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  1. #1
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    WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

    Yesterday, in the Azores, Tony Blair and George Bush went on at great length about the poor, suffering, people of Iraq, and why it was necessary to risk the lives of our husbands, fathers, and sons, to deal with the cruel tyrant in charge of that nation. Yet over the last few weeks, the Israeli forces running amok in Gaza and the West Bank have been killing not only Palestinians, but never careful of their targets, killed Israeli settlers, some of their own troops, and yesterday, ran over an American woman with a bulldozer, twice.

    And so far, not a word of protest from the US Government which only seems to find concern for cruelty against humans in regions that have a great deal of oil. Not only has the US Government failed in its self-proclaimed task of punishing those who kill Americans, the US Government continues to send billions and billions of your tax dollars to pay for the guns, bullets helicopters, rockets, flechette rounds, and yes, the bulldozers.

    This non-reaction to the death of Rachel Corrie only underscores that concern for human rights is just a mask worn by the US Government in their lust for conquest and oil, and that the US Government would just as easily approve of killing the people of Iraq to attain their real objective.


    "The girl, Rachel Corey [sic], 23 years old from the state of Washington, was killed while she was trying to prevent Israeli army bulldozers from destroying a Palestinian home. Other foreigners who were with her said the driver of the bulldozer was aware that Rachel was there, and continued to destroy the house. Initially he dropped sand and other heavy debris on her, then the bulldozer pushed her to the ground where it proceeded to drive over her, fracturing both of her arms, legs and skull. She was transferred to hospital, where she later died. Another foreigner was also injured in the attack and has been hospitalized - at this stage his nationality is unknown.(15 March 2003)"


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    [This message was edited by DreamMaster on March 17, 2003 at 04:59 PM.]

  2. #2
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Sheet, she stood in the way of the bulldozer!

    To quote from the article you linked to:

    "Rachel was alone in front of the house as we were trying to get them to stop," Schnabel said. "She waved for the bulldozer to stop and waved. She fell down and the bulldozer kept going. We yelled, 'Stop, stop,' and the bulldozer didn't stop at all."

    Perhaps there is no outrage because if someone does some Clod Thing like put themselves in the way of a military operation, such consequences are to be expected.

    There is a difference between being a caring activist and being an *ss with an Invincibility Complex!

    Our government didn't encourage anyone to stand in the way of a bulldozer run by an angry soldier! That's a far cry from if the Isrealis had gone on a hunting mission against Americans or even made threats. She WILLINGLY put herself in a situation of extreme danger--and knew it! In fact, those "activists" have probably been repeatedly warned to stay away by the State Department.

    There's quite a difference between respecting human rights, and protecting people from their own unsmart actions. Even though it says she "fell down", it must have been darn close for her not to have a chance to roll out of the way.

    The fact that she's only the FIRST activist killed while engaged in such activity, in fact, shows that Isreal has already given them more quarter than I would. Clods who intentionally get in the way of an army that they do not have to engage, and don't expect serious--even fatal--consequences, do not get my sympathy.

    [Edited by Leader]

    -Early in life, I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose honest arrogance and have seen no occasion to change. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

  3. #3
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    Right on Leader!!

    Rick

  4. #4
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    And the #1 reason NOT to stand in front of an Israeli bulldozer is..

  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leader:
    Perhaps there is no outrage because if someone does some Clod Thing like put themselves in the way of a military operation, such consequences are to be expected.

    There is a difference between being a caring activist and being an *ss with an Invincibility Complex!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'll believe in the lack of bias when I hear this same argument used against the Chinese student in Tien Anh Minh Square in 1989.
    And at least the Chinese tank driver stopped.

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  6. #6
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    Oh cmon, now you're saying the murderer driving that thing is right? You don't have a daughter do you?

    Step down, tie her to a post, handcuff her BUT TO RUN OVER HER IS A HEINOUS AND HORRENDOUS COWARD ACT OF MURDER.

    I am outraged - in case anyone out there cares.

    I cried when I saw this, there's a photo of her in Yahoo after the BULLDOZER RAN OVER HER A 2ND TIME, horrendous, sad, a heinous crime of the worst kind.

    There's a God above us, I am sure I will se justice done in this life to all the cowards using military might to inflict pain, murder, destruction and brutal imposition of their beliefs. That includes Bush and Sharon.

    I will pray for this woman and I don't think I will ever forget this, it's been so shocking.

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    yawn...what leader said

  8. #8
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    moneychaser,

    Finally someone with a heart
    I also think it was an act of murder and should be punished in a war trial. Maby now people will start noticing all of the innocent palestinians that die almost everyday crushed by buldosers like that.
    I cried when I saw that picture too and I was going to post that picture but I think it's better to remember her the way she really was.
    It's ironic that the Bush administration goes on about how many pople Saddam has killed but you never hear anyone complain about how many palestinians are killed everyday and are living in total siege. The world is sure heading in the WRONG direction and you know who the one doing the steering is.

