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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    ( Haiko, plesae delete if your find this is in violation of the TOS but I see discussion of other news events here... )


    ALL,

    I have just completed watching the c-span re-run of Colin Powell's address to the UN regarding Iraq.

    The presentation was, in my opinion, forceful and prevocative but not a totally convincing platform for war.

    I think we need to try to use all the resources of the US to try to resolve this issue in peace before rushing into war.

    Doc



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  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    I agree..

    iucpxleps. <= please spell this, it's the meaning of life.

  3. #3
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    The economy is not good now, just wait until the war starts and after. I don't like it.
    Anyway, they should have finished the war the first time and now we wouldn't have this discussion.

    Gabe
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  4. #4
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I'm just torn. On the one hand, I think Saddam is dangerous, on the other, I just hate to think of the casualties that are about to occur within a few brief weeks. I just wish there was a way out of this that did not involve shooting. If we wait, though, the suggestion is we risk having a dirty bomb plopped onto our laps. Just not much of a choice.

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  5. #5
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    ...and we know how the war will affect business.

    no one will surf/shop much while watching war 24/7 on fox/cnn.

    you'd think every webmaster would pray for peace (unless you work for fox/cnn).

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    Well,

    Judging from the president's speech today, it is a done deal.

    And, this afternoon, the 1st airborne has been mobilized with 240 helicopters.

    Sounds like they are done talking about it.

    Saddam will have nothing to lose... that is the worst part. I think he can and will do anything to save himself and cause as much damage to every living thing, the environment and the planet as he can.

    So, heeeeeere we go....

    Doc



    "There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
    - W C Fields (Tille and Gus)

  7. #7
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    My opinion is:
    No one wants war, and it should be avoied at all costs, but some people just can't be reasoned with. I believe the war is justified, and I support the decision, but I hate to see Americans get killed. That is what I don't like. It is only a matter of time, however. The truth is that sometimes war is the only solution before it is too late.

    As they say... "The price of freedom isn't cheap" . I hope we don't have to go to war with North Korea, and I believe that we will be more reluctant to do so.

    That's what I have to say.

    God Bless our troops defending our freedom.

  8. #8
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    Amen, Big Country. My thoughts exactly.

    I don't see how Saddam is any different from Hitler and we all know that if we could have stopped him sooner, we would have been justified.

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  9. #9
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    Unfortunately, it looks like war is just around the corner, unless Saddams men can find their balls quick enough to exile Saddam .

    I do feel a deep, yet premature sadness for all the mom's that are going to lose their son's and all the families that will cry rivers for lost loved ones , but realisticaly , it just has to be done, and no other country is brave enough to do it , so that leaves us .

    It "always" seems that the burden of world peace is " up to US". Kind of ironic isn't it that a our nation's initials are US ?

    It's always US . It's comforting to know that Britain speaks the same language , in more ways than one.

    Does anyone recall Saddam Hussein many years ago, AFTER the Gulf War, being quoted on a TV news cast as saying something like :

    "One day soon... the plans were set , that he was going to do something so horrible, and so horrendous to the US , while the whole world was going to watch ?

    Well, I do remember , because it haunted me for a while , then years passed - nothing to worry about , right ? Until the day of Sept. 11th , 2001 .

    I shutter to think WHAT IF 9/11 wasn't that horrendous day he was talking about, and that day yet to come is going to be worse ?

    This isn't about the weapons inspections, we all know that . It's about putting an end to a madman that threatens world peace and replacing the Iraqi government with a democratic society . The special office to do has already been formed.

    As far as how online shopping will fare , I wouldn't be at all surprized if online sales INCREASED . We're dealing now with terrorists
    on our streets , ready to blow themselves up just to take out a few of us at a time . Anyone, anywhere is a potential victim.

    I think I'll shop online too when the war breaks loose , and go out in public on an as needed basis . I don't think I'll be galavanting the malls or especially hanging out at any bus stops , that's for darn sure .

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Are you certain...I mean are you absolutely certain that we have reason to drop 800 missiles on Iraq in first 48 hours?
    Are you sure we are totally right and that we need to be willing to use nukes on Iraq?

    Are you positive that there is no other way? Can you sleep OK at night knowing that you are supporting the right and only solution?

    Do you feel that the shreiks of the Iraq torn and dying, the tears of their mothers with no doubt must happen?

    Will your brothers friends and neighbors give their lives for a war that had no alternative? Are so really sure about this?

    And are our leaders doing this for only just cause? Do they enter into this butchery with clean hands and pure hearts? Are they free from any personal benefit? Are you absolutely certain?

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on February 06, 2003 at 08:17 PM.]

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    Here is my opinion ,FWIW:

    This war will be big. Not a world war by current definition but a world war none the less.

    Saddam will not go quietly. He has nothing to lose. Dead, Saddam will become a martyr,: alive, Sadddam will be the instigator. The US and its allies will not find all the weapons. The US and its allies will be a target of aggression by the hands of numerous terrorist factions for twenty years to come .

    I fear many will die. And perhaps you and I.



    "There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
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  12. #12
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    SSanf,

    The answer to all of the above is yes. Saddam has given us no choice. Do we wait until he uses chemical weapons? Oh wait. He already did that on the Kurds. Do we wait until he makes a strike on America? Oh wait, he did that too when he tried to have a former US president assassinated.

    Again, I ask, how is this man not a modern-day Hitler? How can we sleep at night knowing this butcher is still in power?

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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Pray for us all, I fear the worst yet still hope for a peaceful resolution.

    Now North Korea is poking sticks at us...

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Again, I ask, how is this man not a modern-day Hitler? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No! Just a Hitler wanna be. Not a very good one at that.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  15. #15
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    SSanf, I didn't ask a yes or no question.

    I asked: How is he different?
    You replied: No.

    Doesn't make much sense....

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  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thank God GWB doesn't take advice from those willing to accept 9/11 and excuse those who were behind it. Our freedoms might be taken for granted but you can bet the price of true freedom is the currency of those willing to die to preserve it. So GWB has no time to get detoured by his promise and commitment to never allow another 9/11 to occur in out life times by those who never would put themselves in harms way. He also has no patience for those harboring terrorists and knows if an Arabs lips move they are lying if addressing an infidel.

    The game is on and our only recourse is to make sure it gets our total support and we kill off enough of the enemy so quickly the rest toe the mark for the next hundred years. It is inevitable we or Israel take out Syria and hope our troops get out of the area before India is forced to Nuke Pakistan to end the Islamic terrorism movement.

    North Korea being the sneaky communistic thugs they are will require some swift B1 & B2 stealth bombing runs to take out their entire nuke building plants. I'd prefer we back off or withdraw our troops in South Korea and force those ingrates to defend themselves. Result would be a plea by them for us to Nuke the North into the dark ages to save their butts.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    Naw Mike,

    I don't see Korea as a threat. The Clinton administration used to send them money. GWB cut off the gravy so they are just making noise to get back into the federal budget.

    Doc



    "There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
    - W C Fields (Tille and Gus)

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    Doc, North Korea scares the wits out of me, the people are eating bark off what trees are left, and they got nothing to lose...besides, they're a hop, skip and a jump from us

    We used to send them money too!

    "I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 reasons why it doesn't work"
    Thomas Edison

  19. #19
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    Sadly but true, everyone scares the wits out of me lately. You can't trust anyone anymore .

    China, Korea, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan , even GERMANY, France , and Italy is bugging me out .

    What's REALLY up with that euro dollar the GERMANS seem to like so much anyway ? It makes no sense at all, unless there is some sort of secret political agenda behind it .

    I don't even trust the UN anymore . It's like the "European N" .

    Okay... that's enough from me , I'm babbling now

    I'll leave you all to debate the original topic .

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Anyway, they should have finished the war the first time and now we wouldn't have this discussion.~Gabe <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Exactly!!! I cringed for years at how we dropped the ball back then.

    On the other hand, I think GWB has a lot of motivation to "finish what Daddy started." Whether this is strategically preferable is another matter.

