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  1. #1
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    Kowabunga, Kolimbo, Think Partnership Spam
    I just got off the phone with Greg Hoffman at Kowabunga, and was shocked at his response to my request to be removed from Kowabunga's and Think Partnership's email lists.

    "We can send you email when we want to."

    He did promise to "see what I can do," but essentially stated that so long as I remain an affiliate of a single merchant using Kowabunga technoogy, it would not be possible to stop emails from Kowabunga. (Note that I have no objection to emails from the merchant, which is closing its Kowabunga affiliate program soon, but I am sick and tired of Kowabunga spam, including recruitment emails.)

    The company has an "opt-out" link which loads a web page verifying my removal from the recruitment list -- I've done this at least three times. Each time, I am somehow restored onto that list, and there is apparently nothing I can do to stop Kowabunga from spamming me.

    By the way, the email I received was "signed" by one Kowabunga employee (Lisa), but her name was a hyperlink to a different Kowabunga employee (Brad). This email came from "optinpro.com" which is a domain owned and controlled by Kowabunga; I'll go ahead and add "optinpro.com" to my spam-filter list.
    Last edited by markwelch; August 21st, 2007 at 02:43 PM.

  2. #2
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Mark,

    Thank you very much for sharing this insight with us.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  3. #3
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch
    I just got off the phone with Greg Hoffman at Kowabunga, and was shocked at his response to my request to be removed from Kowabunga's and Think Partnership's email lists.

    "We can send you email when we want to."

    He did promise to "see what I can do," but essentially stated that so long as I remain an affiliate of a single merchant using Kowabunga technoogy, it would not be possible to stop emails from Kowabunga. (Note that I have no objection to emails from the merchant, which is closing its Kowabunga affiliate program soon, but I am sick and tired of Kowabunga spam, including recruitment emails.)

    The company has an "opt-out" link which loads a web page verifying my removal from the recruitment list -- I've done this at least three times. Each time, I am somehow restored onto that list, and there is apparently nothing I can do to stop Kowabunga from spamming me.

    By the way, the email I received was "signed" by one Kowabunga employee (Lisa), but her name was a hyperlink to a different Kowabunga employee (Brad). This email came from "optinpro.com" which is a domain owned and controlled by Kowabunga; I'll go ahead and add "optinpro.com" to my spam-filter list.
    This fellow Hoffman better have a word with their legal department - Can-Spam Act of 2003:
    (4) PROHIBITION OF TRANSMISSION OF COMMERCIAL ELECTRONIC MAIL AFTER OBJECTION-
    (A) IN GENERAL- If a recipient makes a request using a mechanism provided pursuant to paragraph (3) not to receive some or any commercial electronic mail messages from such sender, then it is unlawful--
    (i) for the sender to initiate the transmission to the recipient, more than 10 business days after the receipt of such request, of a commercial electronic mail message that falls within the scope of the request;
    (ii) for any person acting on behalf of the sender to initiate the transmission to the recipient, more than 10 business days after the receipt of such request, of a commercial electronic mail message with actual knowledge, or knowledge fairly implied on the basis of objective circumstances, that such message falls within the scope of the request;
    (iii) for any person acting on behalf of the sender to assist in initiating the transmission to the recipient, through the provision or selection of addresses to which the message will be sent, of a commercial electronic mail message with actual knowledge, or knowledge fairly implied on the basis of objective circumstances, that such message would violate clause (i) or (ii); or
    (iv) for the sender, or any other person who knows that the recipient has made such a request, to sell, lease, exchange, or otherwise transfer or release the electronic mail address of the recipient (including through any transaction or other transfer involving mailing lists bearing the electronic mail address of the recipient) for any purpose other than compliance with this Act or other provision of law.
    Civil penalties alone for such violations can reach a maximum of $6 MILLION. (SEC. 7. ENFORCEMENT GENERALLY. (f) Enforcement by States (3) Statutory damages)
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
    "Raj, there’s no place for truth on the internet." -Howard Wolowitz[/SIZE]

  4. #4
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    Might as well throw in Second Bite too. I tested it out for myself, filling out information, never hitting submit and now I get spam. Not only from that original merchant but 3 others. Brand new email account. Opened up another email account to make doubly sure.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    Exactly, they are a company that has proven they could care less about people complaining about spam. And if they are so openly stupid about such an obvious thing, why should I trust them with anything else. I will never promote a Kowabunga merchant and would suggest any affiliate thinking about it should look deep about that company and understand how they treat affiliates and think again.

