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  1. #1
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    I'm not going to get into the politics of this war, but rather the economical suffering we may experience.

    The USA is most likely going to attack Iraq and if you have been watching the news, you'll learn that most of the world is against them. They have also gone to the extreme's of changing the word "french fries" to "freedom fries." Which I consider absolutely rediculous, considering that the word originated from Belgium (do you ever hear french people say "french"? No, they say francais.) Are we going to call the "french kiss" to "freedom kiss." Get real.

    I'm worried many American's do not understand the economical problem this war will cause America if they attack Iraq without UN support. China, Russia, France and basically most of the world is against the US in this war, a simple fact. The US has already started to boycott the French & Germans, soon the Russians and Chinese. Gas will skyrocket to $3.00 per gallon during the war, and people will be cheaper on what they buy, thus cutting revenues from our pockets.

    I do not see the good, other then increased terrorism, increased international tension which leads to less import and export (which is a dramatic blow to the economy), and increased gas prices.

    Why should we support such a war with such negative implications to our business and life?

    Bush will go on saying that Saddam is this and that, but you must realise that more then 75% of what he says are lies. Even the intelligence agencies have admitted that the USA and UK are manipulating intelligence information in order to justify war on Iraq. The Russian, Chinese, and French are no dummies to this either. Why do you think they have stood up against this war?

    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=376732

    Also, you hear Bush going on about how Iraq has gassed his people, etc. This is just another manipulation of what really happened.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/31/op...b6c3c76ea6ffe5


    I usually don't like to involve business and politics, but it looks like politics are going to greatly affect my business. So I'm just absolutely pissed about it.

    Best Regards,
    C. Pavlovski - Owner
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  2. #2
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> looks like politics are going to greatly affect my business <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Business doesn't mean a thing in situations like this. They will survive.

    Many people(many innocent) on both sides of this are not going to. No matter what happens the fanatics will just let it feed their minds and justify killing more now or in terrorist acts later.
    This is what should really be pissing people off not will I not make money if they go to war.
    I just hope somehow someday someone may actually wake up and stop the endless cycles of killings terrorism and wars instead.
    WW

    It was so cold last winter that I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.
    Give a man a fish he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish he spends the day drinking beer in the boat.

  3. #3
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    Don't be too naive. France does not want to go to war because French companies currently operate Iraq's oil fields. Russia has recently signed a new long term deal for oil with Iraq and Germany is the leading country in building Iraq's war machine.

    These countries are hardly anti-war because they are angels. They have vested interests just like every other country.

    So while I am not happy with the thought of war (bush bungled any chance of having the moral high ground), don't paint these other countries as being on the anti-war side for any other reason then their country's own economic standing.

    Chet

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    Good point. Obviously the people that die are much more important. I didn't mean for you to interpret that all I care for is the money, that's not the case. I just despice American foreign polict.

    It's getting worse people...

    "The FBI is looking into the forgery of a key piece of evidence linking Iraq to a nuclear weapons program, including the possibility that a foreign government is using a deception campaign to foster support for military action against Iraq."

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/884624.asp?0si=-

    Best Regards,
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  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chez Noir:
    Don't be too naive. France does not want to go to war because French companies currently operate Iraq's oil fields. Russia has recently signed a new long term deal for oil with Iraq and Germany is the leading country in building Iraq's war machine.

    These countries are hardly anti-war because they are angels. They have vested interests just like every other country.

    So while I am not happy with the thought of war (bush bungled any chance of having the moral high ground), don't paint these other countries as being on the anti-war side for any other reason then their country's own economic standing.

    Chet<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ofcourse there is a vested interest in oil for those countries. But what about China? Do they have one? Nope.

    It's in America's interest to conquer Iraq and control the oil too, and that's what they are trying to do. At least France and Russia properly setup alliances for the oil, instead of invading a country for it.

    There is no justification in putting men and women at risk to remove Saddam. Everything is fabricated by the US government, and people are just now starting to realise this.

    Best Regards,
    C. Pavlovski - Owner
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  6. #6
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    Doing nothing for 8 years is what got us where
    we are today. It is time for us to stop being
    wimps and start taking care of business.

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Sure GWB and group are being nieve that they can force the Islamic culture into the 21st century through force. Muslims are isolationists and do not mix very well with any other cultures. Heck they have murdered each other for land grabs for centuries as a standard operating proceedure.

    In the Arab world the real threat is the in fighting between the Shites -Sunni's -Kurds and Turkmen, once the US army defeats Saddam's forces, not whether the USA has designs on controlling Iraq's Oil industry. The ME and other Muslim nations are a power keg of competing Muslim dictorial nations who spin off their greed for more land is justified by Jehad against all infidels.

    All the inhabitants of Cypress could be prospering as a new EU nation but for the 100,000 Turkmen who'd have to give up the lands and homes they captured from the Cypress Greeks in that 70's war. Muslims believe in terrorism and civilian butchering as a valid means to capture land in Ivory Coast -Philipeans -Koslov -Somolia -Nigera -Kashmir- Palistine ect etc. For ages we'd have let them kill each other with their warlord mentalities and look the other way as the Turks kill off the Kurds and Sunnis try and wipe out the Shites and all treat the Palistians as a lower cast Arab.

    Except for the recent USA, Aussi and British zero tollerence of- NO MORE ISLAMIC TERRORISM - as their hijacked religion now threatens other cultures worldwide the toll of human lives would sky rocket unchecked. The War on Iraq is a statement by GWB that those who think they can justify killing Americans or any infidels will face the wrath of our armed forces. Is he wrong or is it OK by you to let those behind the Bali Bombing, 9/11, bus bombers in Kishmir or Muslim terrorist kidnappers in the Philipeans just continue unabated?

    He cannot and will not let any Muslim terror group get their hands on Nukes or other WMD as they will not hesitate to use them to terrorise the world and hold it up for ramsome. We'll have to handle N. Korea as a festering Nuke bomb wound, but right now they are not adding to the body count attributed to the terrorism hot spots. They are isolated and haven't killed any outsiders or plotted to take over S. Korea because they know it is suicide. Muslims adore suicide and would not hesitate to use Oil money to buy some nukes and missles from N. Korea as they feverously try and make their own nuke equalizers.

    Some people just don't get it. We are not the same USA we were before 9/11 and never will be tolerant of those who threaten or kill our citizens. GWB will not look the other way like the French -Germans or Russians.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's probably the first and best counter attack on my points I have ever seen in my life. You draw very good points, and ones that Bush doesn't even use.

    I must say you are right in many perspectives, but Bush does not take that approach. He instead manipulates information in order to justify the war. Your post would be rather offensive to many muslim people, and it's a stance that Bush would never beable to take for that reason alone. But from reading it, you present a well founded point.

    Muslims around the world have always been in for territorial aggression as proved in Kashmir, Chechnya, Kosovo, Palestine, etc. Although some places have more justification for aggression then others, they still do seek more territory in each situation.

    But then what's the difference in America's foreign policy? They seem to overthrow goverment's and insert puppet regime's, which is a type of colonialism known as neo-colonialism. They did it in Kosovo (which was also unfounded by the UN), Somalia, etc. and they will do it again in Iraq.

    Best Regards,
    C. Pavlovski - Owner
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  8. #8
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    All the more reason to go after al qaeda. Why are we distracting ourselves with Iraq? Al qaeda is the threat, they've hit us before, they'll hit us again. Finish them off. All muslims are not the same. I dont care if Iraq is helping Al Qaeda. Destory Al Qaeda and Iraq has no one to help.

    Sal @ PHATBargains.com

  9. #9
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Business has no place as an argument about whether or not you go to war. Remove it from the equation. Remove an implied asociation with the terrorists. Remove the European stereotype of Bush as a cowboy. Remove all suggestions that Saddam has nuclear/biological/chemical weapons he might use on us or our allies via terrorists. Forget about the fact that he has paid several million dollars to families of suicide bombers. Forget all this and focus on two simple facts, that both sides of this argument can agree on.

    Saddam has killed more than 100,000 of his own people. He has raped and tortured the wives and children of his politicl opponents. This is a fact. It is not a negotiable item, there is no gray area.

    Far as I'm concerned, Saddam has coming to him whatever we can dish out. If the rest of the world wants to play footsie with that serial killer, screw 'em. He has the @ss kicking of his life coming to him, and I say the sooner the better.

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  10. #10
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Saddam has killed more than 100,000 of his own people. He has raped and tortured the wives and children of his politicl opponents. This is a fact. It is not a negotiable item, there is no gray area.

    Far as I'm concerned, Saddam has coming to him whatever we can dish out. If the rest of the world wants to play footsie with that serial killer, screw 'em. He has the @ss kicking of his life coming to him, and I say the sooner the better. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No doubt the dude is tyranical maniacal monster, but he's not the only one in the world. Why not go into the African countries and liberate the millions of oppressed people there? Why single out Saddam? .. oh duh stupid question. Sucks being naive

    Sal @ PHATBargains.com

  11. #11
    Devil's Reject Electropulse's Avatar
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    hey man you wanna know why I'm doing the "affilate thing"? well, for one I use to work in the film buisness and low and behold the damn french-Canadians took all the buisness away, they really f'd up the economics around here.