    _________________
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    be yourself because someone won't like you. Never give in, never give
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    Open your mind before you open your mouth, for ignorance is the
    downfall of man."

  9. #9
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    The difference is that this bulldozer was doing construction, also the view out of a bull dozer is horrible.

    Chinese tanks were there specifically to fight off those people and in fact did run over numerous people on purpose. This was an accident and it was pretty stupid of that woman in the first place.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Step down, tie her to a post, handcuff her BUT TO RUN OVER HER IS A HEINOUS AND HORRENDOUS COWARD ACT OF MURDER.

    I am outraged - in case anyone out there cares.
    ...horrendous, sad, a heinous crime of the worst kind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Even though she knew the risk and should not have been there - I'd have to agree with you on this one.

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  11. #11
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    It amazes me that any Amercian would show support for a nation who danced in the streets when news of 9/11 came through.

  12. #12
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    When one of the three or four remaining "Human Shields in Baghdad" is killed by a falling bomb, I suspect someone will say "where is the outrage?" "they should not have bombed that place because that person was standing there.

    I am sorry that Rachel was killed, but it was not like she was standing on the street minding her own business. She made her choice. Also, the bulldozer operator has seen many people threaten to stand in his/her way - I guess he should just stop what he is doing?

    Lastly, where is the outrage when a suicide bomber blows up a bus full of Israeli students? Perhaps someone here will say that is okay...

    Here in the US, there was pretty much equal coverage between the one life taken by the bulldozer, and the many lives taken on the Israeli bus.

    Fred

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  13. #13
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    That's exactly why I think Rachel was so important because she was changing the views people have over there of America, even if it was unintentionally. She was trying to show that people over there do care about them and that it's just the govenment that does not.

    _________________
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    downfall of man."

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    What is your politcal agenda?

    Where is your outrage of the 9617 (est) Africans who died of AIDS today?

    Or the 30,000 square miles of oxygen-producing trees that were leveled today.

    Or the 190 who have died from a previously unknown illness for which there is no cure and may affect us all?

    Why do you choose to champion one who stands in front of a bulldozer and (effectively)commits suicide.

    Well, Call me insensitive.

    You are right. I am insensitive. She played her hand and she lost. And there are more important issues out there to worry about.

    ...Unless we share your politcal agenda.

    Doc

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    Alright, I gotta go back to work. Kill them all, wage war, pump oil and let's make some money - what the heck does anyone care, this ain't an important issue OR relevant "Agenda".

    WTF does the US do for trees or AIDS in Africa anyway?

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    Doc Sawyer,

    If you put it that way then we would never stop outraging ourselves about things like the ones you mentioned but the diference in this case is that she was AMERICAN which means she should be more important to other fellow AMERICANS than someone in Africa with aids.
    And I'm sorry but I DO NOT think she comited suicide but instead that the driver comited MURDER in which case there is a big difference.
    Oh yea and why did the US Administration pull out of Kyoto anyway? Is global warming not an importan issue anymore? Oh yea I forgot, gotta save some Iraqui childrem from the Evil Saddam...
    _________________
    "Never settle for mediocre when it could be great. Never be afraid to
    be yourself because someone won't like you. Never give in, never give
    up, freely give out--opinions and beliefs. Share but don't force.
    Open your mind before you open your mouth, for ignorance is the
    downfall of man."

    [This message was edited by DreamMaster on March 17, 2003 at 07:56 PM.]

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    It was an Isreali Army vehicle. I am assuming the operator was under orders to go forward.

    Terrible in the consequences, I agree. But not murder in my mind. Suicide.

    My information is that the US Administration pulled out of Kyoto because the global warming data was under attack from noted meterologists and was going to cost about one quarter of the country's GNP to comply. Because of questionable data and crippling costs, it was a reasonabel decision to pull out of the Kyoto Protocol.

    Doc

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    Maby it wasn't murder but it certainly was NOT suicide. It's like sayng that for example protesters that chain themselves to trees to prevent them from being cut should be chopped to pieces and it's ok because they're comiting suicide? Give me a break!! And by the way that is not suicide by defenition. Comiting suicide is killing yourself not being killed by somebody else. Look it up in the dictionare if you're not sure.
    And your explanation of whay the US Admin pulled out of Kyoto is absolutely unjust. You're sayng that the US that is the most powerfull country in the world and makes up 50% of the worlds economy can't "afford" to cut down on green house gases but other third world countries can? Doesn't that sound a bit ABSURD to you? And by the way the US generates 3/4's of all green house gases and more than 80 countries have agreed to the Kyoto deal. I think that it is beyond any doubt that green house gases are causing global warming and whoever challenges that is a hipocrat. How many deaths do you think all the fluds, dry seasons and storms have already caused. I would say a hellova lot more than Saddam ever has.

