem paying the network fees, but it seems like I have to login and manually accept individual affiliate but I prefer to have the network run it for us so we don't have to worry about it.

    I am still new to this, so please bare with me, thank you.

  7. #6
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    >>>it seems like I have to login and manually accept individual affiliate...

    At SAS you can auto approve or auto approve by country.
    Someone still needs to take a GOOD LOOK at who was added.

  8. #7
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsgcorp615
    Thank you for your post, base on your comment seems like the overall affiliate industry is almost too risky to get into. I am sure there are some honest network out there who have had good experiences with their few selected publishers.
    The overall affiliate industry? No. The "lead" side of the industry? Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsgcorp615
    Well in order to prevent this from happening, would you suggest setup an pre-paid acct and let Incentaclick to hand select their publishers for me base on our products and campaign and let them run it 100% versus having us login in and accept individual affiliate?
    Absolutely not. The network will choose the affiliates that generate the most network fees. As you've already pointed out, they care absolutely nothing about your ROI.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsgcorp615
    Also what do you think about incentaclick versus clickbooth which both require $5k pre-paid account and will run it for us.
    Any of the CPA networks will work about the same. Go ahead. Try $5k at each of them and see if either returns a positive ROI. I know one advertiser who blew through $250k. Just consider it your "tuition" and cut it off before it's too much to bear.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsgcorp615
    I am also considering shareasale and have no problem paying the network fees, but it seems like I have to login and manually accept individual affiliate but I prefer to have the network run it for us so we don't have to worry about it.
    ShareASale.com is one of the most ethical affiliate networks. There's a world of difference between the "CPA networks" and "affiliate networks". Even with them, you'll want to actively manage the program. Leads are just too susceptible to fraud to let it run on auto-pilot.

    Perhaps you might want to talk with one of the many OPMs who are active here on ABW?
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  9. #8
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    I completely agree with Coley and Ward's advice, all of it above.

    Coley's earlier post gave you some great info about CPA networks in general - good stuff. The money you will save by following that advice adds up to tons. The ABW-active OPM (Outsourced Program Manager) advice is also golden. These OPMs have learned all these things and much, much more. Many work on at least a partial performance basis - can get you started quickly with minimum risk, can get experienced affiliates to trust things are being done right in your program and can help guide you through many complicated decisions, especially early ones that can leave a long lasting stain if done poorly.

  10. #9
    Believe knight01's Avatar
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    Perhaps this thread should be moved out of the Incentaclick forum. Seems inappropriate, even though accurate, to have it in a forum that is sponsored by a CPA network.

    I don't think it was meant as a bash against Incentclick specifically and being here seems to imply that.

  11. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Moved to the appropriate forum and changed the thread title.

    PS. Knight01, nice post yesterday, I took note of it before I banned the fudger, TY!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    4) Outright Fraud. Some CPA networks will catch the most obvious fraudulent affiliates, but many will slip through. Most of these affiliates will be based in third world countries and some of the more sophisticated ones will have large networks of people filling out fraudulent applications.
    (#5).
    I know its an old post, still want to respond though.
    As the majority of affiliates business is in the US, most of the affiliates are from the US as well. If you reside in a third world country you automatically dont qualify for a lot of programs out there, hmmm, ethics someone? Free trade, maybe? Surely most of the frauds are from the US, just statistics. Now, if you want to apply relative numbers, yes, you maybe right.

    I am an expat living in a third world country, therefore i am guilty by association. The problem here, where I live, is that people do want to earn an extra buck online but they are so incredible ignorant on whats going on in the online world. This makes them extra vulnerable to be duped by the get rich schemes, they get taught by the wrong people. On one of the local boards here they point to digitalpoint as a way to do online business, enough said.

    By the way one of the "nigerian" scam syndicates was actually traced back some former eastern block country.

  13. #12
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    Esome, what is it you are trying to say exactly? I disagree with you - because the affiliate business is prevalent in the US that does not mean that the majority of affiliates are from the US. I know a lot of affiliates - very successful ones at that - from other countries. Since this is a CPA network thread I will add that I bet that over half of their network affiliate base are outside the US. Again, what are you trying to say?

  14. #13
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    PaulenaC, I was merely pointing out that MichaelColey's statement was a little bit crude. In absolute numbers there are more affiliate 'frauds' in the US than everywhere else, on a country by country base. If you would look at it percentage wise, then he is probably right.

    Surely its too easy just to say, the frauds come from 3rd world countries.

    I dont think MichealColey meant it the way I picked it up, I used his statement to lead to my point, hopefully refining the issue a wee bit.

    My point is that most of the people that i know here, who want to become active in online business are victims of these 'frauds'. They themselves did not set out to be frauds but merely got drawn in by the fraudulent programs. A lot of them here, (i live in a 3rd world country) lack the knowledge to distinguish between good and bad programs. Thats why I gave the example of Digitalpoint in my previous post.

  15. #14
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I certainly didn't mean to imply that all (or even most) international affiliates are fraudulent. They aren't. It's just that fraud is disproportionately higher from many international locations. When you deal with CPA Networks (the true subject of this thread), fraudulent affiliates are often not policed very well, so the CPA Networks become a haven for the thieves. This is exasperated by the fact that most CPA Networks allow other CPA Networks to run their offers. When/If a thief does get caught on one network, they just go to the another network that also runs the same offer.

    I'm curious if the original poster ever tried one of the CPA Networks and how it worked out.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  16. #15
    Newbie NBScott's Avatar
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    WOW! That is a bold statement. CPA doesn't work for everybody but by no means are all CPA networks driving crap traffic. Neverblue has a quality and compliance department that monitors all these things anally. If an affiliate is doing anything outside the T&C's that you have written in the agreement advertiser will never pay and the affiliate is at the least flagged and if it's a serious offense terminated.
    Affiliates get creative from time to time but we're on top of it the best we can and the amount of traffic that is generated through legitimate sources is definitely not a trickle.

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