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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    Well I dont want to stir this again just I thought this is a good answer to "certain persons and opinions" here which I argued with. I dont have to defend anymore as this is the best answer ever.



    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Mar1.html

    iucpxleps. <= please spell this, it's the meaning of life.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    I'm still trying to figure out how Iraq knew ahead of time before both votes in Turkey and decided to move its troops.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Troops and equipment from an Iraqi Republican Guard division have begun moving south toward Baghdad from their base near Mosul in northern Iraq, U.S. defense officials said on Thursday.

    The officials, speaking as U.S. and British forces massed in the Gulf for a possible invasion of Iraq, said the purpose of the shift was not clear. It was also not known if the whole division would move, possibly to help defend President Saddam Hussein's home city of Tikrit or go on to Baghdad.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    On another news note Khalid Shaikh Mohammed the number 3 man who is believed to have planned the 9/11 attacks, the cole attack and many more was caught thanks to a lot of help from Pakistan. WTG Pakistan!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapc...sts/index.html

    Probably no concern to the most of the world but it is to America.

    Coincidence Me baby!

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    [This message was edited by DaPackster on March 01, 2003 at 11:15 PM.]

    [This message was edited by DaPackster on March 01, 2003 at 11:16 PM.]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    In WWII, Hitler(Germany) wanted cross Turkey to continue its invasion of Russia from a second front, and doing so wanted weaken Russian Army by forcing them to fight in seperate grounds.

    Turkey rejected that as well!

    This also shows that Turkey is a true decomracy.

    60% percent of Americans (according to an NYT poll) doesn't want to go to war with Iraq, yet Bush Admin. is going.

    Also, a vast majority of British people, doesn't want UK to join forces with US in an Iraq war, yet Blair is going.

    Doesn't sound very democaratic to me. What good is democracy, if what majority of people want is disregarded in an important matter like "war"?

  4. #4
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    Money talks - but whose??

  5. #5
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, I certainly hope this slows things down a bit.

    As long as the UN inspectors keep on his tail, Sadam isn't much of a threat. They need to just keep the pressure on until he is toppled from power which can't be much longer if his people are truly starving. Hungry, oppressed people always rise up and revolt, eventually. That is what is needed, not the US going in there and doing their revolution for them.

    If the price of liberty is blood, we paid for ours with the American Revolution, the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement. Let the Iraqi people pay for their Liberty in their own time and in their own currency.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on March 02, 2003 at 10:34 AM.]

  6. #6
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the price of liberty is blood, we paid for ours with the American Revolution, the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement. Let the Iraqi people pay for their Liberty in their own time and in their own currency.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree.. I've quoted this before: "Every country has the government it deserves." If you want freedom and democracy that often comes at a price.. usually bloodshed, but not always. Recent examples of undemocratic regimes being overthrown by the people include Serbia, South Africa and East Timor. It *can* be done.. it *has* been tried in Iraq after the first Gulf War - and the west learned a few lessons after that, didn't it? Maybe next time we need to be a little more proactive when the people start to revolt?

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  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Good positive move where the Islamic states like Turkey see their attempt to blackmail the US for 30 billion dollars and use a War on Iraq as a stealth move to get 80,000 of their own soldiers into N. Iraq dissappears. They can sit on the sidelines and keeps their mitts off any spoils of the War and have zero say on the resulting formation of the new Iraq.

    Kuwait, Qutar, the Shites and the Kurds no longer will be forced to watch their backs from the Turkmen. Turkey has their hands full over the Cypris deadline. Iraq withdrew most of their major northern forces so a stable base of operations for air support, supply, rescue and Air calvery will have the protection of the Kurd forces.

    The 62,000 USA troops & supplies will just head to Kuwait and the last move of the Arab world will be to force the exile of Saddams top people and sit by and watch when he refuses. The word occupation will carry a new meaning as even the Afganis beg for more of it as the USA protective forces allow for what SSanf called for ....internal revolt by the oppressed masses.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    LONDON — Some of the peace activists who went to Iraq to serve as human shields in the event of war returned home, fearing for their safety, a spokesman said Sunday.

    The human shields are mostly European activists who drove from London to Baghdad in two double-decker buses last month, intending to guard civilian sites from a U.S.-led military attack.

    Those who returned home had safety or financial concerns, spokesman Christiaan Briggs said.

    "The aim was always a mass migration and if we had had five to ten thousand people here there would never be a war," he said. "We do not have those numbers."

    The Sunday Telegraph newspaper reported that nine of the 11 British human shields in the bus convoy had left Baghdad. Briggs said about a dozen Britons remained in Iraq alongside several dozens from other countries.

    He told Britain's Press Association news agency that Iraq limited the sites that human shields could visit. "Now we are being told we cannot go to certain sites, such as hospitals, so we are reassessing our strategy," he said.

    U.S. officials have said that it is a war crime to use civilians as human shields and that there's no way of guaranteeing their safety.

