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  1. #1
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Target is a Target?
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071003/...arget_blind_dc


    Hadn't really thought about access for the visually impaired. Although that is a sector that perhaps has not been addressed adequetly, it's going to be hard to enforce making web sites accessible to the blind.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  2. #2
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    Only in California would this lawsuit see the light of day

  3. #3
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    I don't want to seem insensitive and maybe I'm missing something, but what are they supposed to do to make their site more accessible to the blind? Braille obviously won't work. Are they suggesting that all websites should have audible descriptions of products? I can't imagine what that would do to bandwidth requirements.

    I can't believe that the State of California doesn't see this as frivolous. What's next, will California start issuing drivers licenses to the blind so as not to discriminate?

    -rematt
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  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Isn't that kind of like suing music companies for not making cds accessible to the deaf? I've known some legally blind people and they surfed the internet just fine. They had additional software and gadgets that allowed them to know what was on the screen.

    As long as Target is section 508 compliant, I don't see where there's a case here. And as far as I know, someone correct me if I'm wrong, I think section 508 is only applicable to Federal web sites.

    http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?...tent&ID=12#Web
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  5. #5
    Yup, Sure ... now let me check ... Cagles Mill's Avatar
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    OK, that does it! I am left-handed and I have never seen a lawsuit protecting the interest of left-handers.

    If the blind can require something like this, then I am going to start by suing (spelling?) every retailer that has credit card machines set up for the customer to use themselves. Every single one of these @#$%^&* machines are designed for use by right-handers. You have to swipe the card with your right-hand and, assuming there is a "pen" on a cord for you to sign with, the cord is too short to be easily used by left-handers (the cord is designed for use be right-handers).

    I will start with this and then move on to all the other ways left-handers are discriminated against daily. Any lefties on here to join me?!
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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador meadowmufn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagles Mill

    I will start with this and then move on to all the other ways left-handers are discriminated against daily. Any lefties on here to join me?!
    Does slightly ambidexterous count?
    -Don't criticize anyone til you've walked a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.
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  7. #7
    Member lookingfortips's Avatar
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    First of all, why is Target being singled out?

    This would be ridiculous for any company to be targeted but I'm curious why they specifically went after Target.

    Let's just start a class action law suit against the entire internet. I'm ready to retire.


  8. #8
    Beachy Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagles Mill
    ...other ways left-handers are discriminated against daily. Any lefties on here to join me?!...
    I'm sure MRS. Beachy would be happy to lend support to such a just cause.
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  9. #9
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    Let me ask my bro about this. Part of what he does for a living is to give tips/advice to companies about their sites and usability for the disabled.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Adam, that is an interesting link, thank you. If this is a niche that consists of fifteen million or so surfers, then perhaps it is a niche that has not been addressed properly.

    I think the lawsuit is frivolous, but perhaps the topic is not....
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  12. #12
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    The topic of accessability is a good one, some good links on the page:

    http://www.gcflearnfree.org/home/accessibility.aspx

    "According to the World Health Organization, of the world's more than six billion people, between 750 million and one billion have a disability, and sadly, nearly 75% of those individuals with disabilities do not have access to computer technology. One contributing reason behind this is that 98% of existing websites are inaccessible."

  13. #13
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Ward
    OK, now I get it. This makes more sense now. It would seem that if you're already using good SEO techniques that you've already got the basics.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  14. #14
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I wonder if a site promoted as being the most handicapped accessible site might become rather successful, then.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  15. #15
    Member lookingfortips's Avatar
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    It's nice to see that there is actually a way to assist the blind with the internet. But again, why is Target being singled out? Obviously they are a big company with deep pockets but so are hundreds of others. Am I missing something?

  16. #16
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    Brother on messenger right now saying:

    "well, the Internet has been defined as a "place". I think the crux of this case stems on that. Since it is a place, it must be accessible to people with disabilities. However, one could argue that blind users could gain access to the products by going to the store- online is just an alternate place to go. But with Internet more shopping happening on the Internet, everyone should have access."

    "I see something like this being a bigger issue that for example, instead of paying your power bill my mail or going by their office, you HAVE to do it online. If that was the case, then it would have to be accessible"

    "problem with web accessbility standards is that they are gearing mainly for blind users and have not kept up with how the web had changed from text content to application content"

  17. #17
    Yup, Sure ... now let me check ... Cagles Mill's Avatar
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    Next up: Handicapped domain parking!
    Rick M.
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  18. #18
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cagles Mill

    I will start with this and then move on to all the other ways left-handers are discriminated against daily. Any lefties on here to join me?!
    Count me in!
    Quote Originally Posted by meadowmufn
    Does slightly ambidexterous count?
    Yes, it have to count!

    I was forced to became an ambidextrous for the same reasons Cagles Mill posted and more, so if he sue the right handers, I want some of that money too.

  19. #19
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    Being left handed is not a disability, not having one is.

  20. #20
    Newbie SuzanneMarie's Avatar
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    Without reading the original article, it would seem that the issue is USABILITY for the blind community, and ACCESSIBILITY of web sites for blind people using text based readers.

    Good USABILITY design translates into good SEO design, but you can have decent SEO and still not have a website usable by blind people.

    A good friend of mine is blind and uses a text based reader.

    It's suggested that you download a text based browser like lynx to see your sites as it would be read to a blind person. I've tried it, but couldn't ever figure out how to download and get lynx to work on a PC machine.

    Read the book "Don't make me think" for an intro on usability.

    Review this site as well:
    http://www.usability.gov/

  21. #21
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    Quote Originally Posted by lookingfortips
    First of all, why is Target being singled out?
    I think it was a random selection. I check some of the other big box and some of them have it while some don't.

  22. #22
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    Why Target, I think these past cases in 2006 has to do with this one:

    "They chose Target because of its popularity and because of a large number of complaints by blind patrons."

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...O7H4VBP128.DTL

    http://www.news.com/2100-1030-6038123.html

  23. #23
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lookingfortips
    First of all, why is Target being singled out?
    Primarily because Target has deep pockets.

    I don't think this has much to do with trying to do something wonderful for blind people. Most consumer class action suits only serve to enrich attorneys and they are eager to take on these law suits. because they are typically the only real winners. People that make up the class only get peanuts.

    Target claims that they are compliant with all the legal requirements. We'll see what happens.
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  24. #24
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Evangelist
    Primarily because Target has deep pockets.

    I don't think this has much to do with trying to do something wonderful for blind people. Most consumer class action suits only serve to enrich attorneys and they are eager to take on these law suits. because they are typically the only real winners. People that make up the class only get peanuts.
    That's garbage.

    Class action lawsuits are a major force in requiring that "Deep Pocket" mega corporations comply with applicable laws, do not impose unscionable fees or other requirements on consumers, and act in good faith.

    Members of large classes receive equitable monetary benefits, but they, along with much large numbers of people not necessarily part of the "Class", receive other types of benefits as well.

    Class actions have provided medical and monetary benefits for people who were given defective artificial heart valves, transfusions of contaminated blood, were victims of unfair credit reporting, and countless other instances of similar egregious conduct.

    About a year ago, a preliminary settlement of a class action against Enron was reached, returning 401(k) retirement plan benefits to former Enron employees. The settlement was for $37.5 M. The attorneys certified that they put in 56,500 hours of work on the case, and advanced almost $900,000 in costs. Their fees of $7 M amounted to $132.00/hour for the efforts they put in.

    There is currently pending a class action against AT&T for its wilfull and unlawfull release of confidential personal information of its customers to the NSA. In a preliminary ruling denying AT&T's immunity claim, the Federal judge hearing the matter wrote:
    "AT&T cannot seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal.
    ... "The compromise between liberty and security remains a difficult one. But dismissing this case at the outset would sacrifice liberty for no apparent enhancement of security."
    Without class action lawsuits, or the attorneys that prosecute them, victims such as those left in the wake of the Enron scandal would have little recourse, as would the perhaps hundreds of thousands, or perhaps millions, of AT&T customers having their personal information subject to illegal search and seizure.

    Attorneys fees are high, but the amount of work in handling a class action case is staggering, as are the extremely high costs of such litigation, which are advanced by the attorneys, with no guarantee of winning and receiving reimbusement for such costs, or in receiving any fees whasoever.
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  25. #25
    Full Member Tech Evangelist's Avatar
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    I have personally received legal invitations to join over 30 class action law suits over the past few years. Most were related to investments. Not a single one has settled with anything other than $millions going to the attorneys and only a few bucks going to the class action members.

    One of the worst was a Verizon suit where the attorneys got millions and we each got an settlement offer to allow us to commit to 2 more years of Verizon services at a $30 discount. WTF!!!

    Another was a Toshiba laptop suit where the settlement was a $200 discount card that we could only use to purchase another Toshiba laptop.

    The latest is an investment suit that seeks to pay out $0.05 per share as the settlement.

    AffiliateHound, you can defend this frivolous crap all that you want, but the vast majority of these law suits are clearly just for the benefit of enriching attorneys. It is a gold mine for the attorneys. There may be a few suits that have merit, as you pointed out, but every one that I've seen has been garbage.

    FYI, the courts already ruled on the issue of web sites and the Americans with Disabilities Act in 2004. Web site owners are not required to comply. I don't know where this new bunch thinks they are going with the Target suit. It has nothing to do with complying with applicable laws.

    http://www.news.com/Disabilities-Act...3-5384087.html
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