    There's been a lot of propaganda (which I've been ignoring) about Iraq, but personally I think that they may not be the best target for a war-on-terrorism effort. Rather than going after a guy with a tenuous link to Al Qaeda, how about Pakistan--which was allowing Taliban and Al Qaeda guys over their borders in great numbers? Or how about one of the other terrorist-supporting nations--one that doesn't already have to run a naval blockade to move things? And last week I heard on TV that Al Qaeda was re-opening some of their bases in Afghanistan!! If that's true, how about blasting THOSE into craters, and sending enough extra troops back to Afghanistan to have REAL control?!

    Even though I think it'd be nice to have Saddam out of power, I think that this isn't the time to be doing anything about it. There are places that are probably more strategic to blast or occupy in the war on terrorism.

    -Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    I have too many things to say about the issue, as a direct neighbour to that area but I see no point you can take those nukes and..there is no freaking thing on earth which can justify a war. All i can say is;





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  22. #22
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    QponCentral good grief! When Hitler warred against his neighbors, he WON for Pete's sake. He was able to keep and hold the lands he conquered and conquer more. And, he kept winning right up until we whipped him. In fact, if we hadn't gotten some of his scientists, he probably would have won altogether.

    Saddam is a pretty poor leader to compare to Hitler who on spite of his evil was pretty impressive. Saddam is a two bit wannabe.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  23. #23
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    "The answer to all of the above is yes. Saddam has given us no choice. Do we wait until he uses chemical weapons? Oh wait. He already did that on the Kurds. Do we wait until he makes a strike on America? Oh wait, he did that too when he tried to have a former US president assassinated."

    Think about this. What if Saddam asked the same question about the US ... we must attack the US because otherwise they will use their nuclear weapons on us. What if Iran said the same thing about the US ... we better attack the US because otherwise the US is sure to use its weapons on us. What if Germany said the same thing about France? What if Saudi Arabia said the same thing about Israel? Sounds like a world war to me.

    Saddam is an evil man, but that does not mean that it is any less evil to kill him AND tens of thousands of people in Iraq.

    That's my opinion AND take note that the opinion of the majority of the world outside the US is against war without UN approval.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    I probably should stay out of this but I need to vent a little also!

    Gabe,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Anyway, they should have finished the war the first time and now we wouldn't have this discussion.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Don't you mean we should of finished it in the first place. I believe the US did want to finish of the regime but the only way to gather support was to agree to just liberate Kawait which was done. I do agree the US shouldn't of listened and just kept going. Many poeple were killed because we stopped air support. If memory serves me right it was the kurds who attemped to make a move thinking air support would be on their side and wasn't. Shame on us!

    Elbow,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm just torn. On the one hand, I think Saddam is dangerous, on the other, I just hate to think of the casualties that are about to occur within a few brief weeks. I just wish there was a way out of this that did not involve shooting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think thats how most people feel, myself included.

    I have come to the conclusion though that the time is now. Things will not change in Iraq with just the inspections going on. All it will do is prolong the inevetible.

    One of the reasons I have finally decided it is time to go to war is because of the sanctions that have been going on in Iraq. The infint mortality rate is sickening. We can blame it on Suddam for not using the oil sales that we allow for food and medicine, but it still comes down to the world sitting by and letting the innocent children of Iraq die because of the sanctions.

    Hopefully casualties will be few on both sides and Saddam will be stopped right away before he can unleash what we all know he is capable of doing. Hopefully his Generals and other people in charge will do the right thing when the time comes. JMO of course.

    Doc,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Saddam will have nothing to lose... that is the worst part. I think he can and will do anything to save himself and cause as much damage to every living thing, the environment and the planet as he can. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No Doubt that is what scares me the most about it all.

    Big Country,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> No one wants war, and it should be avoied at all costs, but some people just can't be reasoned with. I believe the war is justified, and I support the decision, but I hate to see Americans get killed. That is what I don't like. It is only a matter of time, however. The truth is that sometimes war is the only solution before it is too late.

