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  1. #1
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    I pulled all merchants associated with MMM, and any other parasites a couple of months ago. I see a lot of members here complaining or getting on merchants to drop em, but still promoting other merchants with the same associations on their site. Explain to me how that is not hypocritical. Look at some of the nominations, anybody see any hypocritical posts there? We have forums here with merchats still associated, is that hypocritical? If you make a posts complaining about this make sure your backyard(site) is clean itself.

    Sales are everywhere, sales are mine.

  2. #2
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    Amen.

    Why did you change your post in OS forum?

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  3. #3
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I agree, TrustNo1. I know that arguments can be made that some merchants might not be aware of the issues, but there are a few - and one on this board in particular - that know the difference between right and wrong, and chooses money over right.

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager
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    Are you guys referring to me?

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  5. #5
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    nm, no use

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    At last count over 600 merchants were aligned with the parasites. That leaves just a handful of good ones. Unless your site exclusively promotes neon body jewelry items or used Pet.com sock puppets as indy programs then their littleleft to spur sales. The parasites have all the inside scoop on who converts and attracts shoppers and recruits them or they target their sites. How can we relay the impact of the CyberThieves to the networks and other merchants if we have no access to legit stats.

    Whats the lonelest place on earth? A large shopping Mall with just 4 small stores open inside it. My shopping Mall isn't just a database directory of merchants as i need product to display in 75 categories. Aside from OS (name brand closeouts) I do not showcase any parasite merchant and never will.

    One day soon even OS will see their site is becoming Popup fodder for every "incent" BHO wank who comes along hawking loss leaders within their storefront. Even Shawn will see that my paltry 4000 clicks per month to OS should earn me more than 85.00. We both can bet that the parasites got 500.00 out of those clicks and dented their ROI due to higher commission rate and rebates & store Coupons. So the stolen or point of sale hijacked traffic cost them more per sale than any of my straight thru non-redirected shoppers.

    If that can't convience a Public Corp to take action and drop the parasites, then I close down or place some real rants on those thousands of daily page views. I wonder if my sporting goods or hobby section would trigger multiple parasite popups or alerts if I called every vermin infested visitor shopping there a SOB rather then furnish them with actual links. They're just going away and will never earn me a dime. So I place some very enticing SE food -unreal low priced product descriptions to make them drool and make the links go to a unrelated parasite free merchant or some POPup hellhole. Better yet I'll make the link go back to the same page.

    Sony Play Station2 with 4 free PS2 games for $47.88 while supply lasts. With every purchase you get 2 free tickets and airfare to Las Vagas for Elvis's next concert and a chance to win 250,000 cash....click here.

    The damn incent popups will be eating each other and all freebee sites will be sending over a ton of traffic. I'll place a CPM/CPC Ad top & bottom ( the only exit) and actually make money from the page. Might even make a POPUP saying Gotcha you cheapskate when they get caught in the loop.

    WebMaster Mike

  7. #7
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Actually, I think the loneliest place on earth would be an affiliate manager's office after every affiliate - but 1 - has dropped him.

    That's the only way some merchants are going to get off their....hineys.

    As for Overstock, okay, I'll go ahead and ask you three simple questions. Answer YES or NO.

    1. Is eBates popping up on affiliate based traffic?

    2. Is eBates still an affiliate of yours?

    3. Will they still be popping up on affiliate traffic during the most profitable week of the year ( which is right now )?

    Eh, no reason for me to ask, I guess, as the conversation will just be turned to Jedi Knights and Rogue Mercenaries cavorting about the Empire.

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  8. #8
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    Just as a point of reference here elbowcreek...

    Would you answer three questions for me?

    1) Did Shawn volunteer his time to go to NY to attempt some dialog concerning these selfsame issues - on his company's dime I might add?

    2) Do you honestly believe that he is doing absolutely nothing concerning this and just stringing you along with promises that he is trying to come to a resolution that will restrict one of his top producers?

    3) Do you think that Overstock is going to go under tomorrow if all the affiliates except one (as proclaimed in your previous post) decide to leave them?

    I ask just for my own edification because, although I did indeed vote for "anyone but Shawn" when it came to the folks going to the NY meeting, it had nothing whatsoever to do with his integrity, or lack of same. I simply wanted affiliates to represent affiliates.

    Now, you obviously think he is less than honest, but would you mind answering my questions please?

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #9
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    Don: I'm wondering if you have the right Shawn in mind? The Shawn whom we voted to send to the NY meeting was Shawn Collins, of ClubMom. Shawn Schwegman of Overstock was pivotal in getting the meeting launched, and he was present in the audience, but he was not on the list to be voted for.

