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  1. #1
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Yahoo "fixed" their problems by doubling PPC costs
    (Scratching my head as I say) I went on this morning to adjust bids on Yahoo for one of our campaigns. On this campaign our top performing keywords are all in top 4 positions, (have been for many months) and have been running 0.50 to 0.62 PC.

    The campaign quality score is also excellent, and CTR on top terms has been high. Well, in true Y form, with all of the problems they are having, the marketshare they are losing, their archaic user panel, and the just announced "rebate for low quality traffic" hype mail they sent to advertisers the past few days, my terms suddenly dropped yesterday to positions of between 35 to 58. Ouch!! Anyone else notice this "minor" change yet? WTG Y!
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  2. #2
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I'd noticed that my clicks from there have plunged the last few days, but haven't gotten around to tracking down the problem.

    When I wake up I'll have to take a closer look. Although I'd be surprised if all my terms are affected, there has been something wrong with some of them. I'd been hoping it would correct itself--occasionally I get a slow-click week from Y PPC, and then it rebounds.

    Did you notice this across the board, or just on one campaign?
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  3. #3
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    http://www.ysearchblog.com/

    "June 06, 2007
    Weather Report: Yahoo! Search Update
    We rolled out some changes to our index and ranking algorithm last night. So, as you know, throughout this process you may see some changes in ranking as well as some shuffling of the pages included in the index. This update should be complete very soon."

    the rollout's not done yet. sometimes as things roll out, it's all snakey. give it a little time - a day or two - to see where you land after it's rolled out. might want to keep an eye on their blog to see when the rollout is done.

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    http://www.ysearchblog.com/

    "June 06, 2007
    Weather Report: Yahoo! Search Update
    We rolled out some changes to our index and ranking algorithm last night. So, as you know, throughout this process you may see some changes in ranking as well as some shuffling of the pages included in the index. This update should be complete very soon."

    the rollout's not done yet. sometimes as things roll out, it's all snakey. give it a little time - a day or two - to see where you land after it's rolled out. might want to keep an eye on their blog to see when the rollout is done.
    I've got a call into the supervisory rep I've been working with the past four months on the "other" problems I reported here in another thread. Hopefully what you suggest as a possibility will be a reality. I'll have to wait and see. No negative complaint here because it would do nothing to change reality. But an objective observation......

    In nearly 6 years of working with Y, they do tend (putting it mildly) to shoot themselves in the foot on an ongoing basis. Unfortunately, this time, their foot was on the advertisers gut when they did.

    Leader.....

    It was across the board on 13 ad groups. Very few terms were not affected. At present, upon updating when I just got back from delivering supplies to the coffee shops, some of the terms have slipped even further. Ex: one term that has been 2.3 in results at 0.52 has slipped to # 90 (even though I raised the bid to 0.87). This is where patience and composure is required so we can see how it plays out.
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  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Hilarious update gang!! Read this!!
    I finally heard from my Yahoo rep about an hour or so ago. When I mentioned that they started rolling out a new algo last night, he said: "We did? No one informed us about it."

    He was going to their C.S. VP to see why they had not been informed and confirm it. I am laughing my a - - off right now. Hopefully numbers are being skewed right now as they roll it out. He said it generally takes 7 - 10 days for all the indexing etc changes to occur. Until then, at least we were able to update Yahoo reps on their most recent change today!!
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  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    hahahaa, fun story Alan!!! those yahoo ppc guys have done more for humor in affiliate and internet marketing that about anyone else. :-)

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    I don't get what Donuts linked to has to do with PPC? That was for the natural SERPS.

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    hahahaa, fun story Alan!!! those yahoo ppc guys have done more for humor in affiliate and internet marketing that about anyone else. :-)
    Donuts, about now I'd sure by God be able to enjoy a day over in Boca Grande!! We could laugh about this one over a cold one or three. Yep, their contribution to comedy in the ppc community warrants their own stand up act at the comedy club. Oh well - on to doing more SEO!!
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  9. #9
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    I don't get what Donuts linked to has to do with PPC? That was for the natural SERPS.
    I think there's more to it than that T, but I'll wait to hear from the rep tomorrow to see if anyone there knows what's up with this new ppc fiasco. I would think that perhaps their SERP indexing has something to do with quality scoring in their ppc programs, doesn't it?

    I'm looking forward to hearing more tomorrow - Let's hope it settles down over the next week. It's a 6 year and counting learning experience for me, but I'm not sure I want to major in Yahooism.
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  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    "I would think that perhaps their SERP indexing has something to do with quality scoring in their ppc programs, doesn't it?"

