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November 6th, 2007, 11:13 PM #1Unbelievable
This one boils my blood:
November 6th, 2007, 11:20 PM #2
I could not help remember by dad's saga when I read the part about the doctor being out of town when the results came back. My dad had a bunch of tests done because of stomach problems and assumed when he did hear back from his doctor after 10 days that everything was okay. Well, quite the contrary as when he called in on the 10th day they told him the office somehow forgot to call him to tell him he had cancer (of which he later died of). Sad state of affairs when the person just frankly no longer exists and it's more about the process that the various offices are concerned about.Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
7 Days A Week Marketing
November 7th, 2007, 01:21 AM #3
Hmmm. IF it is true then it is very hateful.
But... that is a very fanatical opinionated one sided blog posting. And on your own blog your can say anything you want. True or otherwise.
November 7th, 2007, 02:29 AM #4
Then again, there are people who are so dogmatic that they refuse to change their mind even if the evidence is screaming in their face and banging on their head with a baseball bat. So, it might as well be true.
Last edited by reneton; November 7th, 2007 at 02:30 AM. Reason: grammar
November 7th, 2007, 06:56 AM #5
This is something that needs to be investigated further and exposed if it actually is as bad as it sounds in the article.This World is Not My Home
We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993
November 7th, 2007, 08:09 AM #6
I agree with others that the article did sound a little biased and sensational. BUT...
Things like this happen all the time. Cancer is big business and many doctors don't want other methods to interfere with their livelihood. I had cancer back in 2001 and my brother's boyfriend currently has cancer for the third time in his life and he is only 23 years old (he has always done chemo). I tell the following to anyone who will listen.
There is a foundation called Life Force Hospitals that is located in countries like Mexico, Canada, and throughout Europe. They have a 75% success rate for those who have been TERMINALLY DIAGNOSED in the U.S. There was even a big story a while back when an oncologist from the States who actually went there instead of doing the chemo he suggests to all of his patients. I believe he ended up having his license revoked if I remember the story correctly.
Doctors are not allowed to even talk about it in the states. My husband's friend is currently battling cancer and when he asked his doctor about it, he was told by the doctor that he was aware of the centers but was not allowed to talk about them.
It's pretty sad. I believe their home page is chemo.net although it has nothing to do with chemo- they use that url in the hopes that people who think chemo is the only way will find them during a web search.
All chemo does is kill the good along with the bad. It reminds me of the "bleeding" technique used during the middle ages. Hey, let's drain out the blood and kill the disease. Hey, let's fry your body to kill the disease. Same principle. You kill the body's natural defenses in order to kill the ailment. Stupid? Yes.
If my son ever got sick, I wouldn't hesitate to take him elsewhere for treatment even if it meant being arrested. It seems that other countries where there is socialized medicine are actually interested in curing the patient while oncologists in the States are more interested in making a business out of it and running up bills.
Sorry to sound like a conspiracy theorist and I hope this comment doesn't piss anyone off here but it does anger me.
November 7th, 2007, 10:58 AM #7
I have an acquaintance who did hard time for importing a drug from Canada which has a pretty high efficacy rate for stopping cancer spread and actually partially curing it (Don't ask me for more details... I'm not a subject matter expert on this at all).
So he was trying to help people, but int the end the FDA had him jailed.
On the surface, he was breaking the law, without question. But it's the politics behind what keeps that drug illegal in the States that's the real crime here.
November 7th, 2007, 11:43 AM #8Originally Posted by Noth
This is an incredible abuse of "power" and a huge issue, not just in the medical community but in the government of "WE, the PEOPLE" - where along the way have we given up our CIVIL RIGHTS to state and medical agencies?!!
This story makes me sick. This type of CRIMINAL abuse of power has to be stopped. It's already alarming, it will only get much worse if we allow it.
It is not at all "conspiracy theories" - it's fact and putting blinders on to hide the ugly truth will allow this insanity to grow and destroy us.
November 7th, 2007, 11:58 AM #9
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I don't understand the reaction here.
A mom refused to follow her son's doctor's advice, and insisted on "holistic treatment" of her son's malignant cancer. Concerned for the health of the child, the doctor referred the case to Child Protective Services, which apparently intervened.
I can't tell from the blog posting what "really" happened -- the implication is that the mother resisted having her 17-year-old son "taken" or "treated," and was arrested for this. But the blog post "leaves out just enough" so that the claims cannot be confirmed.
I'm usually pretty good at unearthing additional information about cases like this, but in this case the ONLY information I can find reported are extremely biased blog posts; I cannot find ANY credible report about this case, even after I assumed that the names were changed or that a newspaper article wouldn't use the real name of a minor. I cannot find any information that would suggest that any of the facts stated in the blog posts are true.
I'm not disagreeing with some of the statements or assumptions; it seems likely that the blog post is describing a real case, and perhaps many of the facts are accurately reported. I'm just very skeptical after finding NO verification. In the situation described (doctor says that child suffers from cancer which will be fatal if not treated with conventional surgery, and mother refuses and instead seeks "holistic" treatment, apparently without the endorsement of any medical doctor), I would certainly expect CPS to intervene and (at least) bring the case before a judge, who could evaluate the competing claims and make a ruling. If an oncologist testifies that (1) the child will almost certainly die without surgical treatment, and (2) the surgery has a strong likelihood of treating the medical condition, AND in the absence of any credible expert testimony supporting the mother, I would expect the judge to order the surgery to proceed. If the mother or son requested, I would expect the judge to order a consultation with a second oncologist, and to listen to arguments by any other medical practioner (licensed or not).
