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  1. #1
    Newbie HazelB's Avatar
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    Implications For ABW's Part in CJ Class Action Suits
    I noticed that this specific forum is mentioned multiple times in the class action complaint against CJ for affiliates. Does this mean that this forum's contents and user information will be subpeonaed (sp?) by the defendants in this case?

    I'm not real comfortable posting with the sword of Damocles over my head. Are any precautions being taken to protect posters?

    Not angry or anything but I was just surprised that this forum seems to be an integral part of the complaint and I didn't know that until I read the PDF of the complaint.

    Thanks
    Hazel

  2. #2

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    What class action suit?

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Hazel,

    First of all Welcome to ABW.

    Yes, ABW is mentioned at length and as a source of information pertaining and crucial to the class action brought against CJ / Valueclick. However, please realize that the suit is against CJ and not affiliates so any information posted that is pertaining to or as evidence of the case would most certainly be subpoenaed to help support the case against CJ.

    All that said, the posts are all publicly accessible so there is no need to subpoena them per se but I'm sure they would want to subpoena certain members for their knowledge of the events and postings thereof (ie. Todd Crawford (ex CJ employee) at the specified relative dates of the lawsuit.

    My policy to protect members and their privacy will be upheld as always and only a court order would release any data.

    Does that answer your question or is there a specific issue / question you have?
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5

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    Ah, thanks, Haiko.

  6. #6
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HazelB
    I'm not real comfortable posting with the sword of Damocles over my head.
    I've always appreciated that phrase, here's the wiki background:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_Damocles

    It refers to sitting in someone's seat who is powerful and the peril that can be seen from their view.

    I can see you mean the threat of us facing a court or the legal system, but it brings to mind for me, thoughts of what things look would look like to one of us, from CJ's seat.

    In my mind, we are the underdogs / underlings so to speak - CJ makes the rules and decides how to enforce them - we get to choose to follow them or leave. And I feel that if I did sit in their chair, I'd be more likely to issue an edict declaring an end to cheating BHO affiliates, than to be fearful of the repercussions of being the powerful them.

  7. #7
    Classic Rocker Mack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HazelB
    I'm not real comfortable posting with the sword of Damocles over my head. Are any precautions being taken to protect posters?
    This issue isn't just ABW, but anywhere on the Internet. The best way to handle this is never post anything, or place in an email, anything you wouldn't post on the front page of a newspaper with your name and phone number under it.

  8. #8
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    This issue isn't just ABW, but anywhere on the Internet. The best way to handle this is never post anything, or place in an email, anything you wouldn't post on the front page of a newspaper with your name and phone number under it.
    Oh geez! Can I retract 3000 posts??? LOL

  9. #9
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    Oh geez! Can I retract 3000 posts??? LOL
    Sure!

    *Keeps your other 570-some-odd posts--the ones that have the really tabloid-worthy material in 'em*
    *Sells to Inquirer*

  10. #10
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Hazel,

    three words..... fo - get - aboutit

    Posts disagreeing with or stating what the writer believes are wrongful CJ practices would not support a successfully litigated claim against an individual. Carried to the extreme, if CJ went after every poster who had something negative to say about them, they would have thousands of individual damage cases to litigate, and that would be impractical to say the least. So IMHO you can rest easy knowing Damocles is nowhere near.
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  11. #11
    Newbie HazelB's Avatar
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    Thanks for your response Haiko. I respect that you were very honest and didn't try to spin things at all.

    I was really freaked out when I read it and perhaps posted too soon. You know, the sword of Damocles comment LOL.

    An excellent example of my concern, though is the thread here...
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=92621
    CJ might use that thread in an effort to show that ABW posters flagrantly disregarded CJ's TOS with no one trying to stop them or remove their posts.

    Now, that is a ridiculous statement to make about that thread but I've been involved in lawsuits and they make you want to take back a lot of things that you said in anger or even in jest. They twist these things.

    I have never had a problem with CJ. I have never contacted them for support. When I have problems with CJ, I come to this forum and almost always find the answers here. They are one of my most valuable business partners. On the other hand, I completely understand the complaints in the class action suit and am very interested to see how this plays out BUT I do not wish to participate in it and would hate for one of my posts to be used in a manner that would force me to become involved.

    'nuff said
    Hazel

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HazelB

    An excellent example of my concern, though is the thread here...
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=92621
    CJ might use that thread in an effort to show that ABW posters flagrantly disregarded CJ's TOS with no one trying to stop them or remove their posts.

    Now, that is a ridiculous statement to make about that thread but I've been involved in lawsuits and they make you want to take back a lot of things that you said in anger or even in jest. They twist these things.
    Where are you getting that an ABW poster has flagrantly disregarding CJ's TOS? The example cited appears to be a merchant doing so, if anyone at all. Why are you overly concerned since you have what, 7 posts here so far? Shall Haiko start censoring any negative talk about CJ? If you don't slander CJ, you'll have no issues (keep in mind the legal definition of slander/libel).

  13. #13
    Member Voxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HazelB
    I completely understand the complaints in the class action suit and am very interested to see how this plays out BUT I do not wish to participate in it and would hate for one of my posts to be used in a manner that would force me to become involved.

    Hazel
    I too, while interested in the outcome have no intention of getting involved in a suit against what I consider a valuable partner.

  14. #14
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    By valuable partner, do you mean VC/CJ/BF?

    What is it that they do that is of value to you?