    On Friday, the head of Sweden's largest peace organization urged human shields to leave Iraq, saying they were being used for propaganda purposes by Saddam Hussein.

    Maria Ermanno, chairwoman of the Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society, cited reports that Iraqi officials were arranging transportation, accommodations and news conferences for the human shields.

    "To go down to Iraq and live and act there on the regime's expense, then you're supporting a terrible dictator. I think that method is entirely wrong," Ermanno told Swedish Radio.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80019,00.html

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  9. #9
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    They were a bunch of misguided idiots, led by an American nut. You could probably gather together 11 people to do just about anything, including sit on a bomb target.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Steveinid's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Doesn't sound very democaratic to me. What good is democracy, if what majority of people want is disregarded in an important matter like "war"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We don't operate under a true democracy. That would be bad. The President is elected democratically but is not in any way expected to administrate democratically. The constitution doesn't call for that. Clinton tried running the country based on polls and look what happened. GWB is running the office the way it should be run. In addition, I have seen polls where the majority of people want Bush to continue as he is. Consider the source of your polls. BTW... No one wants to go to war. That is a problem the press has when they report. They mistake Bushes insistance that Saddam follow the resolution or suffer the consequences as "wanting to go to war".

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hungry, oppressed people always rise up and revolt, eventually. That is what is needed, not the US going in there and doing their revolution for them.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dictators who rule with an iron fist normally disarm their own people so thay can't revolt. I bet you will find that the people of Iraq are forbidden from owning weapons. If that is the case, they have no chance.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If the price of liberty is blood, we paid for ours with the American Revolution, the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement. Let the Iraqi people pay for their Liberty in their own time and in their own currency <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The price of freedom is diligence... Thomas Jefferson I think.
    Bush sees our freedoms are under attack (WTC bombing, Cole attack, 9/11 etc...) We are not so much fighting for Iraqs freedom as we are maintaining our own.

  11. #11
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Dictators who rule with an iron fist normally disarm their own people so thay can't revolt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yep, they always do. But, that hasn't stopped revolutions before. I think the French did it with pitch forks. And, Gahandi did it with nothing at all.

    What is needed is for every man woman and child to stop obeying Sadam. If no one follows hin, he can't lead. If his soldiers refuse to shoot and his policemen refuse to arrest then what?

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  12. #12
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    I do believe the French (an outside influence) gave us a great deal of help and support during our revolutionary war. If they had not we may not be here today. Ghandi was not combating a maniacal dictator, he was fighting a regent who represented the king a thousand miles away, and who had some form of moral ethics. If Ghandi were in Iraq, Saddamm would execute him immediately and the people would continue to live under his heel.

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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by General Reikan:
    If Ghandi were in Iraq, Saddamm would execute him immediately and the people would continue to live under his heel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> By the same token, if Saddam had been in India during that era, Ghandi would not have lasted long enough to make the history books - few would have known of him at all prior to his early demise.

  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SSanf:

    What is needed is for every man woman and child to stop obeying Sadam. If no one follows hin, he can't lead. If his soldiers refuse to shoot and his policemen refuse to arrest then what?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's awfuly hard to fight the hand that feeds you.
    I've read that 60% of Iraq's population relies on food rations from Sadam.

  15. #15
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    Hi all
    As a Turk i must give answer

    First of Kurdish population in Turkey donot want turks to let america go why?
    If turkey lets them they know turkish soldiers also enter north iraq and donot let them set their kurdishtan dreams.

    For us money is not really important. Important thing is dont let kurds to set their country and donot let iraq to split.

    I think this thing(donot let americans to go over Turkey) is a mistake it is because of some problems in the party in goverment. These problems will be solved and Turkey will let americans troops.

    As we said before we always prefer America to iraq. None of Turks like saddam and they all want him to go.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Good positive move where the Islamic states like Turkey see their attempt to blackmail the US for 30 billion dollars and use a War on Iraq as a stealth move to get 80,000 of their own soldiers into N. Iraq dissappears. They can sit on the sidelines and keeps their mitts off any spoils of the War and have zero say on the resulting formation of the new Iraq.

    Kuwait, Qutar, the Shites and the Kurds no longer will be forced to watch their backs from the Turkmen. Turkey has their hands full over the Cypris deadline. Iraq withdrew most of their major northern forces so a stable base of operations for air support, supply, rescue and Air calvery will have the protection of the Kurd forces.

    The 62,000 USA troops & supplies will just head to Kuwait and the last move of the Arab world will be to force the exile of Saddams top people and sit by and watch when he refuses. The word occupation will carry a new meaning as even the Afganis beg for more of it as the USA protective forces allow for what SSanf called for ....internal revolt by the oppressed masses.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Hi OnlyReal and Welcome,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think this thing(donot let americans to go over Turkey) is a mistake it is because of some problems in the party in goverment. These problems will be solved and Turkey will let americans troops.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    From reading a little more today I see there is an elction of some sort this coming Sunday. To me it would seem like that was the reason for the turn down of American troops. I'm pretty sure your country will be changing their mind but I think it is a matter of whether the U.S. will decide to wait until next week or not. Time will tell I guess.

    As for the U.S. giving Turkey the money, I personally have no problem with it. I know what the last war there did to Turkeys economy plus what the sanctions against Iraq have done. I believe they use to be your number 1 trade partner at one time. I could be wrong though.

    I see your markets took a beating today because of the choice not to allow U.S. troops to use Turkey. Hopefully the markets will settle down a bit tomorrow. Maybe Suddam will be knocked off in the next couple of days and settle everythingthing down a bit. Wishful thinking I know.

    Coincidence Me baby!

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  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    "From reading a little more today I see there is an elction of some sort this coming Sunday. To me it would seem like that was the reason for the turn down of American troops."~ DaPackster

    This coming election is just a formality. There was some problem with current ruling party's president to be elected. That problem has been solved now, and he's legalley ready to be the prime minister. He was already running the show behind the curtains. But, he really did wanted to let Americans use Turkey, so the result was a disappoinment for him.

    But there is an important fact: 95% of Turkish public is against this was, and against letting US use our land. US would not go to war if that many American were opposed to the war, eventhough they're brave enough to ignore 60%.

    As far as money goes, as you said, last war cost us more than $30 billion dollars, and it's still hurting. Before the Gulf War US promised to compensate Turkey for some of the loss, but they did not keep their promise.

    Whatever is America is doing, doing so to protect their interests, not Turkey's not Uk's. So the countries who partner with them also should be smart enough to protect their interests.

    "I see your markets took a beating today because of the choice not to allow U.S. troops to use Turkey."~DaPackster

    The Turkish stock mmarket has been building in anticipation of the possible US aid. So when things turned down it lost what has been building. It may lose a little more in coming weeks, but it will pick up as Turkish economy is in the road to recover.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    The Nimitz Battle Group sailed out of San Diego yesterday headed for the Persian Gulf.

    We'll have an airport over there in a few days. Turkey or not.

    Doc

    "Half this game is ninety percent mental." -- Phillies Manager, Danny Ozark

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    "What is needed is for every man woman and child to stop obeying Sadam. If no one follows hin, he can't lead. If his soldiers refuse to shoot and his policemen refuse to arrest then what?"

    Ssanf, is this possible? Maybe, but I am having trouble getting behind it.

    On another note:

    "We'll have an airport over there in a few days. "

    Make that five portable airports in a few days !

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I'm sure the Seabees and Army Engineering corps can have several existing airports and sections of highways in operation for our short landing/takeoff aircraft and C130's to go with the 5 Carrier groups inside of a few days. Saddamm will rue the days he terrorized the Shites and Kurds.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  21. #21
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    I must give some answer
    %95 OF Turkey is against war it is true as like americans. But we know that there will be war with us or without us so %70 of Turkey selects America to Saddam. There is still some old communists as you know they are against all things come from america. And also religion you know %99 of Turkey is muslim as a Turks most of us donot like arabs but as a muslim we donot want to see young children die. Yes america says we dont kill them but you know it is war and every war have some results you cannot guess.

    Yes there is a election in Turkey today because of there is a problem (solved now) in election system party`s president cant be elected but today he will probably elected and will re build goverments ministers... Probabably there will be another election in assembly (council) and Turkey will let troops
    go 17-20 march.

    As for money thing yes money is important for us i donot wanna give more taxes if we donot let america go they will want too much tax for my ****ing clio(my car. I am giving 110cent/litre now i donot wanna pay more.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SamBay:
    "From reading a little more today I see there is an elction of some sort this coming Sunday. To me it would seem like that was the reason for the turn down of American troops."~ DaPackster

    This coming election is just a formality. There was some problem with current ruling party's president to be elected. That problem has been solved now, and he's legalley ready to be the prime minister. He was already running the show behind the curtains. But, he really did wanted to let Americans use Turkey, so the result was a disappoinment for him.

    But there is an important fact: 95% of Turkish public is against this was, and against letting US use our land. US would not go to war if that many American were opposed to the war, eventhough they're brave enough to ignore 60%.

    As far as money goes, as you said, last war cost us more than $30 billion dollars, and it's still hurting. Before the Gulf War US promised to compensate Turkey for some of the loss, but they did not keep their promise.

    Whatever is America is doing, doing so to protect their interests, not Turkey's not Uk's. So the countries who partner with them also should be smart enough to protect their interests.

    "I see your markets took a beating today because of the choice not to allow U.S. troops to use Turkey."~DaPackster

    The Turkish stock mmarket has been building in anticipation of the possible US aid. So when things turned down it lost what has been building. It may lose a little more in coming weeks, but it will pick up as Turkish economy is in the road to recover.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Edited for writing what clio is

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