Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39
  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    Ex Performics Employees as our competitors!
    I am suprised no one has mentioned this yet. I just got back from Ad:Tech and catching up on my reading:

    http://www.revenews.com/double-cowgirl.html

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador newestuser's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 14th, 2007
    Posts
    505
    They know who the top performers are in that category, and can mimick those sites, can use their inside info to get the best coupons and private offers.. Something does not seem legit about that.
    Maybe I should get a job at performics for a month or so, learn all about what the best competitors are doing, and then be able to increase my earnings.

  3. #3
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 25th, 2006
    Location
    Go Daddy
    Posts
    1,109
    I'm surprised more people haven't commented.

    Talk about unethical! But then again I could see how someone could replace unethical with enterprising.

  4. #4
    Best New ABW Member 2007 sfcom's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 9th, 2007
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,705
    Well, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There has to be countless others in those positions at the top companies that share info with friends and family. That is an easy way around the fact that they can't be an affiliate and keep their job with P, LS, or CJ. No biggie...just pass the secret #s on to someone who gives them a kickback on the profits.

    These companies don't say "We will also be checking to see if anyone within a 5 mile radius of your home is an affiliate also and if they are, we will be auditing their account." It is easy to see where and how the double dipping may occur. I can assure you that the ones who have decided to go public as affiliate marketers are indeed only the problems who have exposed themselves. It could very well be that the majority of the problems are still hidden and have access to the proprietary data everyday.

    -sfcom

  5. #5
    The Seal of Aproval rematt's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 19th, 2006
    Location
    The Windy City
    Posts
    4,140
    As much as it pisses me off that the "Cowgirls" had the audacity and total lack of ethics to appropriate what should be considered proprietary information, it pisses me off more that Performics allowed this to happen by not having an NDA in place.

    From the Performics Privacy Policy (effective 10/15/2007) :

    Security

    We have implemented reasonable security measures in order to protect information from loss, misuse and unauthorized access, disclosure, alteration or destruction. Our employees are made aware of, and are accountable for compliance with, these procedures.
    Were these "reasonable security measures" in place at the time the "Cowgirls" had access to affiliate information and if so what penalties were in place to force employee accountability? Or was this clause put in place after they were aware of the misappropriation of information?

    Either way, Performics is at fault. After almost 30 years in the computer industry I can't think of a single company that I've ever worked for that didn't require an NDA and non-compete agreement. The fact that Performics didn't feel that affiliate data, processes and techniques aren't important enough to protect in this way borders on criminal negligence.

    And while what Sfcom says is true that they could easily pass this information on, the lack of an NDA gives an unscrupulous employee no reason not to.

    -rematt
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Richard Nixon

  6. #6
    Grandma broke her coccyx! Uncle Rico's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 8th, 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,238
    Does anyone know where Performics posts online jobs?

  7. #7
    Affiliate Manager Alan Hamilton's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 13th, 2006
    Location
    Colorado / Florida
    Posts
    4,411
    Quote Originally Posted by rematt
    Either way, Performics is at fault.
    For the most part I agree with the above. Performics should have a strict NDA in place. Things like the cowgirls have pulled necessitate it. However, as a business owner for many years, I can also see where Performics (perhaps naively) presumed / optimistically / unfortunately (wanted to give the benefit of the doubt) that employees would be honorable. We can all agree that NDA's / NCA's would not be necessary if people would simply honor proprietary rights.

    Is it foolhardy for an employer to expect that employees will be ethical and abide by company guidelines? Perhaps it is. That is why NDA's are now widespread. On the other hand, is it pathetic that people (who accept positions with a company from which they derive an income) are sometimes not ethical, loyal or honest with their employers? Yep.

    Shame on The Cowgirls - and a lesson learned by Performics!
    Join the Spicy Aprons Affiliate program on ShareASale Visit us on Facebook www.facebook.com/spicyaprons Follow us on Twitter @Spicyaprons

  8. #8
    Internet Cowboy
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,662
    I see no difference in this and in an affiliate manager being an affiliate on the side. Both are privy to private and confidential information.

  9. #9
    Member affmark98's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 11th, 2007
    Posts
    82
    My question is how do they advertise their sites. Regardless, if they stole this inside information if they cannot market their web sites and make a profit then they will not be successful.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2007
    Posts
    1,470
    Quote Originally Posted by affmark98
    My question is how do they advertise their sites. Regardless, if they stole this inside information if they cannot market their web sites and make a profit then they will not be successful.
    Good Point. Both QuantCast and Alexa shows that that site has virtually no traffic. Perhaps that CowGirl is regretting coming out of a paycheck mode

    However, from an ethical and legal stand point, it is quite disturbing to see a network rep involved this way with misappropriation of confidential information and possible violations of NDA and Non-Compete agreements.

    I think all networks should take the cue from Performics and disable this publisher from their networks. If we all contact our reps at CJ, LS, SaS and express our dissatisfaction that leads to some positive action by the networks, then that may be the end of this CowGirl act.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2007
    Posts
    1,470
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleScooter
    I see no difference in this and in an affiliate manager being an affiliate on the side. Both are privy to private and confidential information.
    Typically an AM (OPM or Merchant AM) is privy to the information on a few programs that they manage. And a network rep has access to whole lot more of information.

    I would not like an AM who is also competing with you on the same program that they manage too.

    If an AM is an affiliate of some other program (that they do not manage), it is usually less of a concern.