    If you've been following the back and forth in the legal case, you'd see that CJ is claiming they're not responsible for much of anything...
    http://affiliatefairplay.com/newsblo...dvertisers-do/

    I think you mean you make money through them and you're afraid to lose it.
    Let me know if I'm wrong here.
    In any case, fear and value are not the same thing.

    Please let me know why their value to you would be threatened by your involvement with this case? If not threatened, do you mean you are so pleased by their behavior towards you as an affiliate (or merchant) that you think this case (actually cases) is without merit?

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador
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    HazelB:

    Would you like me to remove your 7 posts?

  16. #16
    Newbie HazelB's Avatar
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    ticketguyz : That's my point. You can be made to have to prove ridiculously obvious things like that. If Haiko was into censoring posts, I don't think this thread would be here

    Donuts : You hit the nail on the head with "I think you mean you make money through them and you're afraid to lose it."

    I've been doing this a long time. I ran mailing lists for a large catalog back in the 80's before the internet became big. I have seen some super biz relationships destroyed by stupid 'stuff' and I admit that I walk on eggshells around my best partnerships.

    Adam Ward : That would solve nothing because it is too late to take anything back. It would only provide food to feed the conspiracy trolls Haiko can vouch that I have at least a basic grasp of Vbulletin and there is a lot of data in there besides just posts and profiles.


    Hazel

  17. #17
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Looks to me like some of you are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

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  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I sure hope everyone in CJ/VC/BF's top 100 get their records supoened to see where they engaged in nefarious commission schemes. It has nothing to do with ABW posts or those victimized by the networks and their premium partners. If you were a top earner at CJ/VC/BF your already a prime suspect and possible witness.

    Anyone buying substancial BHO train rides from enities kicked and then re-instated by CJ will be under the spotlight. It will get interesting when the multiple hat wearing ( Black & White hat playing) Super Affiliates start complaining their commissions were hijacked by other dual hat Super Affiliates in a courtroom.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  19. #19
    I like traffic lights
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    "Nassiri & Jung LLP and Hagens Berman LLP are representing affiliates and merchants across the country who have been harmed by adware practices."

    What about affiliates OUTSIDE the country?

  20. #20
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drewbert
    What about affiliates OUTSIDE the country?
    www.cjclassaction.com

    Read the entire page. Near the middle, you'll find this (my bolding):
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    CONTACT AN ADWARE CLASS ACTION ATTORNEY

    If you or someone you know is currently or was previously an affiliate (or publisher) or merchant (or advertiser) with ValueClick, Commission Junction and/or Be Free, you may be eligible to file a claim or participate in the lawsuits. Nassiri & Jung LLP and Hagens Berman LLP are representing affiliates and merchants across the country who have been harmed by adware practices. Please contact Nassiri & Jung LLP to discuss your legal rights at no cost or obligation. [DISCLAIMER] We will handle all inquiries with the strictest confidentiality, and we will protect your information to the full extent permitted by law. Inquiries from Canada, Europe and other nations are also welcome.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  21. #21
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    For many years, affiliates have been asking... "what can I do to stop the thievery of adware?" It seems to me that signing up for this case, is something affiliates can do.

    I have not yet signed up myself - I just haven't been thinking about it until now. I've been thinking about being a member of the class later, once things move forward.

    With the post above asking about joining the case, I've been reminded that this is an opportunity to do something meaningful towards trying to end the cheating.

    I have some fears about the repercussions to my business, but am thinking today about what affiliate marketing will become if this suit fails. It makes me shudder.

    Motions to dismiss, and rebuttals, are flying back and forth as we speak - if I wait much longer to decide to join or not, it may be too late.

    I feel that I need to make my own personal decision, likely today or tomorrow. I leave for 10-day vacation this Friday and am feeling that it's now or never time for me.

    So, added to my to-do list for today, is to make my decision regarding the "SUBMIT YOUR CASE" opportunity at cjclassaction.com.

    Anyone else thinking about it or made their decision about submitting your case as part of the suit?

  22. #22
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Anyone else thinking about it or made their decision about submitting your case as part of the suit?
    Not until reading your post. My original thoughts were that I was too new to the game to have much of a claim, however we get so few chances to REALLY have our voices heard that it makes since to join the suit. I think that the more affiliates that join the suit the more the courts will realize the impact of Adware and other BHO's have on our livelihoods .

    There are just too many things that effect our incomes that we have absolutely no control over, this is an opportunity to get some of that control back.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  23. #23
    Internet Cowboy
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    As this case progresses there should be a letter sent to those who are eligible for attachment (CJ affiliates and merchants) alerting them of the suit and explaining their options.

  24. #24
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Scooter, you're talking about people who get defined as being in the class, should things go forward. I'm not talking about being a passive member of the possible class, later. I'm talking about the law firm involved, requesting now, for others to come forward. This is the question I think many affiliates here should consider.
    Last edited by Donuts; July 31st, 2007 at 11:29 AM.

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Those who want to play on a level playing field in the affiliate referral game will signup. Those not wanting to mess with the field tilting in their direction won't. Many wear both hats and breast their cards hoping their blackhat competitors get whacked by this class action. Donuts is an experience Adwhore gunslinger with many notches on his guns. When he has his quickdraw adversary facing the bright sun (or FTC spotlight) he won't hesitate to play Doc Holiday vs Johnny Ringo in the I'm your Huckleberry scene in the "Tombstone" movie.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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