  6. #6
    What's the word? Rhia7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chetf
    Exactly, they are a company that has proven they could care less about people complaining about spam. And if they are so openly stupid about such an obvious thing, why should I trust them with anything else. I will never promote a Kowabunga merchant and would suggest any affiliate thinking about it should look deep about that company and understand how they treat affiliates and think again.
    I sure wish you had said that when I was a newbie
    I joined Kowabunga (after joining ABW) mainly because I wanted to join a specific cosmetics company. I was turned down by the specific company

    I was disappointed in the other programs. I might still be on their books but I don't use Kowabunga.
    ~Rhia7 -- Remember the 7
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  7. #7
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    I know there is a generally feeling of dislike toward Kowabunga & MyAffiliateProgram, but we've been evaluating MyAP9 along with SAS. I raised the question to the sales rep re: affiliates being sent emails from Kowabunga / being unable to unsubscribe. After talking to the rep on the phone, I sent a few follow up questions by email to get things in writing. If anyone is interested, below are the questions / answers.

    There have also been a lot of posts about Kolimbo being unresponsive to calls / emails. So far, I'm actually pretty happy with the sales rep I've been dealing with (though I realize I still am in the "sales" mode).

    Hope some of this might be interesting for those people trying to stop getting Kolimbo emails!

    - - - - -

    QUESTION #1: You told me if an affiliate is NOT currently a member of Kolimbo and they sign up for our program (if we were using MyAP) then they have the CHOICE of either joining the Kolimbo network or not joining. If they don't join then they'll NEVER get contacted by Kolimbo directly.

    ANSWER: This is correct, if an affiliate joins your program and opts to not join the Kolimbo network, they would not be contacted with our Kolimbo announcements, or recruitment mailers sent by our team to affiliates within the network.

    - - - - -

    QUESTION #2: If someone is ALREADY a member of Kolimbo, you said they can remove themselves from all Kolimbo emails and opt out by going to the Kolimbo My Details page once they log in and unchecking all of the options in the "email / newsletter" section. By doing that, they'll never rec'v emails from Kolimbo directly.

    ANSWER: That's also correct. An affiliate can choose not to receive these mailers this way, OR they can simply unsubscribe using the link we include on every email we send out. I spoke with a few folks over here, and it looks like the mailer in questions from the ABestWeb post was inadvertantely sent without scrubbing the list against the suppression file we have. This will not be an issue moving forward.

  8. #8
    Full Member ske9963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia7
    I joined Kowabunga (after joining ABW) mainly because I wanted to join a specific cosmetics company. I was turned down by the specific company
    Look up ELF cosmetics on LS. I do pretty well with them.
    Ma, where the beer? :escape:

  9. #9
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    I'm actually in awe of this company's incompetence.

    I received an email from Greg Hoffman, as well as a very apologetic phone call from the person whose name appeared in the earlier spam; both promised that they would do whatever they could to make sure I was removed from any Kowabunga/Kolimbo lists.

    I just received another spam, this one promoting a "cubby" web site, addressed to the SAME email address which they'd promised to remove.
    Last edited by markwelch; August 24th, 2007 at 06:43 PM.

  10. #10
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    What NOT to do as an affiliate manager
    OK, the "cubby" spam wasn't the only one today from Kowabunga.

    I just received the following email; I've omitted most headers, except the four lines shown in the quote. (Yes, the return address WAS incorrectly formatted; I've removed the actual account from the email address.)

    From: "<Advanced Intelligence" <**** (at) ksc9.th.com> [sic]
    Subject: Increasing Affiliate Commissions
    X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87/4052/Fri Aug 24 09:47:56 2007 on eng1.kowabunga.net
    Received: from unknown [66.192.131.253] (EHLO mail5.kowabunga.net)

    Dear Affiliates,

    We have decided to offer a higher percentage of commission per sale as follows.

    Type 1 Affiliate (Affiliate who make a monthly sale from US$ 1 to US$ 10,000) will earn commission of 12% of total sales*)
    Type 2 Affiliate (Affiliate who make a monthly sale from US$ 10,001 to US$ 20,000) will earn commission of 17% of total sales*)
    Type 3 Affiliate (Affiliate who make a monthly sale from US$ 20,001 to US$ 30,000) will earn commission of 22% of total sales*)
    Type 4 Affiliate (Affiliate who make a monthly sale from US$ 30,001 or above) will earn commission of 27% of total sales*)

    We will put all affiliates in to their appropriate type effective as of now.

