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  1. #1
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    Thomas Golf - no outbidding on PPC?
    From the new advertiser:

    "Additionally, you may NEVER bid higher than us on a keyword, or participate in bid jamming techniques"

    Anybody got a clue as to how an affiliate could ensure they keep to that rule (assuming they accepted this restriction) without spending their entire life manually checking PPC positions for every keyword and PPCSE?

    Cheers.

  2. #2

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    Mind Reading 101. Everyone should have taken the course.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador simcat's Avatar
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    Unhappy
    I've never heard of Thomas Golf, but I've seen that on several other merchants TOS over the years.

  4. #4
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    Doesn't page quality and clickthrough data affect placement in addition to pricing? How would they know if someone was ahead of them for other than price reasons?

    (just asking, I don't do affiliate PPC)

  5. #5
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    Interesting point Marcia. They only mention outbidding, but how indeed could they tell if you outbid them, since position alone doesn't always reflect relative bid prices.

  6. #6
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
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    I guess they will need to send everybody their Adwords user name and password so we can check their bids. (Just kidding of course)

    Yes, this is ridiculous. The sensible thing to do is to place certain trademark related words off limits as is usually done. But, if they are going to place restrictions on generic terms like "golf equipment", then I would certainly not work with this merchant if I had a golf-related site that I wished to promote via ppc.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  7. #7
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJCB
    Anybody got a clue as to how an affiliate could ensure they keep to that rule (assuming they accepted this restriction) without spending their entire life manually checking PPC positions for every keyword and PPCSE?
    You can't. They've stipulated an impossible condition. If they realize it, that's bad - setting you up for reversals. If they don't realize it, that's also bad - ignorance of ppc and managing affs. Drop them and move on. If you work with them, you're going get reversals later when they claim you didn't comply, which is true since you can't possibly do that.

  8. #8
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    " In the PPC and keyword advertising marketplace, publishers may not bid on any spellings or variations of Thomas Golf. (ie. Thomas Golf, Thomasgolf, Thomas, ThomasGolf.com, etc.) Additionally, you may not bid higher than us on a keyword. If we are bidding on a term, you will see our bid amount in the respective PPC system. "


    They must read this thread and came out a new "friendly reminder" of their PPC policy.

    These clueless AMs should take some classes with Donuts before setting up funny rules like this.

  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    14 months ago I could not have said anything about this that would be of any reliable use to you. However, now that I am somewhat of an expert in the field (cough) I can say that it could be many things.

    1. new merchant who doesn't know any better
    2. new merchant who knows better and is setting up reversals
    3. new merchant who needs help understanding the team concept of successful aff marketing.
    4. new AM who doesn't know any better
    5. new AM who knows better and is setting up reversals
    6. new AM who needs help understanding the team concept of successful aff marketing.
    7. new merchant to ppc
    8. new AM to ppc
    9. corner golf store that has visions of sugar plums and instant wealth by going "e"

    MOO (my new shop term for "my opinion only") I would give them the benefit of the doubt and approach it as if they don't know any better. That said I would contact the AM who I'm sure openly discloses his/her name and contact phone. I would talk to the AM and voice the concerns raised here, and maybe ask them to teach me the new hi tech method they must have that would allow me to identify how much they are bidding. I would feel them out for their knowledge on the G and Y quality indexing that determines placement.

    If I did not feel comfortable with the sincerity of the answers I received, I'd drop the program like a bag of potatoes and look for another golf program.
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atonca
    " These clueless AMs should take some classes with Donuts
    Actually, I've pretty much taught Donuts most of what he knows about PPC. He's been a quick study, picked up the ball and ran with it. At first it was "hit the ball, drag donuts." But now it warms my heart to see how this simple man from Central Florida, with a heart as big as the earth has responded and become almost self sufficient......
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  11. #11
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Thanks Alan, you've been like a grandfather to me.

  12. #12
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Suddenly, I feel sooooo old......

    Good thing I have good self esteem, and my boyish good looks!!
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  13. #13
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    -to Alan

    -to Donuts


    I did send them an email this morning asking them how to make it happened-- "If we are bidding on a term, you will see our bid amount in the respective PPC system."

    No response from them yet.

  14. #14
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    Thanks for the super summary ALH. There are other golf merchants out there, so I think I'll give this one a miss.

  15. #15
    Full Member kea12345678's Avatar
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    Yep, It is so impossible to actually do what they want, I just skip those merchants.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by atonca

    I did send them an email this morning asking them how to make it happened-- "If we are bidding on a term, you will see our bid amount in the respective PPC system."

    No response from them yet.
    Instead of answering my questions, they "chose to expire its affiliation with me effective 10-Jun-2007"

    It must take them a very long think to make this decision...

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager Matt McWilliams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Thanks Alan, you've been like a grandfather to me.
    NICE!
    Matt McWilliams
    Call Me At: (317) 825-8826 | Follow Me On Twitter: @MattMcWilliams2 | Connect With Me On LinkedIn

  18. #18
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    So that's what MOO means?
    I guess I should have known that men I hear the cows mooing they was just expressing their opinion :-)
    Expert who says Moo

    a.k.a. OJMOO

    Cow Dance


  19. #19
    The Beer Hunter LearnAbout's Avatar
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    I have contacted Sal from Thomasgolf asking him for an official reply.

    Frank
    [URL=http://www.golfbeginnerguide.com/]Golf Beginner Guide[/URL] ; [URL=http://www.ladygolfersguide.com/]Lady Golfers Guide[/URL]

  20. #20
    The Beer Hunter LearnAbout's Avatar
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    Here's the reply I got from a 'Richard' from Thomasgolf. I have no idea what position he holds or if he is authorized to speak on behalf of his company, and I post the below for your info only. NOTE: I have edited the emails for obvious reasons but changed nothing else:

    From: 'Thomas Golf' sales [at] thomasgolf dot com

    Sent: Sat Jun 9 21:04

    To: frank@ .com

    Subject: RE: Affiliate offer

    Frank,

    Thank you for contacting us about this.
    As we are new to CJ, we had to go through an initial learning period.
    Hopefully the following will clear up some of the confusion.
    The policy to not bid higher than us on a keyword came from looking at other
    Advertiser profiles, but the person in charge of setting up the account in
    CJ failed to check with someone knowledgeable in PPC as to its feasibility.
    We have now removed that part of the policy, and will not reverse any
    commissions related to bid amount.

    The primary objective of our account with CJ is to give content-site owners
    a means to generate income by including our links on their pages.

    Please feel free to post this on the discussion board so others will know we
    have corrected the policy and will not be reversing any commissions.

    Richard
    Thomas Golf
    [URL=http://www.golfbeginnerguide.com/]Golf Beginner Guide[/URL] ; [URL=http://www.ladygolfersguide.com/]Lady Golfers Guide[/URL]

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