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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    FlamingoWorld.com cookie stuffing?
    This is a repost per Haiko's post on this thread.

    When a visitor comes to a merchant page on flamingoworld.com an automatic pop-up in a window, via an affiliate link, opens up to the merchant's site. Without any click or any sort of action from the visitor. Isn't this cookie stuffing?

    Examples:
    http://www.flamingoworld.com/coupons/Abebooks.com

    Here is the script for the cookie stuffing pop-up:
    HTML Code:
    '<script language="javascript"> 
    		'
    	</script>

  2. #2
    Pimp Duck popdawg's Avatar
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    Been away, now I'm back. Not as much, but I'm back & starting from scratch. Where I was, was fantastic. Where I am now, less so. Things have changed, become harder. So have I. Game ON!!!
    ================================================================

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    This is what started it. So it should be here.

  4. #4
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    "Isn't this cookie stuffing?"

    Yes, it is to me.

    The page you linked to on her site did not open a new window for me and I don't see this code on that page either, should I assume she changed something here?

    If they are other details about what they were doing immediately before they land here, or if this code is conditional in any way, then I retract my answer and would need to review it again with all the facts. But as you've reported it, it's classic, simple cookie stuffing.

    Some definitions:
    http://www.affiliatefairplay.com/cookie_stuffing.html
    http://www.benedelman.org/cookiestuffing/

  5. #5
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    The page you linked did not open a new window for me either.
    If it did, then it is likely cookie stuffing.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Yes, the pop-up disabled after this thread:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=92693

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    It is not really disabled, Nate is in the process of making some changes so it will not pop when people come from search engines.

  8. #8
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    That will still be cookie stuffing. I think you are setting a bad trend, IMO.
    Most PPC engines (Adwords, Yahoo SEM) do not like landing pages with pop-ups, either.
    And most SEs will soon not like or already do not like sites with pop-ups.

    And there is a reason for that .. the visitors do not like it, either.

    Not sure, why are you taking this approach .. but I think it is a bad trend. Of course, you seem to have a different take on it. It is your choice. Wish you the best in making right decision for the long haul ..

  9. #9
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    She's taking this approach so that she's credited for sales where people use her coupon codes but don't otherwise click through her affiliate link.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    I don't see a cookie stuffing at flamingoworld.com at this time.

  11. #11
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    From ShareAsale

    "click commission" means the Payout the Merchant agrees to pay for a valid click from an Affiliate Partner's site to the Merchant's site that results in the Merchant's Web site being viewable to the Visitor. A click is deemed valid when it meets certain criteria as defined on the Web site or in this agreement, which criteria may change from time to time.
    It is not really disabled, Nate is in the process of making some changes so it will not pop when people come from search engines.
    The definition of a click isn't well defined above, but several things stand out in my mind.
    1. The definition of a click applies to every affiliate equally. no exceptions.
    2. The traffic source is not a function of a legitimate click.
    3. You're obligations are contractual to merchants and networks.
    4. Ask yourself if you would pass or fail a strict network quality audit (What you think is right or wrong doesn't count during an audit).
    Last edited by mr_jones; July 27th, 2007 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Changed "everyone" to "every affiliate"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman
    She's taking this approach so that she's credited for sales where people use her coupon codes but don't otherwise click through her affiliate link.
    How does she know, that people are using her coupons. How does she know that she even has a coupon that is of interest to the visitor.

    Why can't she put a coupon title, coupon description and allow a visitor to click on a coupon code link to view that code. Only when the visitor is SERIOUSLY interested in seeing that code, it is legit to set a cookie.

    The way she is approaching this issue is wrong and plain cookie stuffing, IMO.

    It is definitely a bad trend that is being set IMO by what some view as a person of good reputation here at ABW, until now.

  13. #13
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    Someone wrote: > "Only when the visitor is SERIOUSLY interested in seeing that code, it is legit to set a cookie." <

    No, no, no.

    The sole measure of "seriousness" that justifies setting a cookie is when a consumer clicks on a link to go to the merchant's site. Period.

    If a pageview is "triggered" from an affiliate site in order to set a cookie, either when the consumer has not chosen to click a link to the merchant's site, or when the consumer will not actually see the merchant's page, it is improper "cookie-stuffing," in my opinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals
    How does she know, that people are using her coupons. How does she know that she even has a coupon that is of interest to the visitor.
    One way is by seeing her exclusive coupons appear on other sites. The issue of stealing exclusive coupons is well documented.

  15. #15
    Full Member Code Monkey's Avatar
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    Simple cookie stuffing..
    FlamingoWorld is one of the worst when it comes to cookie stuffing. Sites like this should not be allowed to continue. It's a shame that the affiliate marketing community can't better police itself and not allow unethical affiliates (edited) like this to be among the ranks.

    Edit: Connie, my original wording in this post was too harsh. I apologize to you for that. I do, however, still contend that the methods you employ on your website would and should be frowned on by the affiliate community.
    Last edited by Code Monkey; July 27th, 2007 at 09:27 PM.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    FlamingoWorld is one of the worst when it comes to cookie stuffing. Sites like this should not be allowed to continue. It's a shame that the affiliate marketing community can't better police itself and not allow crooks like this to be among the ranks.
    Shut up. You dont know me or my site. I am one of the worst. ha
    I can see from your 3 posts here that you would know that.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Vrindavan's Avatar
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    >> The sole measure of "seriousness" that justifies setting a cookie is when a consumer clicks on a link to go to the merchant's site. Period.


    i agree 100%. The strict definition should be this.