    Just a point of clarification.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Just a note to all who talk about affiliate managers who are still associated with Ebates:
    I have talked to many affiliate managers about this issue, and there are many who would love to drop them but can't. Higher ups won't allow it. We should not go after affiliate managers just because they are still associated, especially with personal attacks as it may be out of their hands.
    There are even some who want to get a forum for their program going here at ABestWeb, yet their bosses won't let them because the bosses embrace Ebates. Some are even looking for other jobs because of this issue, they don't want to work for companies that work with parasitic companies.
    We don't always know what is going on behind the scenes, not all affiliate managers have complete control over their programs.
    Some programs I am still heavily promoting on my site, to help give the affiliate manager leverage in their quest to drop Ebates.

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com


  11. #11
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    Forgive me elbowcreek....

    I did indeed have the wrong Shawn in mind. Thank you Elisabeth.

    Damn! I know I'm probably the oldest ABW member, but I don't have to act like it! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    Once again, my apologies....

    Obstinate (and damned foolish) Don

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  12. #12
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, I for one just found out this week that two of my merchants are associated with e-bates. I thought I had checked all my merchants before. But, I guess, I missed them or they joined up after I made the pages. Anyhow, I plan to replace them, time permitting.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  13. #13
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    TrustNo1: If an affiliate has not yet dumped a merchant who partners with a parasite, that may pose some philosophical problems, but it's not the affiliate who's doing something wrong. Be careful not to heap guilt on the wrong person!

    Several savvy affiliates I know are approaching the problem by looking for reputable independent merchants to add to their mix. You might still find problematic merchants on some people's sites, but rest assured it's the merchants who have pledged to be parasite-free who are the focus of new promotional efforts. Problematic merchants are not always dropped cold-turkey, but they're left on the promotional back burner and eventually replaced as alternatives are located.

    Contrary to what Webmaster Mike says, there are many fine independent merchants that one can promote. It just takes some research to find them.

  14. #14
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Seems like us oldies are easily fooled obstinatedon [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I also thought it was the Overstock Shawn, like I always say we are never too old to learn, or are we? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  15. #15
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    ROFL!

    Gordon, I've gotta tell ya pal - I've been putting in these 20 hour days for more than a month now, and it's finally getting to me. Had I known that my new enterprise would take off the way it has, I would have started off marketing it entirely different.

    I sent out 391 e-mails to many folks I have worked with directly in the past; expecting a response from 10-12 of them that it sounded like a good idea. Unbelievably, I got 182 e-mails back within 4 days from folks wanting to talk to me about the products. I got an additional 33 e-mails from people that were directly referred to me by the initial group.

    I have flown across the country twice in the past month, stopping in a myriad of places - but managed to do most of the work via the phone and computer.

    When I left LinkShare, I did it primarily for health reasons as I had cancer in April, and really didn't feel like I was contributing as much as I should have been due to the fact that I was so damned tired all the time after the surgury. Thought I could run this little enterprise in 10-20 hours per week, and be perfectly happy.

    $3.7 million in orders in the first 29 days. So much for slowing down.

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Damn! I know I'm probably the oldest ABW member <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Dang .. Older than Ssanf? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Dave

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Some of the merchants still associated with the likes of Ebates still manage to make me a tidy chunk of change. Granted, I may not be getting all I rightfully deserve, but it is still a good amount.
    I cannot just drop them all when I have a family to support. This is my family's only income. I also have elderly parents that I support.

    As in the case of many merchants, there are other issues to our decisions, it is not cut and dried.

    While I do drop those merchants who blatanly support the likes of Ebates, and are proud of it, I do not feel this is the case with Overstock. I think there are things going on behind the scenes we know nothing about. I have seen positive action on Shawns part, mainly the Nov.7th meeting that would not have happened without him. I feel greater things are coming and we will know the reasoning soon enough. I have not lost all faith yet.

    My instincts never fail me, and I know I am right in supporting Shawn. If I didn't trust my instincts, I would never have made my site what it is today.

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com


  18. #18
    Pimp Duck popdawg's Avatar
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    $3.7 million in orders in the first 29 days. So much for slowing down.


    .....


    where do we sign up? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I'd be happy with 3.7 orders

    Game on!!!!

  19. #19
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    Connie...

    You do what you have to do in order to survive - period.

    You have been around the horn as it pertains to this particular business space for longer than most, and anyone who decides that it's best having you reduce your sales figures just for the greater good can simply start sending you checks to compensate.

    Anyway, that's my opinion.

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  20. #20
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    That is a substantial sum PopDawg, and what I put in my pocket is not exactly the highest percentage in the world. But, this business is simply a fringe element of the affiliate world in that bricks & clicks (who isn't today); coupled with the very strong pure-play and the brick and mortar companies with a fairly serious advertising budget sees the benefits immediately.

    Frankly, I got lucky in the niche due to the fact that my partner has been after me for years to do this, and I resisted because I wasn't sure it would be a money-maker. Oops.

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  21. #21
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    @ Obstinatedon

    Sorry to hear about your illness, I trust you are winning the battle?

    Glad to hear your little enterprise has taken off, little [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]
    Be careful you do not put too much into it and cannot enjoy the benefits of it.

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    There are other ways to work towards the greater good than dropping merchants and losing any last tidbits of income you already have.

    We are all in different situations, we all have to do what is best for us first. That doesn't mean we aren't still fighting the fight.
    I am not in this for a popularity contest.

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com


  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1. Is eBates popping up on affiliate based traffic? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Intermittently, yes.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>2. Is eBates still an affiliate of yours? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    at the present time, yes

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3. Will they still be popping up on affiliate traffic during the most profitable week of the year ( which is right now )? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    currently unknown

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1) Did Shawn volunteer his time to go to NY to attempt some dialog concerning these selfsame issues - on his company's dime I might add? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    yes. I also setup the meeting and got several fierce competitors to agree to come to the same table to put this issue to bed once and for all, a task I might add, that was not exactly easy. I have been pushing FOR a standard that the networks agree on to setup guidelines for how to handle this very issue, as have many others.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>2) Do you honestly believe that he is doing absolutely nothing concerning this and just stringing you along with promises that he is trying to come to a resolution that will restrict one of his top producers? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    An Industry Standard should not allow intrusive behavior if the traffic comes from an affiliate site. That would solve the current scenario with not only eBates, but a host of others.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My instincts never fail me, and I know I am right in supporting Shawn. If I didn't trust my instincts, I would never have made my site what it is today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Connie, you rule. Now what do I owe you for the comments? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Seriously though, I have always been against "ParasiteWare" as you call it. I have always fought to put a stop to it. Sometimes we don't always agree on the same tactics, and sometimes large companies do not move on a moments notice in the middle of the bussiest season ever... but, progress is being made. Look where we were 3 short months ago, and look where we are now. We're inches away from something big.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are other ways to work towards the greater good than dropping merchants and losing any last tidbits of income you already have. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    There are hundreds of merchants, and only a few affiliate networks. New Merchants sprout up all the time. There are very few affiliate networks. The Industry Standard that the Affiliate Networks agree on will change the game and make life better for everyone. Perhaps we should ask/elect Wayne to check the progress and ask for a firm date of delivery. It’s almost been a month. I’m sure the Affiliate Networks can provide an update that will shed some light on the subject. Meanwhile, we can also check the status of eBates/TopMoxie to see when the patch is coming.

    Thanks,

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    Sometimes we don't always agree on the same tactics, and sometimes large companies do not move on a moments notice in the middle of the bussiest season ever... but, progress is being made. Look where we were 3 short months ago, and look where we are now. We're inches away from something big.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Shawn, these big companies like Ebates have had more than a moments notice. I really do believe they are doing what they are doing on purpose, because it is the busiest season of the year. This is no "glitch" in their system. That is my instincts again, and they are never wrong.

    Look where we were 3 months ago? Lets see, Ebates overwriting affiliate links...hmmm...not much changed.

    I sure hope that "something big" hurries up. 2 more weeks and the big online shopping boom is winding down. And Ebates accomplishes their goal to have just one more big holiday. Bet they have one heck of a company party this year!

    If the networks do not come up with something good, I will certainly be looking for a different line of work in the coming year.

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com


  25. #25
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    First off, I believe my comments were directed at a company, not that companies AM. Is Shawn honest? Well, I don't really know him. He doesn't really know me either, for that matter, I could be some raving lunatic ( but I'm not ) . I believe I have always said that he strikes me as someone who would do the right thing if the higher ups would let him.

    Don - I'd be happy to answer your questions:

    1) Did Shawn volunteer his time to go to NY to attempt some dialog concerning these selfsame issues - on his company's dime I might add?

    Yes, he did.

    2) Do you honestly believe that he is doing absolutely nothing concerning this and just stringing you along with promises that he is trying to come to a resolution that will restrict one of his top producers?

    Well, let's see....hmmmmm....how many months has this argument been going on? This is kinda reminding me of the peace negotiations with North Vietnam, where the diplomats argued over everything, except peace. Is he dragging his feet? No, but I think Overstock as a whole could be a lot more aggressive on this issue.

    3) Do you think that Overstock is going to go under tomorrow if all the affiliates except one (as proclaimed in your previous post) decide to leave them?

    Nope, certainly not. But upper management might want to know why everyone left, and began promoting their competitors.

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

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