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    Open your mind before you open your mouth, for ignorance is the
    downfall of man."

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    DreamMaster - I know as in the other thread you will ignore any post that calls in your logic - but now you are saying we should care more because she is america, but yet what nation someone is from should not make a difference over our invasion of Iraq?

    By the way there was outrage and pain in the US, I guess they forgot to mail you the memo? Do you live in the states? Can you see the reaction? No, it was not overwhelming because she did not behave intelligently. But people still felt sorry for the loss of life - as they normally do.

    If anything this should show you how practical most americans are. They understand the complexities of situations and do not just think USA USA USA. This non-outrage goes against everything you claim american's are.

    I for one, while against the war, are even more against illogical arguments and naive children playing where they do not belong.

    Chet

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    No

    As I said, the Kyoto Protocol is absurd in my opinion an I agree with the current administration's decision to withdraw.


    Doc

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    Chez Noir,

    I think you are making a big cofusion out of my statements. I think it is somewhat important from what nation people are from concerning the Iraqi issue. I'm just sayng that here in the forums it should not be an issue the same as with religion and ethnic origin.
    Yes, I agree that there was somewhat of an outrage about her death but not nearly what it should have been. Remember the incident with North Korea a couple of weeks ago about the US Spy plane that was intercepted by 4 NK jets? Nobody died but they make a hell of a big deal about that incident. I did not see "american run over by buldoser in Israel" making the headlines today.
    "I for one, while against the war, are even more against illogical arguments and naive children playing where they do not belong." --&gt; don't get me started


    Doc Sawyer,
    "As I said, the Kyoto Protocol is absurd in my opinion an I agree with the current administration's decision to withdraw."
    Like I said I think what is absurd is that almost every country has to follow it and the US (see earlier post for reasons) does not.

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  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Doc Sawyer's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Like I said I think what is absurd is that almost every country has to follow it and the US (see earlier post for reasons) does not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    OK, in my opinion: The Kyoto Protocol is very short on science and long on good intent. Many countries rubber-stamped the good intent.

    But, based on inconclusive scientific data, it would be unreasonable for the currebt adminisration to raise taxes by 136% to pay for the tenants of the Kyoto Protocol.

    Just ain't gonna happen...

    If there were a REAL problem with global warming, i would agree with you.

    But there isn't....[imo]

    Doc

    "Half this game is ninety percent mental." -- Phillies Manager, Danny Ozark

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    Doc Sawyer,

    "If there were a REAL problem with global warming, i would agree with you." At leas we agree on something

    I personaly do think that the greenhouse gases (C02, C0, CH4 etc.) coupled with the destructions of the worlds rainforests and the decrease in Plancton caused by the Ozon Hole in the south pole (most of the planction live in the southern hemisphere) is realy increasing the average temperature of earth and causing all kinds of problems one of which is the rise of the sea levels because of the rapidly melting ice in the poles and Glaciars. To my knowlege there is ample scientific evidence that those things are hapening and at a very alarming rate. It is projected that in less than 100 year the average temperature will rise by several degrees. Imagine the consecuences that this is going to have especially in agriculture and in cities that are near sea level.
    Also the temperature in the north pole has rissen so much that by 2005 there will be a now route for ships through the north of Canada that was previously unthinkable because there was a permanent layer of ice but it seems to be shrinking very rapidly. I don't know why you think global warming is not an issue when most unbiased scientific evidence points otherwise.

    _________________
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    be yourself because someone won't like you. Never give in, never give
    up, freely give out--opinions and beliefs. Share but don't force.
    Open your mind before you open your mouth, for ignorance is the
    downfall of man."

    [This message was edited by DreamMaster on March 17, 2003 at 09:57 PM.]

  24. #24
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    This whole post is what all this crap in Iraq continuing on is all about. More of its your fault, not my fault over and over and over again.
    About time people stood up everywhere and instead would say, this was my fault, instead of pointing fingers at someone else just because they haven't the guts to take reponsability on their own. It is always someone else to blame.
    She stood in front of the bulldozer, her fault. Th driver if aware rode over her,his fault. Simplistic no doubt. Common sense is so underused these days.
    Looking at people making it a global issue to hate more, and hate other races, is wrong. No wonder our world is going down the toilet.
    WW

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  25. #25
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    They were playing "chicken". He probably thought she would move. She probably thought he would stop. They were both wrong. And, they were both stupid. "Chicken" is a stupid game to play.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

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