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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    All I've opened this thread to start a Q&A for the exclusion list described in the NY Times article on Jan 20th ( http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/20/te...l?pagewanted=1 ).

    This thread will be moderated, as only real questions will be answered, opinions should be posted in This Thread

    Please refrain from all attacks and lets be productive in our discussions in moving forward.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  2. #2
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    Is'nt this just a licence for ebates and other topmoxie clients to pop up on or overwrite links on any website that is not on the list?

  3. #3
    Web Ho - Design B!tch ~Michelle's Avatar
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    Why does there have to be an exclusion list?

    Why can't there be an inclusion list? That makes more sense.

    ~Michelle

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    "Work to become, not to acquire." -- Confucius

  4. #4
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    Can you supply any specifics on how this came about?

    Who is footing the bill?

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warhead:
    Is'nt this just a licence for ebates and other topmoxie clients to pop up on or overwrite links on any website that is not on the list?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Warhead,

    If we want to look at the list as a negative, then yes it can be construed as such, but that it not the impetus at all.

    The exclusion list is one of a few alternatives to topMoxie programs overwriting your links. Some of the other alternatives include:

    1) Use the affsrc=1 code (not 100%)
    2) Use Framed linkouts (not 100%)
    3) Use the exclusion list

    What the goal of the list is to protect affiliate cookies and sales, while topmoxie programmers and networks come together to resolve the auto redirect issue. I see the list as a real and viable alternative to potentially being overwritten or recoding sites.

    I, as I have said, will make sure that knowledge of the service will be widespread (to protect all from any potential loss), so by definition it will not be a license to overwrite, as you claim, but a solution, of many, from being overwritten on.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Michelle:
    Why does there have to be an exclusion list?

    Why can't there be an inclusion list? That makes more sense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ~Michelle,

    There will be both an optin and opt out list for the the exclusion list so yes, both will be options. Does that answer your q?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  7. #7
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    It seems to me that the best way would be to form some type of petition and forward it to all of the parties involved (Topmoxies, Commission Junction, etc.).

    Now I realize that there will be complaints about the language, but the more we stand as a unified voice the better.

    My question is whether this is logistically possible to do?

    NetSweat.com - The Internet's Fitness Resource
    www.netsweat.com

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbo2002:
    Can you supply any specifics on how this came about?

    Who is footing the bill?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    jimbo2002,

    After speaking with the 3 networks of the COC and seeing nothing really happening, compliance wise, I contacted Paul Nichols [directly] about the overwriting issue and what they were going to do about it. Paul and I had many heated discussions about various stances and after I decided that the exclusion list was potentially the best alternative to protect all, Shawn Schwegman mediated talks with TopMoxie and we came up with a plan that would be in addition to the other alternatives (described above) to protect all from overwriting.

    Who is footing the bill? ... I am, that is why the link to be excluded will be on ABW. Start up programming costs aren't cheap nor are the projected bandwidth bills and as such, Overstock.com has offered to sponsor the list with a $1,000.00 contribution to offset the costs.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    Could you explain the encryption process, and what guarantees, if any, are being provided to ensure that the information in the file is kept confidential?

    Also, what assurances do we have that the contents of the file will be protected from corruption and abuse?

    Who - exactly - will know the contents of the file, and have access to it? Will that same party or parties also maintain the file and keep it up to date?

    Thanks,
    Andy

    AFFILIATE MARKETING STANDARD: The site upon which the initial action to buy occurs is the site the commission is paid to. Period.

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by netsweatcom:
    My question is whether this is logistically possible to do?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    netsweat.com,

    Logistically yes, legally ... will not go there, realistic no.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  11. #11
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    Haiko,
    Do you have an ETA?
    Thanks.

    ----
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    Merchants: Do you realize that some of your affiliates are gaining commission on sales which you have paid for via PPC, offline advertisng, and your targeted mailings?

  12. #12
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    So it appears that ebates have every right to intrude/interfere on the domain that I pay hosting for every month if I don't use any of the three alternatives mentioned.