The mother's claim is that she healed her son with holistic treatment, apparently in a matter of a few days. While that's possible, it's not a very credible claim. (If there is now no sign of cancer, the more likely explanation is that the original lab test was incorrect; if the mother is claiming that her son is healed despite multiple subsequent lab tests showing malignant cancer, then she sounds delusional.)
When the blog states that the mother was placed in "maximum-security solitary confinement," I suspect that she was separated from other prisoners because of concerns that they might harm her, and perhaps placed on "suicide watch" or sent for a "mental health evaluation," if she was acting irrationally or refused to calm down.
As I was reading the blog post, some of the more "extreme" claims jumped out at me as demonstrating an "irrational hatred" of CPS. Specifically, the claim that CPS employees receive a "bonus" for each child they remove from a parent's care is absolutely untrue -- although I assume that a CPS worker might be paid overtime or given "comp time off" for time spent on a case where urgent action is taken. I don't love CPS -- as an attorney, I've handled cases where CPS workers acted improperly (in my opinion) and I've also seen judges unfairly accept false claims if the CPS worker believes them.
But this blog post is so biased and hateful that there is no reason for me to believe ANYTHING in it, and since I am unable to find ANY OTHER REPORT about this case, I suspect that most of these claims are fabricated, or distorted irrationally.
November 7th, 2007, 12:10 PM #10But this blog post is so biased and hateful that there is no reason for me to believe ANYTHING in it, and since I am unable to find ANY OTHER REPORT about this case, I suspect that most of these claims are fabricated, or distorted irrationally.
Online Marketing Manager, ethicalDeal.com
November 7th, 2007, 12:19 PM #11
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This intrigued me enough that I did a bit more research, and it appears that the "angryscientist" blog post was copied from the "black salve info" web site (http://blacksalveinfo.com/blog/2007/...or-curing.html). This site is run by someone named "Rick" (possibly "Rick Fossier," the name in the WHOIS registration data for the blacksalveinfo.com domain). His information may be related to claims in a "press release" from "Thomas Von Ohlen -- Clinical Nutritionist" (http://www.expertclick.com/NewsRelea...etail&ID=18666).
The story is basically being "passed around" by people who want to believe it, but I can find no way to verify any of the underlying claims.
Each of these reports identifies the source as "Gary Null," a nutritional-supplement promoter, whose web site contains no reference to this story, and each report further claims that Mr. Null attributed the information to "Ron Miller," who is identified as an "attendee" at a convention of the "Cancer Control Society" (whose web site also contains no information about this, and does not identify "Ron Miller" as someone affiliated with the organization).
This is starting to have all the signs of an "urban legend."
November 7th, 2007, 12:31 PM #12
What a sad state of affairs our health care system has blossomed into.
My father's best friend was diagnosed with stage 4 liver cancer. The Doctors told him that he had about 6 months left to live and that the disease was to far along within his body for any treatment that they could offer him. So they pretty much gave him a death sentence.
He would not accept what the doctors were telling him, and decided to take matters into his own hands. He enrolled in a place(http://www.shareguide.com/Kushi.html) that taught and practiced holistic healing. He left his three kids and wife for four months to move to Florida and live here. They immediately started him on the Macrobiotic diet. When he came back to Mass he immediately scheduled a scan of his liver. low and behold every tumor that was in his liver, esophogas, and colon was GONE. There was absolutely no trace of it in his entire body. He went from being pronounced dead by the Doctors at Mass general Hospital, to living a healthy long life.
There is something seriously wrong with a situation like this. The Doctors would not recommend an alternative healing method. They told him he was out of luck. There is no place for it in a world of common sense.
Last edited by Brent E.; November 7th, 2007 at 12:55 PM.Brent Elias
"God Grant That Men Of Principle, Shall Be Our Principle Men" - Thomas Jefferson
November 7th, 2007, 12:40 PM #13
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OK, now this gets even more interesting. I noticed on Gary Null's web site, that he provides podcasts of his radio program through iTunes, so I went ahead and found his podcast from September 12.
I can't find any mention in that podcast of ANYTHING mentioned in the various copies of the blog post nor the press release.
So the only cited source for this story doesn't appear to be the actual source at all.
Again, I don't know if the story is fabricated, but it's looking less and less "real." If you read through the comments on the angryscientist web blog, it seems clear that they have also attempted without success to verify the story.
Of course, even if the entire blog post were a fabrication, it wouldn't take away the impact of Brent's example.
November 7th, 2007, 01:36 PM #14
November 7th, 2007, 07:15 PM #15
I love having access to Mark's brain. :-)
Thank you for taking the time to delve deeper, Mark and for wrapping your head around this situation.
And as Greg said:
"If the story is true, it's horrible. If someone made it up, it is equally horrible. It's difficult to tell either way."
BTW, good link finds Greg. :-)
Alternative medicine is an issue very close to my heart and stories like this one are common in the niche. Downright scary stuff if it is, indeed a true story and equally scary if someone made it up to promote alternative remedies because then it makes alternative treatment look foolish, which it certainly is not.
Brent, your story and comment are what really matter here:
"There is something seriously wrong with a situation like this. The Doctors would not recommend an alternative healing method. They told him he was out of luck. There is no place for it in a world of common sense."
Stories like this are what get people who know alternative remedies work riled up, spitting mad and ready to take on the fight.
I am also incredibly sensitive to parental rights and education when it comes to the heath and well-being of our children. If the story of Chad Jessop is in any way true, I feel it needs to be examined and any other such incidences stopped at all costs.