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  1. #1
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    I'm just curious about something because I seem to be missing the logic. Not looking sh*t stirring...just some answers on what I believe are valid comments.

    After 9/11 people started trashing Bush saying he knew that 9/11 was coming and did absolutely nothing to stop it. Unfortunately, Clinton did not face the same criticism during his tenure, even though there were several terrorist attacks against Americans during that time.

    People rose up against Bush...the Headlines screamed 'What Did Bush Know', and even 'Bush Knew!!!'. It is said that the bush administration had all this knowledge about the impending attack and ignored it.

    Now...Lets go back to several months before 9/11...What if Bush stood up and said. "We have knowledge of an impending attack against the U.S. There are terrorist camps located within Afghanistan that endanger not only America but the world as a whole." Would the world and the U.N have supported the U.S going into Afghanistan and stopping Al-Queda before the 9/11 attack?

    Imagine the outrage...the big bully U.S has no proof that terrorists will crash planes into building killing thousands...all the US wants to do is go in and murder Afghan children...the bunch of murderers that we are. Would all of you have supported military action in Afghanistan prior to 9/11...or prefered to have had a 'smoking gun' before action was taken?

    What did Bush know and why didn't he do something about it?

    So now, here we are with Iraq. Not only does the U.S have information about Chemical and Biological weapons, but the world has this same information as well. Some on this board say that Powell made an ass of himself showing the U.N what proof the U.S had. IMO, there was a lot of proof. We saw airplanes that could spray chemicals...in fact, the video was of the Iraqi military training for this very thing. We've seen pictures of what are believed to mobile labs...these labs are exiting the back door while the inspectors are coming in the front door. We've seen other facilities where the topsoil had been removed to prevent any detection. The list goes on...the US presented its evidence to the U.N.

    The U.S. also made clear that it was up to the UN to do something about it. Resolution after resolution had been passed...and all were broken by Iraq. The UN did nothing. The countries that were against the war all had a vested interest in Iraq...and a war would bring things to light for the world to see.

    We are now learning about contracts that France had with Iraq worth billions. If you recall, it was the U.N. that put the sanctions in place, even though the world likes to say it is U.S sanctions. France violated the U.N rules by going against those very sanctions put in place by the U.N. Again, I ask, where is the outrage? Those of you that say the U.S broke U.N rules by going to war...where were you when France was breaking the rules?

    After the first Gulf War when inspectors were still in Iraq, some inspectors complained that french inspectors would 'tip-off' the Iraqis about where the team was headed. Why? Because we learned that France had a vested interest in the U.N finding nothing...

    Resolutions passed by the U.N clearly stated that the U.N had the right to go back into Iraq if Iraq did not meet the demands of the U.N.
    Those of you who doubt me, take a moment to look over the Resolutions passed by the U.N.
    http://www.un.org/documents/scres.htm

    Pay particular attention to those Resolutions passed by the U.N in 1990 and 1991. You will soon realize that the U.N failed to do its job as described. The U.S being a nation in the U.N. has the responsibility to act. In fact, ALL nations in the U.N have the responsibility to act. Again, those that opposed it are those same countries that have a vested interest in the Hussein Regime to stay in place. This coupled by the fact that the world is now learning this now that the war has started.
    For a country that wants nothing to do with the war, France is quick to try and take part of a post Hussein regime....why is that?

    I should not single out france since Germany and Russia also went against the same U.N sanctions. Where is your outrage?

    We are shown pictures of Iraqi soldiers dead in a ditch...and it is pointed out that there was a white flag in the ditch. Ahh...the US murderers have done it again...killing people that are surrendering and pleading for their lives. We are now learning that those same people waving the white flag ambushed coalition soldiers in one of the bloodiest battles of the war. Where is your outrage at those tactics.

    Unfortunately, the Iraqi military knows that the U.S military has a soft spot for white flags and civilians....we won't kill neither. So, their response is to dress as civilians and wave white flags and ambush the coalition forces.
    I have yet to see a U.S soldier holding a dead Iraqi soldiers head, grinning ear to ear and posing for the TV cameras. Would you be outraged if you saw that? If so, then why aren't you outraged by the tape released by Al-Jazeer. For those of you in the U.S that didn't get to see the tape, there were scenes just like that.

    Iraq claims it has absolutely no weapons of mass destruction. It also had no missiles that could fly over 90 miles. Again, this was a U.N rule, not a U.S rule. How quickly we learn that the inspections were failing the second we learned of Scud launches. Nobody has been able to explain to me how Iraq can launch weapons that it never had. What about the inspectors who found the warheads that were designed to deliver chemical and biological payloads. We were told,'Nothing the to worry about since Iraq has no missiles that could launch those warheads' Where is your outrage now that you know Iraq can deliver those payloads?

    We have all become familiar with the scene of the Iraqi citizen smacking the poster of Saddam with his shoe. Little do you realize that a week ago, that same person would have been executed for doing just that. Did you know that in Iraq, you can be executed just for distributing political fliers? Where is your outrage? This is also against the U.N rules...why isn't the UN acting, and where is your outrage for the U.N?