    I sure hope that all those runaway productions come back to LA & NY. oui, oui!

  12. #12
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    LOL, Sal, maybe he'll straighten up Africa in his second term. I mean, the guys got a fairly large 'Honey Do' list as it is, heh.

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They did it in Kosovo (which was also unfounded by the UN), Somalia, etc<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mind telling me what puppet regime we left in Mogadishu? Last I looked, there hasnt been a regime of any kind there in a long time...

    Mel
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  14. #14
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elbowcreek:
    Saddam has killed more than 100,000 of his own people. He has raped and tortured the wives and children of his politicl opponents. This is a fact. It is not a negotiable item, there is no gray area.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What are you referring to? The gassing? Would you consider Paletinians people of Sharon? I wouldn't. So then I don't think you can consider Kurds people of Saddam. Because you are referring to Saddam killing the Kurds. Also, I posted an article from the NY Times that shows that Saddam did not gas the Kurds anyways. This is just misinformation that the US government has presented. I aslo presented an article on how the government presents misinformation, you should read it.

    Best Regards,
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  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SBTC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They did it in Kosovo (which was also unfounded by the UN), Somalia, etc<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mind telling me what puppet regime we left in Mogadishu? Last I looked, there hasnt been a regime of any kind there in a long time..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They attempted to oust a regime in Mogadishu by the means of assasination. But they failed, my mistake. No regime in there, but they tried.

    Best Regards,
    C. Pavlovski - Owner
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  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    C. Pavlovski you are starting to get the fact that GWB is a simple committed moral man with a plan. He drew a line in the sand after 9/11 and said your either for us or agianst us. That was not a political statement to buy votes or appease foreign governments ...it was a loud warning. Now we see some stradling that line and we clearly see others, who GWB puts on the opposing side, who harbor terrorists by their inaction. GWB sees the War on Iraq as the means to address a regime head on that treats its people as slaves and pawns in a power hungry tyrants hands.

    I just pray the battle is quick and feel real disappointment that Turkey made a move that will cost our forces and the Iraqis many more deaths. They stopped stradling the line in the sand and like Pakistan polarized the issue as a crusade. I just hope the N. Koreans are watching closely that GWB will not back down and the War rocks the boat of all Islamic cultures before they get their hands on mass killing weapons. They need to know they will be next on GWB's list and choose to be quieted in their quest for more Islamic independent nations. After Iraq there will be a penality posted for terrorism acts as those monitizing these murderous actions crawl back into their hideouts and forget their territorial quests.

    My take is that Israel will sit on the sidelines under GWB's orders unless attacked by Seria/Lebonese Hizbolla terrorists funded and armed by Iran. Russia will have to knuckle under and justify the building Nuke power plants in Iran with tightened controls by curbing enrichment of the plant's byproducts into weapons grade uranium and plutonium. We will have to take out the N. Korean Nuke plants as another example and that is why the Chinese are opposed to us attacking Iraq as that will be the obvious next step once we can focus on that dire problem.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  17. #17
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Pavlovski-
    So, you think Saddam is just.....misunderstood, heh. It's all a plot, we make this stuff up, cause we like risking our soldiers lives and beating up on innocent, misunderstood dictators. LOLOLOLOL.

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    C. Pavlovski you are starting to get the fact that GWB is a simple committed moral man with a plan. He drew a line in the sand after 9/11 and said your either for us or agianst us. That was not a political statement to by votes or apease foreign governments ...it was a loud warning. Now we see some stradling that line and we clearly see others, who GWB puts on the opposing side, who harbor terrorists by their inaction. GWB sees the War on Iraq as the means to address a regime head on that treats its people as slaves and pawns in a power hungry tyrants hands.

    I just pray the battle is quick and feel real disappointment that Turkey made a move that will cost our forces and the Iraqis many more deaths. They stopped stradling the line in the sand and like Pakistan polarized the issue as a crusade. I just hope the N. Koreans are watching closely that GWB will not back down and the War rocks the boat of all Islamic cultures before they get their hands on mass killing weapons. They need to know they will be next on GWB's list and choose to be quieted in their quest for more Islamic independent nations. After Iraq there will be a penality posted for terrorism acts as those monitizing these murderous actions crawl back into their hideouts and forget their territorial quests.

