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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    January 18th, 2005
    Based on the posts here of the last 24 hours, I think we have enough evidence to file a missing persons report with the FBI.

    It's obvious the real Haiko has been kidnapped and is being held against his will by terrorists and they've slipped in a straw-man to take his place.

    Okay, Kidnappers, so what are your demands? How much ransome do you want to release the real Haiko?

    We'll paypal you the money. Just let him go unharmed. - Turns your search box into money.

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    New York

    This plan is the only real solution to the lack of action of the networks.

    I'm sorry if it offends members but it is real and secure, this I guarantee!

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    To the person pretending to be Haiko:

    True enough, most networks have done nothing of substance. But your solution to give the farm to the people who invented the problem is worse than the networks doing nothing.

    Ah HA! I get it! eBates has kidnapped Haiko, and the ransom is the list of our urls! After which, they will release him. Haiko will then tell the horror story of being kept in a meat locker in New Jersey, but by then, it'll be too late. The kidnappers will have the ransome list and we'll all be held captive.

    BTW, to the person pretending to be Haiko, you never did answer the dozens of very credible questions regarding your claims on the other threads. - Turns your search box into money.

    [This message was edited by AffJus on January 21, 2003 at 01:38 AM.]

  4. #4
    Full Member
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    January 18th, 2005


    This plan may be the only alternative on the board, but it is not a real solution. As presented, it has no real integrity.

    Yes it does offend many of us and is not in any way secure. Just using the term that the list will be encrypted and handed over to ebates is enough to circumvent the encryption. Their very statement that they will look at the list and make a determination who is valid and who is not tells you that encrypting the list means nothing as they will be decrypting it to suit their plan of honoring the listed affiliates or not.

    Please wake up out of this nightmare before it goes too far. People here on ABW have had a lot of faith and trust in you and what you have been doing in the past to help the affiliate world fight these scum. Don't betray that trust now.

    BTW, you or no one else can guarantee this list can work. There are too many variables that can scuttle it.

    By the very posts on this board, it appears that a number of ABWers are making good money in spite of ebates, Whenu and other parasites.

    Unless they are lying, there is no need for them to rush into this poorly designed list solution. ebates is trying to stall off any possible repercussions from ongoing lawsuits against other parasites.


  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    January 18th, 2005
    Everyhting TCS said!

    While I was mad and has posted a lot posts, translation of what those post meant is what TCS said. Thank you, TCS.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
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    January 18th, 2005

    I think you are giving up a bit too early.

    The whole rebate fed super affiliate thing is only be a shorted lived problem.

    Soon rebate driven web sites will be a simple matter of cut and paste code. The market will divide and destroy the super affiliates.

    Why give up on the free market, when it has such a good track record?

    A well defined set of best practices will get the market further than any compromise. Who really cares about the networks? They were power plays from the start. They are all consuming themselves and don't know what to do about it.

    BeFree was the worst of the networks, and look, their customer base is shrinking each month.

    If we have a well defined set of principles and judge the programs on those principles, then one by one the problems will fall away.

    It doesn't take unification behind any proposal. All we have to do is define best practices and the market take care of itself.

    There probably is the need of a legal authority such at the FTC to judge some of the worst abuses. This will be easier if we have best practices in place.

    It really doesn't matter what we resolve this year. If we focus on the long term, we can make something that is sustainable through the long term without compromise.

    I know this sound strange, but the two most valuable assets of the affiliate market are disunity coupled with a sense of ethics and fair play.

    These are the same foundations of the free market, and look what the free market accomplishes!!!!

    This is simply how the free market works.

    Our crisis right now is the result of an Stock market bubble which funded efforts to corner the Internet market. Well, the bubble burst, most the dot com superplays went down in flames.

    Things have been improving since. Why compromise with an enemy that will soon collapse under its own weight. The only thing your compromise might accomplish is prolonging its death.

  7. #7
    Full Member
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    January 18th, 2005
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm sorry if it offends members but it is real and secure, this I guarantee!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am sure you have the best of intentions Haiko, but there is no individual in this world who can guarantee the security of that information.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Thank you Affjus for stating what Haiko just does not understand.