    If sales of an affiliate should increase to a new range i.e. from a monthly sale of US$ 8000 to a monthly sale of US$10,500 the affiliate will automatically be moved from a Type 1 to a Type 2 affiliate.

    If sales of an affiliate should decrease to a new range i.e. from a monthly sale of US$ 14,000 to a monthly sale of US$ 9,800 the affiliate will automatically be moved from a Type 2 to a Type 1 affiliate.

    ==================================================
    Tips on how to achieve a higher commission.
    ==================================================

    1. Make our ads as attractive as possible, make us the first website on the page will help a lot.
    2. The more of our products you advertise, the more total sales you will get.
    3. Other websites that you are promoting on your website that does not sell can distract customers from entering our website; eliminate any website that can be distracting.
    4. Eliminate websites that offers the same type of goods at a much lower price which will give out less commission to you.

    Most of our Type 4 affiliate follows the above guide lines and sell our products like hot cakes. We are sure you can too.

    We are sure you will like our new commission rates.

    These rates can be change without notice.

    Good Luck

    Best Regards

    Advanced Intelligence Affiliate Team

    *(Total sales means total sales of the same affiliate ID number, in other words the sales of two affiliate ID number can not be combine)
    I won't spend much time shooting the fish in this barrel: there is no hint as to what company's affiliate program is involved, and only the headers show that the email came through Kowabunga's servers. (As noted above, I retain a relationship with only ONE Kowabunga merchant, and I'm quite confident this wasn't sent to promote them.) This is spam, but it also displays a level of incompetence that really demands respect.
    Last edited by markwelch; August 24th, 2007 at 06:46 PM.

  11. #11
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    I get emails that I delete every day from those companies too!!! hehe

  12. #12
    Outsourced Program Manager John Jupp's Avatar
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    Mark

    I got the same email about that merchant.

    Their website is a dog's breakfast. They provide banner or text links and as for deep linking I wouldn't want to send anyone there anyway even though I do display a handful of their banners.

    They don't bother with a datafeed. Also I've never been happy that MyAP actually bothers to ensure their tracking software actually works. I sent an art merchant over 3,000 visitors using their embedded text links and deeplink options plus content units. Result - Zero conversions. So apart from the one merchant you mentioned I don't touch MyAP etc at all.

    I have an alternative security/surveillance merchant based near Harrods in London (in the heart of Knightsbridge) which is a far better merchant (but difficult to convert). They advertise on Affiliate Future and ClixGalore and pay 5% (if you get it to convert).
    Flambi Media Limited - USA/UK/EU Affiliate Management Expertise

  13. #13
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    And today I received yet another email through Kowabunga's servers, this one alerting me to yet another merchant's move from MyAP to SAS (this time, the Bowling Shirt folks, whom I assume had no control over who would receive their email sent through Kowabunga's system). I hadn't been a member of that affiliate program for a long time, and of course as noted here, I've asked again and again and again to be removed from Kowabunga's mailing lists, but they just won't do it.

  14. #14
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    And today I received yet another email through Kowabunga's servers (this time, from ClearPlay, whom I assume had no control over who would receive their email sent through Kowabunga's system). I hadn't been a member of that affiliate program for a long time, and of course as noted here, I've asked again and again and again to be removed from Kowabunga's mailing lists, but they just won't do it. Like the last few spams, this arrived right around 5pm (Florida time) on a Friday afternoon.

    I called and spoke with Greg Hoffman, who argued that they didn't send it, but instead the folks at ClearPlay had sent it, believing that I was still their affiliate, which Mr. Hoffman argued wasn't something Kowabunga could control. Mr. Hoffman's claim is absurd: the email was sent through Kowabunga's mail servers, using the data that Kowabunga maintains for its merchants. Despite my many requests to be removed from all Kowabunga affiliate programs except one, and despite Kowabunga's promises to remove me, Kowabunga just keeps these spams coming.

    Ironically, this spam arrived just a few days after I convinced another merchant NOT sign up with Kowabunga for their new affiliate program, but to instead use a different affiliate technology provider. This experience today re-affirms my belief that no ethical company should do business with Kowabunga, and companies that use Kowabunga/MyAP should move as quickly as possible to an ethical, honest solution provider.

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Hoffman is a boof and half - http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...0&page=2&pp=25 see post #39 on.