    Why are you not concerned that Al-Queda has training camps in Iraq. Why are you not concerned that at least one of these camps distributes ricin to terrorists...Strange that ricin is now showing up in other parts of the world

    So...again I ask....What did Bush know? There is outrage that Bush knew about 9/11 and did nothing. The moment he does something, those same people are protesting that he is actually doing something.

    I do not understand the logic that Bush is expected to do something to protect Americans, yet you are outraged the moment he does? Can you honestly tell me you would have supported Bush going after Al-Queda prior to 9/11...if he had, you would never have had your 'smoking gun' that you love so much.

    I become outraged at some of the comments here...I become doubly outraged that US soldiers are willing to die for you so you can make those same comments....and that is not just for US citizens, but the world abroad. US soldiers have died for you, and will continue to die for you no matter where you live.

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    [This message was edited by TH Media on March 24, 2003 at 09:19 AM.]

  2. #2
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    Well said Tom!
    Cazzi

  3. #3
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Excellent post, well said.

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Tom, that is probably one of the best posts on this subject that I've seen.

    Thank you for reminding all of us that there's two sides to every story, and a lot of the story hasn't been revealed as of yet.



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  5. #5
    Full Member tmd5's Avatar
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    Well said Tom. An excellent post.

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  6. #6
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Rusia selling arms to Iraq...


    Hmmm.....

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  7. #7
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Tom you expressed your anger and disgust as a citizen of the world confronted by real threats of terrorism very well. Some posting here would harbor and support those very same murdering terrorists if given the opportunity. They are dangerious and reject that their Religious zeliots aren't allowed to roam the world freely to carry on a Jehad. I can easily forgive the peace-nics and liberals and even the Bush bashers as they of no real consequence before or after 9/11. They wouldn't defend themselves or their neighbors or even man an ambulance in a War zone as they wish to maintain the status quo. They are political sheep who find it easier to bury their heads in the sand and ignor the facts feeling it their duty to carry a peace-nic banner that condones murder by inaction.

    Pure fact. Russia & France has looked the other way as their countrymen, within the last year, has provided Saddam with the arms -munitions- missles, and radar jamming systems leading to the killing of Collition forces today. GWB just called Russia to task for this today and a formal complaint is being filed at the willi-nilly UN.

    I see war scene videos today where Saddams soldiers who surrendered or were dressed as civilians this weekend now are armed with machine guns and RPG's attacking our forces from behind. Our sensititities to civilian casualities or allowing the non-die hard Iraq soldiers to just walk away from the battle zones will cease to be SOP. I vividly recall when the enemy ruses like these in VietNam led to a huge jump in our troops casualities we were forced to steps to protect our butts in hostile territories.

    Seems now the Iraqis are using Palistinian ruses by sending local Ambulances to where their forces are shooting at us from buildings and hauling off the irregular enemy troops. LOL as the Brits wised up and shot the tires out of the ambulances and made the civilian occupants exit and get on the ground. All except the driver turned out to have Iraqi uniforms and hand guns under civilian outer clothing.

    Look for the civilian casualty count sore as Saddam's goon squads start using women and children as human shields and mix suicide bombers within their ranks. Al-Jezeeri wants some more PR film footage showing a few dead Americans soldiers surrounded by the bodies of blown up Iraqi women and children. Anything to enrage the Arab Street. I've fought similar animals before who have no regard for human lives. If this drags on into urban warfare it will get real ugly.

    Peace-nics and democrat liberals best hope our commanders have some plan and way to drop the 101st AirBorne force between Bagdad and the Iraqi Republican Guard forces in the south. This Pincer movement will trap most the Iraq force where our airforce can deal with them. This will require the Iraqi troops believing their leaders BS into thinking our forces are bogged down and trapped in a southern area and pooring troops out of Bagdad to seal our fate. Slowing down our Colliation Forces and moving some Kuwait bases north makes sense as well as building out one of those Western Iraq airbases we captured for close support aircraft like the C-130 Gunships and A-10's.

    The war will be going well when the Al-Jezeeri channel concentrates airtime on Arab mass demonstrations, Bush bashing and UN assistance more than trying to spin Iraqi battlefront victories.

    Charlie ...

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  8. #8
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    bravo Tom!!!

    and thank you!!

    Vicki

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  9. #9
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    Thank you, Tom. Best post I have read yet.

  10. #10
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    Very well said Tom. Does seem like a bit of commen sense reasoning doesn't it? Unfortunately, politics are great for mudding the picture. And history should never be looked at in a snapshot, but as a continous event and in totality. Afterall that is the way life is....an ongoing continous event.

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  11. #11
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    Tom,

    Very good post!

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  12. #12
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    A brilliant post Tom.

    Brilliant I just hope some of the other goons that are posting on these forums take the time to read and digest

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    Gordon
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  13. #13
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Tom you are a very fluent writter and very good at making the point stick. Very well said!!!

  14. #14
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    great points made in this thread!
    my 2c about the protestors... I don't think most of them realize that their actions are costing their cities serious money, not to mention lowering morale. San Francisco alone is spending around $900k per day to keep them under control... (reported locally)
    So, their common argument of help at home before abroad loses ground when the money they're costing the local governments could have been used to feed, clothe, or provide shelter for homeless, etc...

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    Mighty fine.

    Appaerntly they want to see us gassed or nuked before we take preventative measures.

    The protesters have done little other than bolster morale for the regime's troops.

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