    But now there are different degree of variation on allowances to what is an exception among affiliates or ??
    And they also come up with many "good" reasons why they are not "being unfair" to set cookie.

    In some UK networks, there is a thing called "impression cookie", commission tracking after there is a banner impression.

    i once received an email from a merchant,
    it reminded the affiliates to set cookie on the webpage that showcases coupon codes. However, i forget which merchant the email comes from.

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    No name calling, Bans will be issued.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    FlamingoWorld is one of the worst when it comes to cookie stuffing. Sites like this should not be allowed to continue. It's a shame that the affiliate marketing community can't better police itself and not allow unethical affiliates crooks like this to be among the ranks.
    Thanks for your contributions to ABW...not

    If a test failed & caused some problems, do you crucify the person and sling words like "unethical" and "crooks" at the person? Did you know that FlamingoWorld is addressing the problem and I can hardly put the word "crook" and FlamingoWorld in the same sentence?

  20. #20
    Full Member Code Monkey's Avatar
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    I agree..
    I agree. 'Crook' was much too harsh of a word. I have since edited that original post and apologize to Connie.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code Monkey
    I agree. 'Crook' was much too harsh of a word. I have since edited that original post and apologize to Connie.
    I would have reacted to your post just as Connie did. Even your edited post is way out of bounds for a newcomer here. If your allegations were true, they certainly would have been said before by longstanding members. If you are going to make such a serious allegation against someone, provide facts. You have no credibility.

  22. #22
    Internet Cowboy
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    All I can think of here is that we all know Connie's name, her site and many other things about her. She made a decision, the wrong one (in my opinion and many others) and has backed off. She is above board and in the open about everything she does. She is very forthcoming with information that other affiliates seem to want to keep secret. She is a classy person and has a heart as big as Texas.

    Those of you who seem to get off on bashing her, would you please post your real name and the URL of your sites so we can make sure you are completely above board?

    To those of you who started out at ABW FORUM SPAMMER, you know what they say about glass houses.


  23. #23
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    She is above board and in the open about everything she does. She is very forthcoming with information that other affiliates seem to want to keep secret. She is a classy person and has a heart as big as Texas.

    Those of you who seem to get off on bashing her, would you please post your real name and the URL of your sites so we can make sure you are completely above board? To those of you who started out at ABW FORUM SPAMMER, you know what they say about glass houses.
    Well said Scooter - although I'm not necessarily sold on Texas being used as an example of how big a heart can be. If you recall, Coley (from Texas) scored a 12 pack of RB in Miami and knowing I had none, never so much as offered me one.

    Enjoy the rest of your visit with Mom. I expect to see you back at it bright and early Monday morning!!
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    This is for Donuts and UncleScooter, who claim that Connie, by putting her name and her site publicly, somewhat better, more open or deserves more credit than the people who're "hiding behind usernames".

    - Everybody is entitled to their privacy. Nobody asked Connie to reveal her name or her site. She did that willingly. Just because someone likes to keep their privacy doesn't mean that they are doing dirt behind the curtains. They just like it that way.

    - Not everyone remembers this but when there were heated arguments about parasiteware a few years back, some posters who were open about their identity here at ABW, did get visits from parasiteware "investigators". So, excuse people for wanting to protect their indentities, families etc.

    - Frankly, it has been very good for Connie to reveal her name and her site on ABW. It raised her profile, be known by more potential customers and merchants, which in turn helps her get better deals, exclusive coupons, etc. Raised profile comes with higher scrutiny, that's true for any industry.

    So, no, I don't believe that she deserves a softer treatment for something bad she did, because she is in the open. Or that everyone else who prefers to keep their information private are 'probably' on the bad side of the business.

  25. #25
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    SamBay, you inferred she was not honest and open.

    I posted about her and specifically addressed both open and honest.

    Now you'd like to accuse me of softer treatment.

    Please retract your comment about her not being open - you were wrong - this is not debatable (because the facts are so obvious and clear) no matter what the reason for others using an alias here (as I choose to do). She is open. Period.

    If you want to debate the honest part, we can discuss that further too, though I already have. Cookie stuffing is wrong. She was wrong to do it, try it, test it. I've said that and challenged her here asking if her justification, to collect data, was even a serious reply. However, other than this one instance, I know of nothing else she's ever done that's even close to not be completely honest. As she is being challenged and attacked here by her peers, she's continuing to reply to questions and discussing what's she's doing - doesn't make it right, but she's definitely open about it.

    So I think you need to aim your insults better, that's all. Openness was a cheap shot and it's off base and you know it - now you're compounding that by claiming her openness is something she's done for her own financial gains. How can you say that, when, at the same time, you say she's not open.

    If you'd like to say she is being dishonest / wrong / misguided / non-compliant for cookie stuffing, I've already said as much.

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