    I strongly recommend that SaS not show the referring URL as most of the merchants or AMs or OPMs working with SaS are also competing affiliates and showing the referring URLs of affiliates could be providing too much information to OPMs / AMs who may be fellow competing affiliates.

    See the thread I opened on this Subject http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=92619 some time back ...

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    4,423
    I agree with Uncle Scooter. Be one thing, if you are more, you are as bad as a merchant on multiple networks. I will avoid you like the plague. And he just pointed to one example, there are whole major OPMs that seem to be staffed with nothing but affiliates looking to glean information.

    Chet

  13. #13
    Antisocial Media Expert ProWebAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 25th, 2006
    Location
    Go Daddy
    Posts
    1,109
    Quote Originally Posted by redtagdeals

    I would not like an AM who is also competing with you on the same program that they manage too.

    If an AM is an affiliate of some other program (that they do not manage), it is usually less of a concern.
    They could still be taking ideas. "Ooo a site like that would be great, let me find another merchant that sells the same thing." or "Let me use this idea but in this niche instead of that one."

    If that's fair then everybody show me your sites so I can generate some ideas.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,603
    FlamingoWorld,

    Tell us how many 'ex-affiliate managers' have you hired to work and give 'insight' to your business?

    Now tell us what difference being an network employee or an affiliate manager have in regards to being able to have the access to same information affiliates, as UncleScooter pointed out.
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; November 8th, 2007 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Per mutual agreement
    SomethingStore.com - Surprise and Delight!

  15. #15
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Winter Park, FL
    Posts
    6,930
    Performics themselves operate affiliate sites and are also involved in many other tactics that have been exposed here at ABW. Two ex-employees breaking away to become affiliates are the least of our Performics related worries.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Bay
    FlamingoWorld,

    Tell us how many 'ex-affiliate managers' have you hired to work and give 'insight' to your business?

    Now tell us what difference being an network employee or an affiliate manager have in regards to being able to have the access to same information affiliates, as UncleScooter pointed out.
    WTF is your problem? Did I say anything? All I did was post the article in case others hadn't read it, I thought people here would be interested. Leave me the F alone.

    And my employees don't give me information about other affiliates as they did have contracts with their previous employers. I didn't hire them because they were affiliate managers, I hired them because I had known them for years, they were good friends of mine and I knew I could trust them. They don't give me "insight" they don't even do things related to their previous jobs for me.
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; November 8th, 2007 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Removed quoted text that has been removed per mutual agreement

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,603
    "Just pointing to an article". Yeah, right! Like we were born yesterday.

    "And my employees don't give me information about other affiliates as they did have contracts with their previous employers. I didn't hire them because they were affiliate managers, I hired them because I had known them for years, they were good friends of mine and I knew I could trust them. They don't give me "insight" they don't even do things related to their previous jobs for me."

    So, what's wrong with ex-performics employees working as affiliates, or "competitors!" ?
    SomethingStore.com - Surprise and Delight!

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    1,603
    For the record, I think anybody can be an affiliate, as a side business or as full-time. Affiliate managers, OPMs, network employees.

    As long as the rules are same and applied to everyone fairly, there is no problem.
    SomethingStore.com - Surprise and Delight!

  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    Whoa doggie ...

    SamBay that attack was completely uncalled for - all she did was post a link.

    Basta.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  20. #20
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    I agree with Scooter and Chet.

    Shoot imagine all the stuff Crawford knows ... hmmmm
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2007
    Posts
    1,470
    Quote Originally Posted by ProWebAddict
    "Ooo a site like that would be great, let me find another merchant that sells the same thing." or "Let me use this idea but in this niche instead of that one."
    That is the reason that SaS should not expose the referring URLs. I am not sure if any other network does pass on the referring URL.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2007
    Posts
    1,470
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Bay
    FlamingoWorld,
    Tell us how many 'ex-affiliate managers' have you hired to work and give 'insight' to your business?
    Classic Sam Bay post.

    All this tells me only one thing .. Don't trust any AM that you work with sensitive information. The information could somehow be leaked out --> AM using it self, AM to a buddy, AM to new employer etc...

    I will be making changes so that the referring URL is not passed to SaS system now. And I will stop working with SaS merchants who seem to be asking for the referring URLs as the information could be misused
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; November 8th, 2007 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Removed quoted text that has been removed per mutual agreement

  23. #23
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,162
    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    I agree with Scooter and Chet.

    Shoot imagine all the stuff Crawford knows ... hmmmm
    Luckily for everyone here, I have short term memory loss.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

    Give me a minute before I post again

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    LMAO, there ya go Todd thought you fell of the face of the earth for a while there.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  25. #25
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    2,162
    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    LMAO, there ya go Todd thought you fell of the face of the earth for a while there.
    I am still in California sitting on the edge of the earth waiting to fall off. You never know where or when I'll pop up.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

    Give me a minute before I post again

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. GAN Employees you have no idea what's going on do you
    By shimmy in forum Google Affiliate Network - GAN
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 19th, 2009, 06:02 PM
  2. Unexpected Event for employees.
    By Bob Lawrence in forum Virtual Family and Off-Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: December 2nd, 2008, 09:56 AM
  3. The Ignorant Employees at Performics
    By shimmy in forum Google Affiliate Network - GAN
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: August 30th, 2007, 07:58 PM
  4. LinkShare Employees with Affiliate Sites?
    By Ron Bechdolt in forum Rakuten LinkShare - LS
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 8th, 2005, 06:29 PM
  5. Google Employees Party
    By johnniebry in forum Search Engine Optimization
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: September 23rd, 2002, 08:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •