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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Do Google CPM Ads Show Up On All Pages - Or Just
    ...those pages that relate to the ad itself? To give an example:

    I want to show an ad to buy I Love Lucy Videos

    The sites that are available (in the sites list) are types of sites that have I Love Lucy "sub directories", with a URL such as: http://www.themainURLGoesHere/I_Love_Lucy

    Now, I don't really want the ad to show up on all of their directories that don't relate to this topic, but just that main section. Would Google show the I Love Lucy ad on that particular sub page, or on all of their pages, regardless of topic? Google targets their PPC ads accordingly, but not sure for CPM ads.

    Any insight would be appreciated - as I'm having a bit of a time trying to figure this out (also posted on Google's help forum).

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Merchant & ABW Ambassador
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    IMHO, CPM is working on the same concept as the PPC.

    I have a test site, let's call it
    Apparel

    CPM on the main page are apparel related.
    Digging further in, for example, "underwear" directory, I only see CPM ads for underwear.

    I browsed around different directories within my site and I am seeing the same thing..

    I maybe wrong though

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Cool, thanks for the info. I'm hoping that is the case, as it seems like a lot of money to spend, unless the entire site is related to that topic.

  4. #4
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Yep, you can target sections as well as individual pages.
    https://adwords.google.com/support/b...716&topic=7072

    Site targeting is on a CPM basis, not CPC. CPM, you pay for impressions. CPC, you pay for clicks. As an advertiser, CPM billing can (and usually does) whack your ROI.

    Since many affiliates are ROI marketers (not branding marketers like the big boys), it's pretty rare (though not impossible) to find affs who are making a positive ROI in a CPM environment... keep a close eye on your returns if you do site targeted CPM ads.

    One last important thing... I see people confusing this all the time, in a CPM environment, so I need to add... site-targeted isn't buying a spot, it's bidding for a spot... you will be competing with CPC ads that are algorithmically being rotated among the CPM... as you try to lower your cost of those impressions (CPM!), you will often be overtaken by the swarming CPC ads competing for that space... it's you and your manual bidding against the minions and the machine... you will often be disappointed in your volume... CPM via AdWords is really something you should save for absolute prime spots that for some very special reason, you have a dire need to occupy. Otherwise, CPM will take too much time or money to run effectively. Learn more here about the CPM vs CPC competition that continuously goes on:
    https://adwords.google.com/support/b...280&topic=7072

  5. #5
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Yep, you can target sections as well as individual pages.
    https://adwords.google.com/support/b...716&topic=7072

    Site targeting is on a CPM basis, not CPC. CPM, you pay for impressions. CPC, you pay for clicks. As an advertiser, CPM billing can (and usually does) whack your ROI.

    Since many affiliates are ROI marketers (not branding marketers like the big boys), it's pretty rare (though not impossible) to find affs who are making a positive ROI in a CPM environment... keep a close eye on your returns if you do site targeted CPM ads.

    One last important thing... I see people confusing this all the time, in a CPM environment, so I need to add... site-targeted isn't buying a spot, it's bidding for a spot... you will be competing with CPC ads that are algorithmically being rotated among the CPM... as you try to lower your cost of those impressions (CPM!), you will often be overtaken by the swarming CPC ads competing for that space... it's you and your manual bidding against the minions and the machine... you will often be disappointed in your volume... CPM via AdWords is really something you should save for absolute prime spots that for some very special reason, you have a dire need to occupy. Otherwise, CPM will take too much time or money to run effectively. Learn more here about the CPM vs CPC competition that continuously goes on:
    https://adwords.google.com/support/b...280&topic=7072
    Man, right on Dough! We did a lot of CPM a few years back and played with it a couple years ago again to re-confirm that it was not the way to go. Thankfully the ppc roi offset the cpm losses, but I would be very reluctant to go the CPM route again as first hand experience over a fairly substantial time frame / expense frame gave us the answer for our own direction.
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    Yep, you can target sections as well as individual pages.
    https://adwords.google.com/support/b...716&topic=7072

    Site targeting is on a CPM basis, not CPC. CPM, you pay for impressions. CPC, you pay for clicks. As an advertiser, CPM billing can (and usually does) whack your ROI.

    Since many affiliates are ROI marketers (not branding marketers like the big boys), it's pretty rare (though not impossible) to find affs who are making a positive ROI in a CPM environment... keep a close eye on your returns if you do site targeted CPM ads.

    One last important thing... I see people confusing this all the time, in a CPM environment, so I need to add... site-targeted isn't buying a spot, it's bidding for a spot... you will be competing with CPC ads that are algorithmically being rotated among the CPM... as you try to lower your cost of those impressions (CPM!), you will often be overtaken by the swarming CPC ads competing for that space... it's you and your manual bidding against the minions and the machine... you will often be disappointed in your volume... CPM via AdWords is really something you should save for absolute prime spots that for some very special reason, you have a dire need to occupy. Otherwise, CPM will take too much time or money to run effectively. Learn more here about the CPM vs CPC competition that continuously goes on:
    https://adwords.google.com/support/b...280&topic=7072

    This is my first time trying to promote via CPM (through Adwords). I did read somewhere (on ABW I think) that CPM is mainly used for branding. That's something I didn't know, and glad I found out early on.

    The products that I'm planning, or was planning, to promote (from a merchant I think you're familiar with) has an incredible conversion rate when targetting customers through PPC. So I was curious as to how that might fare, if I could target visitors to a site who's topic is tightly aligned with the product and CPM ad. (make sense?)

    I've never been confident in this model. I was going to try it anyway, but I'll heed your advice and save myself some dough. I've already done enough testing and haven't shown any really noticeable results with that.

    Thanks for the detailed info and help, Donuts and Alan.

  7. #7
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    So I was curious as to how that might fare, if I could target visitors to a site who's topic is tightly aligned with the product and CPM ad. (make sense?)
    The CPC targeting that AdWords algorithmically performs is tight (if your ad groups are small and cohesively themed), so you might be better served by doing CPC. The algorithmic approach means a lot more volume. The CPC approach means a lot better chance at a positive ROI. However, I encourage you to test, test, test. And do a little math as well.

    Let's say you have an ad you've run in AdSense via CPC and have discovered certain sites through that activity, sites you're considering targeting with CPM / site-targeted campaign. You can now run a placement report and see the sites it's showing on AND you can see the data for those individual sites and pages. Knowing the CTR your ad gets from that report, and knowing it's the same ad shown whethere it's there through a CPC or CPM bid, you can calculate whether a CPC or CPM approach is to your advantage.

    Normally, for CPM to win in a CPM-or-CPC-is-better comparison, your ad has got to have a relatively high CTR (since you're paying for imps in a CPM environment). Assuming content sites with the highest CTRs aren't fraudulent clicks, these are the cases where CPM may be worth considering.

    If you pay for imps (CPM) and you hardly get any clicks (ie, low CTR), the math is going to pound down your CPM ROI no matter how highly converting (or highly margined) the product/service may be.

    So, as in many things PPC related, CTR is again the key metric that you should focus on.

    If your content ad's have low CTRs in a CPC setup, then ROI-minded folks can summarily dismiss the CPM idea... and stick to paying for clicks, not imps.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Knowing the CTR your ad gets from that report, and knowing it's the same ad shown whethere it's there through a CPC or CPM bid, you can calculate whether a CPC or CPM approach is to your advantage.

    Normally, for CPM to win in a CPM-or-CPC-is-better comparison, your ad has got to have a relatively high CTR (since you're paying for imps in a CPM environment). Assuming content sites with the highest CTRs aren't fraudulent clicks, these are the cases where CPM may be worth considering.
    Very good point, D. I'll take a look into those specific campaigns, and double check the CTR rates for those particular ads. I'm not sure what would be a good "high" CTR, but would think that something over 7-10% would be ideal? I see what you mean though. The ones I initally ran for CPM was getting roughly .05% CTR, which for the price I was paying for 1000 impressions ($1.00) didn't equate to much.

    Let me see what I find, and will check back with you. Thanks a bunch again.

  9. #9
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    I'm not sure what would be a good "high" CTR, but would think that something over 7-10% would be ideal? I see what you mean though. The ones I initally ran for CPM was getting roughly .05% CTR, which for the price I was paying for 1000 impressions ($1.00) didn't equate to much.
    If you can get 7-10% on content network, yep, you should definitely look at CPM.

    Some math...

    1000 imps x .05% CTR = 0.5 clicks.
    If you're paying $1 for a 1000 imps, that's $2 cost per click ($1/0.5).

    1000 imps x 7% CTR = 70 clicks.
    If you're paying $1 for a 1000 imps, that's $0.014 cost per click ($1/70).

    So you can see that .05% CTR is a no-go, and 7% CTR is definitely worth looking at. Somewhere in between is an area of gray, depending on your CPM cost, CTR, unit margin and traffic quality / conversion rate.

    At $2 a click (0.05% CTR), there's very, very few opportunities for a positive ROI.

    Further, in a CPC model (versus CPM model), in the content network only, generally speaking CTR doesn't affect your unit ROI because it doesn't change your position nor does it change your actual cost per click. So low CTRs are hardly bothersome in the CPC model.

    Also, I ask you to do a little mental noodling on imps as well... as you yourself browse a site, every page load, reload, refresh, step forward, step back (depending on nav method and cache settings), visit tomorrow, spawned new tab/window as you want to type in someplace else to go but loads that previous page first, etc... imps happen... getting a 7% CTR in a content network setup, even when constrained to individual target pages, is extremely uncommon.

    CTRs in the 2-4% range are achievable, I do it often. But pushing it beyond 4%, takes considerable honey, holding both flash and relevant substance to get the visitor (ie, click).

    If you can get a 7% content network CTR, you should brag about it loudly. Certain circumstances make it possible, but they're usually so niche or specialized, that the quantity / volume will likely be something to keep quiet about.

    Properly designed CPM site-targeting can boost your CTR beyond what's achievable with CPC, because you control the sites / pages. But doing so often requires special strategies that hold a special (almost unique) tie-in to readers on that page, and not in a casual way. Those special strategies aren't something I'm going to discuss further here, I get paid a lot to devise them for others. But since you seem to be grasping the balance of this CPC vs CPM discussion to now (everyone else stopped reading a while ago... hehehe), I'll tell you as much as I have here. Give it some thought and think about people on that page as club members sitting inside their clubhouse - how do you get them interested in a sign on the wall inside...

    Lastly, there's a third bit of math to consider... banners and text ads can be CPC or CPM... but there's a hybrid... click-to-play video ads... I tried to share this here before at ABW and it went very poorly because people are relatively unaware of this AdWords medium... I don't care to revisit that area since it went so poorly before, but I will say that in some situations, a somewhat small % of them, it's the most wonderful math of all. Give those video ads a bit of attention and research when your time permits. If you have any product or service that's visually stimulating, I urge you to switch my last suggestion from "bit" of attention to "large chunk" of attention.

    Have fun and good luck!

  10. #10
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    I have found that CPM placements via AdWords require a much higher level of "inspection and monitoring." Even then, I was unable to make any campaigns profitable, and those that started out "mildly unprofitable" gradually declined in performance.

    I haven't tested CPM since Google offered the newer placement options, but ROI was so negative on all my earlier CPM efforts that I don't expect to work on any CPM placements via AdWords in the forseeable future.

    (Like Donuts, none of my broad campaigns reach above 3-4% CTR; most of my campaigns run below 2% CTR on Google and the Search Network; I don't think I have ANY Content Network PPC campaigns with CTR above 1.5% and almost all are below 1.0% CTR. However, I'm not certain that even a campaign with a 10% CTR could be profitable on a CPM basis, because Google compares the "predicted/effective CPM" of PPC ads with your CPM bid, and so your ad won't be shown unless you're bidding more than the PPC rates.)

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Wow - thanks for the great advice/help guys. I'm going to go through this with a fine toothed comb, and re-check my CTR stats to see what they're at now and will let you know.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    ...to show you how much I HAVEN'T been paying attention, I just now realized I was thinking that Google CPM and Content Network worked the same way - rather than being CPM vs CPC, and was confusing your baseline CPC for content network for the search network (if that makes any damned sense). So, though I am getting roughly 5+% for search network, my content CTR is roughly 1%. Don't ask how I didn't know that difference between content and cpm (with the search network CPC thrown in for good measure) - I have no idea.

    Having spit out those rough numbers, I'm assuming the CPM ad campaign is a definite no go, at least for now...?

    After clearing that up, let me ask just one more brief question: having read your comments (and discerning them properly), would you say that you do fairly well with the content network CPC model? I didn't read anywhere whether that was the case or not...and still am not sure whether asking that question is even ethical or not.

    So...sorry for the confusion. Bit slow on the uptake sometimes...

  13. #13
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness
    would you say that you do fairly well with the content network CPC model? I didn't read anywhere whether that was the case or not...
    Yes.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Thanks, D.

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    Like Donuts, I have certainly found that running CPC campaigns across the Google AdWords/AdSense Content Network can be quite profitable. Once you recognize that you need to bid separately for the Content Network, and monitor your Placement Performance Reports to identify "dud" sites like MySpace.com to add to your Site Exclusion List, you can often draw positive ROI from these campaigns.

    I have one campaign running with 1 and 2 cent bids, drawing about 2,000 to 4,000 clicks per day to drive 15-35 sales per day, with overall ROI at about +100% (roughly "doubling my money" in a relatively non-competitive topic area). Any efforts I make to boost traffic or increase ROI fail dismally, so I pretty much leave these campaigns on auto-pilot, only checking a few times a month to adjust bids (from 1 to 2 cents, or 2 to 1 cents, depending on average position).

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador MoneyBusiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwelch
    Like Donuts, I have certainly found that running CPC campaigns across the Google AdWords/AdSense Content Network can be quite profitable. Once you recognize that you need to bid separately for the Content Network, and monitor your Placement Performance Reports to identify "dud" sites like MySpace.com to add to your Site Exclusion List, you can often draw positive ROI from these campaigns.

    I have one campaign running with 1 and 2 cent bids, drawing about 2,000 to 4,000 clicks per day to drive 15-35 sales per day, with overall ROI at about +100% (roughly "doubling my money" in a relatively non-competitive topic area). Any efforts I make to boost traffic or increase ROI fail dismally, so I pretty much leave these campaigns on auto-pilot, only checking a few times a month to adjust bids (from 1 to 2 cents, or 2 to 1 cents, depending on average position).
    Thats fantastic, Mark (running 2000-4000 clicks a day). I understand what you are saying, and am in the process of reving the campaigns up for the content network, including setting seperate bids.

    I tested before in the past (just playing around mainly), but never did pay attention like I should. I suppose more than anything else, if you are going to work with the content network, that paying close attention for the bad sites is the name of the game. Otherwise, I cant see how it could be profitable, unless lucky.

    Thanks for the response, Mark.

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