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  1. #1
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    F.T.C. Member Vows Tighter Controls of Online Ads

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    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    This is good news, but I want to say that all the focus on Google, Yahoo and MSN, while getting at the most widespread players, doesn't get at the real problems. Privacy policies and protecting information are important, but for the most part, the big players do much to assuage real consumer concerns voluntarily. Meanwhile, identity theft and other e-commerce issues are the country's fastest growing crimes.

    The FTC should reread the ongoing reports by CDT.org, Kellie Stevens, Ben Edelman, Wayne Porter, Eric Howes and more. Go after the dirt and scum and grease and grime, not the very light layer of nearly harmless dust that covers everything on the planet. "We're attacking cybercrime" should be their mantra, not "we're feather dusting what we think might someday be cyber lint".

  3. #3
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    I really dislike the privacy advocates and FTC because they often sit back and observe online marketing, but never really understand what it is like to be in the trenches. Even the fact of consumer privacy. Online consumers do NOT mind ads or even cookies on their computer and in my own opinion I don't believe the propaganda that they say marketers use the information for.

    Granted some information is tracked, but the security should be on hacker and security regulations not privacy regulations

    OH Yeah it's going to be an uphill struggle in Europe if this one goes through.

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/in...idg/index.html

  4. #4
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    That one is from 6 years ago, cnn archives:

    November 5, 2001

  5. #5
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    I didn't realize that HAHA

    I came across it when I was looking for the segment from Robin in the Morning yesterday.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCafaro
    I really dislike the privacy advocates and FTC because they often sit back and observe online marketing, but never really understand what it is like to be in the trenches. Even the fact of consumer privacy. Online consumers do NOT mind ads or even cookies on their computer and in my own opinion I don't believe the propaganda that they say marketers use the information for.

    Granted some information is tracked, but the security should be on hacker and security regulations not privacy regulations
    This attitude is what is killing our industry.

  7. #7
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    Dear CHETF,

    I'm not really sure by what you mean "This attitude is killing our industry".

    My friend this is affiliate marketing and part of having/being part of a good program is the cookie. If you go out and do an excellent job of brand awareness and create informative pages that really help the consumer to know about your product, then shouldn't you be rewarded when they make a purchase down the line.

    I certainly think you should.

    Also, the online shoppers don't really appear to be in the same demographic as the FTC and other privacy administrations. Do you think privacy advocates would be so apt to make a purchase online? I don't know call me goofy but I don't think so and let alone with a credit card.

    Next, the propaganda of marketers using the information is blown way out of per-portion. I guess you don't have Gmail or even search on Google. I also hate to say it but we as people have become somewhat lazy and without readily admitting it we like the convenience of someone putting useful products in front of us.
    "As consumers we hate to be sold, but we do LOVE to buy"

    Another thing I hope as an affiliate marketer you don't read any buying trend reports or go to seminars that discuss good affiliate marketing because where do you think the information comes from? Some great affiliate of good AM was keeping tabs and decided to help out the rest of us.

    By all means you have been around this industry a long time and long time member of this forum who has made a lot of contributions. But before you attack my stand point elaborate on what you mean because if I by some chance I'm wrong then I welcome the opportunity to hear your philosophy and education on the matter.

    Regards,

    TonyCafaro

  8. #8
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    Nice strawmen. So ignoring all the false arguments you just created...

    You are taking an anti-consumer approach and dismissing consumer's interest as those of nutcases. Instead you should be looking at those concerns, because they are shared by more than just the kooks you are trying to paint me as, and understand them. Is there something you can do, is there information you can present to your users, is there anything you can let them know, hell is there anything you can promote that separates you from bad practicioners.

    Are there things you are doing which are bad practices, are there people you are partnered with that are behaving poorly? Do you promote harmful players?

    There are more than enough bad players in this industry to warrant this kind of scrutiny by the FTC and by affiliates themselves. These bad players get that way because they take the approach to consumers, that they are the enemy to be seperated from their cash in any way possible.

    That is a short term outlook and that harms this industry.

    Chet

  9. #9
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    Chet

    I don't believe they are false arguments, but idealist beliefs. Unfortunately sometimes idealist beliefs are manipulated to others gains, but I must stand my ground that those "strawmen" ideally of utmost importance of the industry. I am not painting you as a KOOK either FYI, but I do find that I need reasoning for for your comment "the attitude is killing our industry."

    This is my industry too and it will also be progressing to new levels just as affiliates progress to find niche market places. I choose to progress with it the same as you. What proof do you need from me as to best practices because I would be happy to share.

    Every affiliate I recruit is handpicked because my products represent a value to their sites content.

    I ensure monthly that each and every commission is paid.

    I establish reseller programs for affiliates who are fortunate enough to grow their sites large enough and would like to build even more.

    We use no bad practices; our program is managed entirely in-house with a great atmosphere and would not even consider Jepordizing the reputation of my company, this industry, or myself for financial gain. Hard work builds the biggest accomplishments and it takes time not overnight shortcuts.

    As per my first post I do think that the regulations should be taken, but once again with online security to make consumers feel safe and ensure their return. That is when affiliate marketing is most successful; building relationships.

    And as for all the bad players in the industry to warrant this scrutiny; I do not endorse nor encourage their practices, but their behavior is not would causes scrutiny.

    As you would with privacy, abortion, anti-war, politics, and religion you will find two different views that we know will never be persuaded to the other side. Movements like this are inevitable and will always emerge as people attempted to mold names for themselves in the spotlight.

  10. #10
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    I noticed you left something out about your program, the topic at hand. I am not saying that to draw any conclusions about you or your program as you readily want to do of me. But putting the customer last is a bad choice, Zango does all of what you say, I wouldn't join their program.

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCafaro
    I really dislike the privacy advocates and FTC because they often sit back and observe online marketing, but never really understand what it is like to be in the trenches. Even the fact of consumer privacy. Online consumers do NOT mind ads or even cookies on their computer and in my own opinion I don't believe the propaganda that they say marketers use the information for.
    So I am confused? Is it propaganda that the information isn't used? Or is it used in those reports you get at conferences? So confusing... consumers don't mind ads on their computers...

    Puting the customer's concerns last is not a long term strategy, you are always going to have to be battling consumer reaction. Affiliate marketing already has a bad rep for some people, it has zango, it has spam etc - right or wrong, people tie that into affiliate marketing Privacy concerns, tracking concerns... just more bad crap. And really simply, not caring about these things is the wrong thing to do.

    But thanks for further belitting anyone concerned about privacy as being nothing but attention grabbers.

    Chet

  11. #11
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    I believe you're are the one that passed judgement on my attitude, but I must say I don't mind and I would like to apologize if I've offended you.

    So let me clear up the confusion: the propoganda is that about the extent of what the information is used for. It does track who is buying and of course what they are buying but who exactly is it that sits their and puts a purchase to an IP address and then makes assumptions to who the user is? That is what I mean by the propoganda.

    Putting consumers concerns is not last and I would never declare it that way. Best practices are a must in any industry regardless of the product you sell. If you were to ask me about the confusion at first then we probably wouldn't be sitting here bickering like school children. Maybe we should just wait till someone breaks us up LOL.

    Oh and about the belittlement - Do you hesitate to you make purchases on line?

    Tony

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCafaro
    the propoganda is that about the extent of what the information is used for. It does track who is buying and of course what they are buying but who exactly is it that sits their and puts a purchase to an IP address and then makes assumptions to who the user is? That is what I mean by the propoganda.
    So your position is that privacy advocates are exaggerating the use (and misuse and abuse) of personal data on the internet mostly as propanganda to further their position / cause?

  13. #13
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    Without calling anyone a kook, it's important to point out that any amount of consumer abuse by any form of advertising medium is too much.

    The fact that the internet makes it so much easier to devour very confidential consumer information only magifies the problem

    When thinking about how the FTC will eventually respond to this, I think we need to think like a government agency. They ban things, they don't "fix" them.

    Look at peanuts on airplanes. How many folks are actually allergic? The solution the Feds came up with? No more peanuts.

    I live by the Niagara Gorge. Thousands of people have rock climbed there over the years. Then one was seriously injured. They immediately banned all climbing in the gorge.

    So Tony, while you are right in part that some consumer advocacy will distort statistics to "prove" their point, it's the responsibility of honest marketers to work towards eliminating our nefarious brethren ourselves, because you DO NOT WANT the Feds to do it for you. Because they will throw the baby out with the bath water.
    Kevin Webster
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  14. #14
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    Yes Donuts that is the picture I was trying to paint. "I'm not a very good painter"

    Noth you are right about being responsible for monitoring our own programs and keeping the industry in line before gov't regulation does it for us. It will be a long journey but honesty and moral will win.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCafaro

    So let me clear up the confusion: the propoganda is that about the extent of what the information is used for. It does track who is buying and of course what they are buying but who exactly is it that sits their and puts a purchase to an IP address and then makes assumptions to who the user is? That is what I mean by the propoganda.
    Tony, that "propaganda" is exactly the technology doubleclick developed and then had to pull after consumer backlash. But I guess all those consumers were just kookie!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCafaro
    Oh and about the belittlement - Do you hesitate to you make purchases on line?
    This is so stupid as to not be worth a reply.

    Amazing that a man from a company that deals in the exact thing being discussed, can be so ignorant of it... amazing I tell you! Amazing!

    Chet

  16. #16
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuts
    So your position is that privacy advocates are exaggerating the use (and misuse and abuse) of personal data on the internet mostly as propanganda to further their position / cause?
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCafaro
    Yes Donuts that is the picture I was trying to paint.
    Take a look at this presentation that shows how one company uses this kind of data...

    go: http://www.absoluteroi.com
    then click the "How We Do It" link

    it's a timed presentation, watch the entire thing...

    then tell me how you feel.

  17. #17
    Affiliate Manager MINDsprinter's Avatar
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    As always, Donuts, you know how to make a point.
    Jason Rosenbaum
    Affiliate Manager
    MINDsprinting

  18. #18
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    "Lead sold for upsell"

  19. #19
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    the neighbor stuff bothered me the most...

    i imagine this telemarketer calling my next door neighbor and saying...

    do you know Roger next door, he just bought directv, go over and knock and ask him how his hd family pack is doing, 7 other people on your street have also bought it... you know, Roger next door lost his job a month ago and he still decided to buy it, that's how good it is! my system tells me your mom in Spokane also has this same deal. obviously, it's something you want Christine. (then shuts up and goes for the silent close.)

  20. #20
    Member TonyCafaro's Avatar
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    Well Donuts that's pretty scary!!!!!

    The worst part of all that is leads like that are replicated and sold over and over again. One company exhausts leads and re-sells them. I guess maybe I'm nieve to stuff like this because I never really get soliciting mail and phone calls. Now that you've pointed out that sight I've seen the roadside assurance signups on sights I've come across while surfing the web. WOW what a nasty Trickly down effect.

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