    How much will it cost to join the list?

  13. #13
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andy:
    Could you explain the encryption process, and what guarantees, if any, are being provided to ensure that the information in the file is kept confidential?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The actual type of encryption I will not post but it is like the UNIX shadow file (where the user passwords are kept). You can pick the encryption method you wish but it all boils down to having a list of words that are verifiable but not decipherable. It's a one-way function. With it you can run the word
    to verify through the function to simply check it against the encrypted word and say "match "or "not".

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also, what assurances do we have that the contents of the file will be protected from corruption and abuse?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The resident DB will reside on our 128bit SSL encrypted site, if it's good enough for banks, I'm sure it's good enough for a list of doms.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Who - exactly - will know the contents of the file, and have access to it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Only me.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Will that same party or parties also maintain the file and keep it up to date?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes and no, the system will be 100% automated (why it is soo expensive) so no one will need to keep it up to date except the users who submit to it.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Monuit:
    Do you have an ETA?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm hopping for Monday

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warhead:
    So it appears that ebates have every right to intrude/interfere on the domain that I pay hosting for every month if I don't use any of the three alternatives mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well that is a network issue and not one for me to address, but any of these three can work, with varied results.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>How much will it cost to join the list?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Free for all affiliates.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  16. #16
    Web Ho - Design B!tch ~Michelle's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haiko:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Michelle:
    Why does there have to be an exclusion list?

    Why can't there be an inclusion list? That makes more sense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ~Michelle,

    There will be both an optin and opt out list for the the exclusion list so yes, both will be options. Does that answer your q?

    &lt;font size="2" face="Verdana"&gt;Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I meant an inclusion list INSTEAD of an exclusion list.

    ~Michelle

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  17. #17
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    How many domains can one affiliate add? [Note some affiliate have thousands of domains]

    What will prevent someone from adding thousands of bogus domains to gummy up the works?

    Is it limited to any type of domains such as .com, .gov, .uk, .cn

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Michelle:
    I meant an inclusion list INSTEAD of an exclusion list.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well if a merchant is affiliated with them, that is your inclusion list no?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


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  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yintercept:
    How many domains can one affiliate add? [Note some affiliate have thousands of domains]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Limitless, however each submission will be verified by email to the reg'ed domain owner for inclusion and scanned for affiliate links prior to inclusion in the encrypted list that would be uploaded.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What will prevent someone from adding thousands of bogus domains to gummy up the works?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    There will be butheads who do this, as such the IPs will be logged and reported to the FBI, for proper action.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Is it limited to any type of domains such as .com, .gov, .uk, .cn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    All domains will be accepted as long as they are verified (described above).

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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  20. #20
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    If I set the cookie in a pevious session but I am not the refferer in the current session I still get my commission stolen?

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Why are you working with parasites, not against them?

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    War,

    With this system your cookies will not be touched and are 100% intact.

  23. #23
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    I assume that there will be a written contract that goes along with joining this service. That is, joining the service would be an agreement to that contract.

    Do you currently have the wording for the contract? If not, do you know who is writing the contract? When will the contract be available for public review?

    Who is the signing authority of the contract? eBates? topMoxie? the Networks?

  24. #24
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    So if I refer a shopper to a merchant and set a cookie and then a few days later the shopper clicks on a link to the merchant from google.com there will be no popup?

    How do you know that topmoxie will never charge a fee to join the list?

    What happened to the legal action that there was so much support for in the "donate a dollar thread"?

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JJJay:
    Why are you working with parasites, not against them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good Q!

    What I am doing with the exclusion list is protecting affiliates cookies and commissions as a solution to the inadequacies of some compliance departments.

    The networks can not realistically drop all the topMoxie programs, so until other reliable solutions are brought forth, I am presenting a method for my affiliate brothers and sisters to Cover their respective buts, sites and cookies.

    Why don't people see what is really being offered here? It is a solution (amongst a few others) that will protect cookies and commissions, compliance and other issues relating to parasitic activity should be directed at the networks.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
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