    When I was at ad:tech last week I asked for him so I could express my extreme displeasure with him but since he wasn't in attendance in the TP booth they had to take my not so kind message and card.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Jeff Doak works at Converseon now, that Elvis expression comes to my mind...

    Ethics has left the building.

  17. #17
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    Hey all. Let me just say in KB's defense that the parent company, THK, has gradually pulled a lot of resources away from KB over the past couple years, making it difficult for the employees there. Many of the people you'll deal with there (including Greg) are doing their best to take care of things with the resources they do have.

    Mark -- your issue is actually something they have trouble fixing because so many of KB's merchants bought the software and run their programs independently, meaning that if you signed up for their program a few years ago, you're probably still sitting in their database and are thus getting emails from the merchant, not from KB. Technically KB isn't even allowed to remove you from those programs because they don't own that relationship, but I think Greg will take care of it anyway.

    I spent 10 years helping build KB and let me just say that it's difficult for me to watch some of the things that are happening. There are still a lot of great people there who are doing their best to save the company, I hope THK gives them the support they need.

  18. #18
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    Jeff -- thanks for the comments. I do think I have a pretty good understanding of what's going on over there -- an aggressively sales-driven parent company attempting to unethically squeeze every available short-term dollar from the acquired subsidiary, alienating every core constituency. I don't know how much they paid for Kowabunga, but Think Partnership's strategy is rapidly destroying the value of the company they bought, and in the process THink Partnership's feeble reputation is being weakened further (I already see some company-name shuffling going on, and I'd expect to see more name changes as their sales staff tries to keep one step ahead of their poor reputation.)

    I'm sure that you feel even worse than I do about Kowagunga's "death spiral," but I've also found it quite sad to see a company that I once "strongly recommended" (to merchant clients and to affiliates) turning into a company that I now urge merchants and affiliates to "avoid like the plague."

    To date, I have not found ANY merchants who wish to stay with Kowabunga as their affiliate solution; every affiliate manager I speak with is just struggling to keep their affiliate program working until they can make the transition to a different solution. I feel especially badly for those merchants who signed contracts recently based on the company's previous reputation, not realizing that they were dealing with an entirely different company now.

    On the email issue, the problem here (as I see it) is that (1) I signed up for these programs through the Kolimbo interface and then followed all steps available in the Kolimbo interface to officially withdraw from each program, so there should not be a separate database that doesn't get updated; and (2) these emails are being routed through Kowabunga's mail servers, not through the individual merchant's mail servers. At the very least, Kowabunga should set up a "suppression list" so that its mail servers don't forward email to people like me who are so upset.

    I don't complain about "direct" emails I get from current and former MyAP merchants whose programs I once joined; it's the email coming through Kowabunga's servers that annoys me, in part because I am pretty confident that Kowabunga is deliberately concealing the flow of affiliates away from Kowabunga. (Here's an interesting thought: if these unethical, dishonest scum were more competent at being evil, they'd probably be more successful.)

  19. #19
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    I completely understand your frustration, Mark, believe me. Just to be clear on the email issue, however -- the kowabunga programs run on kowabunga servers because they are a hosted solution, and when the merchant (who, again, owns the program and the relationship) sends an email through the software it will come through the kowabunga servers. This situation has always, unfortunately, been confusing to affiliates so I understand if it seems like kowabunga would have control over a merchant's affiliates, and those emails. A suppression list would work if the merchant's contract allowed kowabunga to interfere with their program in any way, but it doesn't.

  20. #20
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    As discussed in another thread (http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=97239), my problems with emails from Kowabunga/Think Partnership have apparently ended, as they have manually removed me from every MyAP affiliate program -- including those which Jeff thought they technically and/or contractually could not remove me from.

    They also removed me from the one program that I had intended to continue my relationship with (Calendars dot com), despite my request that they not do so. (In fact, I had repeatedly explained that my continuing relationship with Calendars was the only reason why I hadn't simply added Kowabuga's servers to my blacklist.)

    While I'm sad to end my long-term relationship with Calendars, which has been quite profitable, it is a relief to finally be finished dealing with the scum at Kowabunga/Think Partnership.

  21. #21
    Moderator bibby's Avatar
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    I would have reported them long time ago. As you know SPAM is against the law (CanSpam). Every emil lsit needs to include an opt-out link and if a user does opt-out and they continue receiving emails it's against the law, punishable by beinf fined.

  22. #22
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    I opted out long ago, but this just arrived:

    Dear Think News Subscriber,

    If you are having trouble viewing the latest Think Partnership Newsletter for December 10, 2007, please visit the following link:

    <link to their newsletter> - removed for this post
    No opt out, nothing. That's all there was to the email altogether.

  23. #23
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    Earlier, I wrote that > "[i]Kowabunga/Think Partnership [has] manually removed me from every MyAP affiliate program -- including those which Jeff thought they technically and/or contractually could not remove me from. // They also removed me from the one program that I had intended to continue my relationship with (Calendars dot com), despite my request that they not do so. (In fact, I had repeatedly explained that my continuing relationship with Calendars was the only reason why I hadn't simply added Kowabuga's servers to my blacklist.) // While I'm sad to end my long-term relationship with Calendars, which has been quite profitable, it is a relief to finally be finished dealing with the scum at Kowabunga/Think Partnership.[/]" <

    Surprise: I received another Kowabunga spam today, again routed through the SAME Kowabunga/Kolimbo mail server. Even after purging the one successful relationship I had, they won't stop spamming me. These jokers really don't get it. I had hoped I wouldn't need to set up a server-level mailblock, but clearly they won't give me any other option.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus
    I know there is a generally feeling of dislike toward Kowabunga & MyAffiliateProgram, but we've been evaluating MyAP9 along with SAS. I raised the question to the sales rep re: affiliates being sent emails from Kowabunga / being unable to unsubscribe. After talking to the rep on the phone, I sent a few follow up questions by email to get things in writing. If anyone is interested, below are the questions / answers.

    There have also been a lot of posts about Kolimbo being unresponsive to calls / emails. So far, I'm actually pretty happy with the sales rep I've been dealing with (though I realize I still am in the "sales" mode).

    Hope some of this might be interesting for those people trying to stop getting Kolimbo emails!

    - - - - -

    QUESTION #1: You told me if an affiliate is NOT currently a member of Kolimbo and they sign up for our program (if we were using MyAP) then they have the CHOICE of either joining the Kolimbo network or not joining. If they don't join then they'll NEVER get contacted by Kolimbo directly.

    ANSWER: This is correct, if an affiliate joins your program and opts to not join the Kolimbo network, they would not be contacted with our Kolimbo announcements, or recruitment mailers sent by our team to affiliates within the network.

    - - - - -

    QUESTION #2: If someone is ALREADY a member of Kolimbo, you said they can remove themselves from all Kolimbo emails and opt out by going to the Kolimbo My Details page once they log in and unchecking all of the options in the "email / newsletter" section. By doing that, they'll never rec'v emails from Kolimbo directly.

    ANSWER: That's also correct. An affiliate can choose not to receive these mailers this way, OR they can simply unsubscribe using the link we include on every email we send out. I spoke with a few folks over here, and it looks like the mailer in questions from the ABestWeb post was inadvertantely sent without scrubbing the list against the suppression file we have. This will not be an issue moving forward.
    @Janus: I am in the middle of searching for an inhouse affiliate platform and am considering MyAP 9. I am wondering if you purchased MyAp and if so what are your experiences? If you did not buy MyAp could you explain what were the reasons to not buy MyAp??

  25. #25
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    Amazing: I just received an email, addressed to the email address which I used exclusively to apply for Kowabunga/Kolimbo affiliate programs several years ago. (As I've explained earlier in this thread, I haven't worked with Kowabunga since they fell into their current "death spiral").

    The email came from Superior Labels (dot-com) through a mail server that identified itself as Rubber Stamps (dot-net).

    > "We thoroughly review all application to make sure they are a good fit for our site. Unfortunately your application was rejected." <

    This was not "Kowabunga spam." The email was not routed through Kowabunga's mail servers (else I'd never have seen it), and I trust that Greg Hoffman (formerly employed at Kowabunga) did purge my email address from all Kowabunga's and its clients' data (despite my contrary instructions).

    So I assume that Superior Labels pulled the address from somewhere "beyond Kowabunga's reach," possibly an email archive or a database local to Superior. It's possible that they're just "cleaning out" stale applications; or perhaps this is an automated email triggered by their decision to switch from Kowabunga's platform to the Affiliate Wiz script.

    What's amazing about this is that I've just been rejected from a program that I probably applied for three years ago. While I'm sure there are folks who have "pending applications" with CJ merchants that are older, I'm not aware of any merchant actually bothering to reject an affiliate application that stale.

    I suppose it could be worse: the merchant could have accepted me after three years. ;-)

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