    Usually they're separate departments. I think that's why your PPC rep had no idea what you were talking about

    **but they (PPC) had an update too recently from what people have posted here and on the blog.
    Last edited by Trust; June 7th, 2007 at 07:46 PM.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    That blog up there is more for natural search, for PPC it looks like this one:

    http://www.ysmblog.com/

    then they have one for the Publisher Network:

    http://www.ypnblog.com/

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    shoot, i had posted a link to the wrong blog.

    meant this one:
    www.ysmblog.com

    there are new things being rolled out in both organic and ppc, see the blogs for each.

    the ppc change, the quality score / quality pricing thing, has not finished rolling out in north america from what i've been told. that some-people-are-rolled-some-will-be-soon is the disruption i'm speaking of waiting patiently for a few more days to see where you settle out after everyone's been rolled.

  13. #13
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    whatever they did, I am benefiting from it. Conversion is up, Cost per acquisition is down drastically for me. I can't really pin point and say it was all Y!'s new changes as we have been doing some major overhauling on Y! this week.

    So far "I like"

    -the odd one out

  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I just got done looking over some of my more important terms.
    I don't seem to have been hit with the price-rise effect, but I did discover that somehow, in the transition to the "new" account interface, one of my most important terms was no longer in my account at all! Needless to say, I've fixed that.

    I wasn't trying to maintain top positions in the paid results, so maybe that accounts for the difference in what I'm seeing compared to your experience. The only times I'm near the top bid (or am at the top), is when there aren't too many other bidders, LOL.

    That was for the natural SERPS.
    Yeah, the blog's for the free part. Checking the free SERPs, it looks like the new algo isn't completely rolled out yet. I only see changes on the more major keywords.
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  15. #15
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    That blog up there is more for natural search, for PPC it looks like this one:

    http://www.ysmblog.com/

    then they have one for the Publisher Network:

    http://www.ypnblog.com/
    Thanks Trust

    I read the Y PR etc - sounds like more of the same. I hate to say it, but everytime I get a Y newsletter announcing some exclusive new ""Benefit"" they are going to provide to advertisers, my rear cheeks pucker. With this a.m.'s new algo launch, the Q & A from one of the Y blogs is worth a look...

    ***** asks:

    Please address the core issue: Does conversion rate data affect prices in any way, and if so how?

    Y Responds:

    "Yes, conversion rate is an important factor in determining pricing, along with other factors, but we’re simply not at liberty to divulge the entire recipe. Sorry."
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  16. #16
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    shoot, i had posted a link to the wrong blog.

    I've never heard you say "shoot" before mad dog!!

    meant this one:
    www.ysmblog.com

    that some-people-are-rolled-some-will-be-soon is the disruption i'm speaking of waiting patiently for a few more days to see where you settle out after everyone's been rolled.
    Hopefully "some" rolled out and others on the way does not dilute it even more. Only time will tell. In the meantime my SEO guy is really excited with his brand new project!! LOL
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  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Latest update - as of 1:20 MDST today.

    Just got off the phone with the Y rep again regarding the huge swing in ppc costs.

    He stated that "engineering" told him that there "was" a behavior problem that caused some skewing of ppc bids / positions, but that it is resolved now.

    Hearing that, I took him to my account and had him review TODAY's positions with me so he could see that it is NOT resolved. For example, our best performing key term three days ago cost $0.58 for # 2.8 position. Yesterday it was at 127th. For fun, last night I adjusted the bid to $1.27. Today it shows in the 90th position. I think I'd have to bid my F 350 to get the # 3 position!!

    I asked how the key terms could have been in 2 - 6 positions for nearly five months, and then overnight, drop to 90, 100, 144th positions when the quality score on the adgroups / key terms is excellent? His reply was that probably (overnight) a whole bunch of advertisers placed bids of $3 - $8 to get top positions.

    The bottom line is that to maintain our long term positioning would cost up to 20 times more than it did until Tuesday night. My only thought is to wait a bit longer and see what shakes out. Maybe they will lose enough advertisers to turn the light bulb on, or maybe Y has suddenly become a provider of such superior traffic quality that their keyword bids demand several times what that little snot nosed G gets!! LOL
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  18. #18
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx
    His reply was that probably (overnight) a whole bunch of advertisers placed bids of $3 - $8 to get top positions.
    Man, those guys are funny!

    Quote Originally Posted by ALH - AmeritrustRx
    maybe Y has suddenly become a provider of such superior traffic quality that their keyword bids demand several times what that little snot nosed G gets!!
    I bet it'll smooth itself out after the rolling is all done... cuz I really doubt your "maybe" above. :-)

  19. #19
    Analytics Dude Kevin's Avatar
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    Isn't the Y traffic just the ones who can't spell google, Alan?

    Just like MSN PPC traffic is the folks who can't change a browser default page...

    All jokes aside Alan, I take it you're finding the Yahoo traffic to be worth paying for these days (at the old rates anyhow)? I gave up on them long ago...
    Kevin Webster
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  20. #20
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Man, those guys are funny! I bet it'll smooth itself out after the rolling is all done... cuz I really doubt your "maybe" above. :-)
    I feel your optimism Donuts. But I always prepare for a possible cavity search when I visit Dr.Y.
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