    Just because he has spent time on the issue and is now working (conspiring) with ebates he views it as a positive step. He does not get the fact that for some folks doing absoluty nothing but keeping their mouths shut is the most they can contribute without doing more harm than good.

    What bothers me the most though, is how Haiko is contradiciting what Ebates have themselves said. Ebates says 1 or 2 thousand, Haiko says he can deliver 500,000 in 10 days and ebates would appreciate that.(btw 500,000 divided by 240 hours is over 2000 an hour) ebates says THEY will verify that real persons with real issues are on the list, Haiko says he will do this verifying. When questioned the non response was to the affect of "a spider maybe".

    So first he was going to verify 500,000 in 10 days, now he is going to use a spider(maybe), if a spider is used this means our URLS will be put on the list without our consent, if no spider is used than it is a flatout lie that he can produce 500,000. It does not matter, whatever it takes to make Haiko look big and important...just feed the ego please!

    I do not trust Ebates, I do not trust those that are accomplices or conspirators to ebates theft. Haiko placed himself in this category.

    To those that realize Haikos interests lie in his ego and not in what is best for affiliates, please send me private message with an email(throw away email is fine), I will not respond thru the abw pm system

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    January 18th, 2005
    Well I for one won't give up the urls.

    I can see Haiko's idea working for those who are already targeted from ebates such as Connie Berg, and other "Coupon orientated sites". These people have nothing to loose and any less parasites on their sites the better.

    But look what happened since this "Whole issue came up on parasites. When U and Ebates have been targeting affiliate sites, particular one's that they have figured out who has "high traffic".

    I don't have any "high traffic sites " but If I were to give up my urls there is no guarantee that they wouldn't pounce on it in the future, so they don't know who I am right now, and the less they know about me the better.

    Spider theory? Well lets face it...If Ebates wanted to target 50, 000 affiliate sites, them investing in a spider to do so, would have been done already, or are already considering this. IF they want to target more affiliate sites, they will do so. They will do what ever they please, regardless of what we affiliates want or Haiko wants.

    Its obvious who gets what they want. And They win hand downs.

    But there is hope. Look at Amazon. They cleaned them out. They weren't worth anything to Amazon after a while. These parasite loving merchants will eventually see the light....maybe a few years down the road, but they will. Management changes, managers change etc.

    "Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open." Thomas Dewar

  10. #10
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    The Swamp
    I have asked this question before and no one will answer. I will ask it again. People keep saying that if ebates has a list of affiliate domains, they fear ebates will target their sites. With the way in which ebates functions, please explain how ebates can target an affiliate site! Yes, whenu can target sites and they do. But ebates and whenu operate totally different! Yes, they both feed off other sites, but in completely and totally different ways. Could topmoxie decide to completely change the way in which their software operates. Sure, that's a possibilitly I suppose. Almost anything is a possibility. Google toolbar could become parasitic too I suppose.

    Everyone keeps making these claims of targeting by ebates if they have an exclusion list. If you are going to make the claim, then back it up with explaining exactly how an affiliate site will be targeted. Connie's site was not targeted by ebates! That is completely false information! Connie's site was included specifically in the WhenU database. We are not talking about WhenU here, we are talking about topmoxie applications.

    Someone please send me a screenshot of a topmoxie application popping up on an affiliate's website. Someone show me the evidence of topmoxie redirecting directly on an affilate's site.

    If you are opposed to the exclusion list, fine. But lets see debate and discussion based off of factual information.

    As a side note as far as ebates knowing your url's. I suggest doing a bit of research along the lines of the true/factual sequence of events of what is happening when ebates redirects a link from your site as far as http calls and do a bit of reading about the http referrer information passed between servers (you know those things that show on your logs saying where your visitor came from). When that's done, let me know if you think that ebates may or may not already be receiving information about your domain.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    January 18th, 2005
    Quote: Connie's site was not targeted by ebates! That is completely false information! Connie's site was included specifically in the WhenU database. We are not talking about WhenU here, we are talking about topmoxie applications.

    Sorry My mistake. I had the wrong parasite.

    "Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open." Thomas Dewar

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