    As they say... "The price of freedom isn't cheap" . I hope we don't have to go to war with North Korea, and I believe that we will be more reluctant to do so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I hate to see Americans our allies or Iraqis killed. We all saw what happened with the gulf war after days and days of heavy bombings. Most of the Iraqi soldiers don't want this anymore than we do. Right now they have no choice just as before. Suddam sticks them where ever with an antique weapon. They have no choice. Hopefully and IMO you will see a lot of soldiers from the Iraqi army also being liberated along with the Iraqi people. Desertions will be swift. Hopefully it will be the Generals doing it right away though.

    Lisa,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It's always US . It's comforting to know that Britain speaks the same language , in more ways than one.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Isn't Great Britain and the US one country. Hmmm, it should be. We couldnt ask for a better Friend. Thanks Great Britian for always being there when we need you but not being afraid to give us a kick in the ass when we do something stupid.

    Doc,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The US and its allies will be a target of aggression by the hands of numerous terrorist factions for twenty years to come . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree but that is the way it will be no matter which direction we go. I personally believe the war in Iraq will be similar to what is going on in Afganistan. The only difference is what I agreed with above about not knowing what Saddam will be able to do before it is over. Very Scary!

    QPon,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The answer to all of the above is yes. Saddam has given us no choice. Do we wait until he uses chemical weapons? Oh wait. He already did that on the Kurds. Do we wait until he makes a strike on America? Oh wait, he did that too when he tried to have a former US president assassinated.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yup. What you said. I agree 100% Sanf, the talk of Nuclear weapons has been and always will be just that, Talk! Will never happen. Not in a million years unless another country used in on another first. We won't be the first to use them. Besides, we have the Bunker Buster!

    MJ,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Pray for us all, I fear the worst yet still hope for a peaceful resolution.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    As normal lately, you and I see things the same way. Hmmm, is that significant other still around? I'm joking of course MJ! What would be nice is to wake up one morning soon and hear on the news that a coup happened overnight and Suddam is history. It really is posible and probably about the only thing to stop a war. Everyone say their prayers!

    Ecom Mike,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'd prefer we back off or withdraw our troops in South Korea and force those ingrates to defend themselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    From what my father has told me, the South Koreans are one of the toughest fighters around and proved to be a true combat soldier worthy of US respect. Where do you get off with Ingrates? The rest I'll just leave alone. Not worth the hassles.

    Leader,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Even though I think it'd be nice to have Saddam out of power, I think that this isn't the time to be doing anything about it. There are places that are probably more strategic to blast or occupy in the war on terrorism.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I totally disagree! He is the most dangerous man in the world and there will never be peace with him around.

    Nit,

    I feel for you. I consider you a friend. Turkey is in a tough situation. Really nothing to say to help you feel any better. Turkey has always been there for the US and I am sure they will be there this time also. I know its not what they want and probably shouldn't have to deal with it. I'm sure you also feel the main brunt of the refugees of war that will be fleeing to your border. Hopefully the US and Allies will make it up to you somehow and take care of the effects it will also have on your economy. Sorry Nit!

    Ssanf,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Saddam is a pretty poor leader to compare to Hitler who on spite of his evil was pretty impressive. Saddam is a two bit wannabe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The only reason he is a wannabe is because he has been somewhat contained. Containment won't last forever as he slimes his way around in search of the altimate weapon. Sooner or later if not already he will get his hands on it. He really does nee to be stopped right now. Sucks, but its a fact that has to be faced.

    My opinion is it does suck but unless like I said above that he is overthrown soon I think it will happen and should. Hopefully the loss of life on all sides, the US and Allies and the Iraqi people will be kept to a minimum.

    I belive that by actions being taken now will save many, many more people from dieing in the future. It has always bugged me to see what the sanctions are doing to the people of Iraq. This will put an end to the sanctions and will save a lot more lives by doing so. I REALLY would like to see a peaceful sollution but I don't see it happening.

    FWIW, I have a son who just turned 18 years old. I know that our forces are spread out and there is always the posibility of a draft. Something that scares me also. War is stupid. Shouldn't have to be a sollution but sometimes it is. This time IMO it is a sollution. Sorry for venting.

    Coincidence Me baby!

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  25. #25
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I REALLY would like to see a peaceful sollution but I don't see it happening <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not with that half-wit Bush in the Whitehouse

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