    My take is that Israel will sit on the sidelines under GWB's orders unless attacked by Seria/Lebonese Hizbolla terrorists funded and armed by Iran. Russia will have to knuckle under and justify the building Nuke power plants in Iran with tightened controls by curbing enrichment of the plant's byproducts into weapons grade uranium and plutonium. We will have to take out the N. Korean Nuke plants as another example and that is why the Chinese are opposed to us attacking Iraq as that will be the obvious next step once we can focus on that dire problem.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Honestly, everything you have said would make total sense if the USA didn't bomb Yugoslavia in 1999 to suppor the KLA, which is a muslim terrorist organization in Kosovo. This is a proven fact, because Al Queda bombed the Macedonian consulate and Yugoslavian consulate in Pakistan because they said those two nations fought their brothers, the KLA. lol

    I originate from Macedonia, and I could never understand the support America gave to the KLA when they were the ones going into houses and killin the serbian families to rid of the Serbian majority in Kosovo. That should have been noticed when Serbian population declined from 60% to 20% in 10 years.

    I even chatted with an American soldier in Macedonia in year 2000. He even said himself they chose the wrong side. Milosovic was only in persuit to rid of the terrorists.

    As you can all find out.. Milosovic's trial on Kosovo has been thrown out, and is now only tried for Croatia because no evidence exists for the genocide that America claimed he performed in Kosovo... which basically raises the question, Why did they bomb Yugoslavia?

    Two answers to this question... either it was a mistake and they never understood that KLA was a terrorist organization, or it was September 11th that got their heads on track.

    The KLA did it in Kosovo, the Chechens are doing it in Chechnya.

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  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elbowcreek:
    Pavlovski-
    So, you think Saddam is just.....misunderstood, heh. It's all a plot, we make this stuff up, cause we like risking our soldiers lives and beating up on innocent, misunderstood dictators. LOLOLOLOL.

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No. I just don't like the way Bush manipulates information to make him look worse then he really is. I personally don't like him, and would never support him.

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  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    I just pray the battle is quick...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Being that a few days ago some Iraqi soldiers heard some practice fire and headed in the direction of the sound with their hands up, seems to be one indication that it won't last long (not that anyone thinks it will anyway).

    I pray that the loss of life on both sides, and for the Iraqi soldiers as well as civilians, is as minimal as possible. A leaflet dropping run over each of the "presidential" palaces warning all (staff, it doesn't sound like many regular citizens/troops are allowed anywhere near them) to get out, followed an hour later by a couple of MOABs for each palace should pretty much wrap it up with no "important" infrastructure damage and minimal loss of life. Spy planes and satellites coordinated with the leaflet drop could track the hasty exit of any likely dictator limo's (Hummers?) heading for the hills and narrow down the potential spots to grab Saddam.

  21. #21
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Someone call Dr. Phil! We got a show in the making! Saddam's just beng....misrepresented and misunderstood.


    "I'm not bad.....I'm just built that way."
    -From "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"


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  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The sex/slavery mobsters in the balkins are also assinating Prime Misisters who threatened to bring law and order and democracy to thwart their moneuy manking plans. I think we were duped into focusing our bombing on the wrong party when both sides were seeking genocide on each other. The freshest mass graves got our attention and terrorism was rampent on both sides. Yoguslovia is no more and the resulting split territories now have to show the world if they can join the world community as productive folks.

    Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  23. #23
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    "most of the world is against this war"

    Not true go back to 1st grade maths adding and subtracting lesson. Most of the world does not equal France, Germany and a few drunken college students.

    I want Saddam dead and on a stick along with all of his supporters.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I want Saddam dead and on a stick along with all of his supporters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Me too! But at what price?

    If it means that all these sleeper cells wake up and start killing my friends and family, then it just aint worth it.

    If it means that our economy spirals downward and my friends and family lose their jobs, then it just aint worth it.

    If it means killing of innocent Iraqi women and children (not on purpose of course), it just aint worth it.

    If it means that Saddam destroys his own land and people and makes us look like the villain an turns the world against us, it just aint worth it.

    Sal @ PHATBargains.com

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C. Pavlovski:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SBTC:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They did it in Kosovo (which was also unfounded by the UN), Somalia, etc<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mind telling me what puppet regime we left in Mogadishu? Last I looked, there hasnt been a regime of any kind there in a long time..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They attempted to oust a regime in Mogadishu by the means of assasination. But they failed, my mistake. No regime in there, but they tried.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ummmm... nope. You're wrong again.

    Somalia problems date back to the 60's when they received independance from Italy. Siad Barre (Somali President) was forced out of the capital in January 1991, and the government collapsed. When the US arrived in December 1992, anarchy allready reigned. Or is this just more<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>misinformation that the US government has presented.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mel
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