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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    This is getting worse by the minute. This just proves why we must liberate the people of IRAQ from this regime.

    If the Geneva Convention on humanity of captured soldiers means nothing to IRAQ ... it just proves even more why this regime must be taken out.

    Ray Thomas
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  2. #2
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    Pictures just posted on the Internet:

    [WARNING - These pictures are VERY graphic!]
    http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-23-23.htm

    If you need translation of the Al Jazeera web site, I was able to find this site:
    http://tarjim.ajeeb.com/ajeeb/default.asp?lang=1


    Just a warning: the faint-hearted really shouldn't look at the photos.

    [This message was edited by Haiko on March 23, 2003 at 02:08 PM.]

  3. #3
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    i'm watching cnn and i've heard nothing about the killing of american pows.

    do you have a link to a reliable source about this story?

  4. #4
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    From what I've heard on TV, the POWs are alive. The soldiers were killed in battle.

  5. #5
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    Affiliate,
    Typically soldiers killed in battle are not lined up shot execution style. There were reports that this was the case...Unfortunately situations like this are very fluid and its difficult to tell what is happening with any degree of certainty.

    If you saw the footage this morning (now believed to have been staged) where it was reported that a plane went down into Baghdad...it is against the geneva convention for them to be randomly shooting like what you saw on TV. It is obvious that Iraq has no regard for the geneva convention, then again, we've seen plenty of his disregard for anything.

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  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    With all the talk of US war atrocities, and illegalities, perhaps we should look at Iraq and start a running list. I will begin:

    1). The use of SCUD missiles, banned by the UN, Iraq claiming they had none.

    2). The mistreatment of US POW's the display on TV is banned by the Geneva Convention. During the last war, the Iraqis beat and tortured their prisoners.

    3). The yet to be proved execution of POW's by Iraq. Several networks are reporting this event. As for the question of troops killed in battle, why were they lined up as though shot? Looking very suspicious.

    Developing....

    Fred

    "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." Abraham Lincoln

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DesignerWiz.com Team:
    This is getting worse by the minute. This just proves why we must liberate the people of IRAQ from this regime.

    If the Geneva Convention on humanity of captured soldiers means nothing to IRAQ ... it just proves even more why this regime must be taken out.

    Ray Thomas
    DesignerWiz.com CEO
    Development Resource & Javascript Public Archive Center
    http://www.DesignerWiz.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    So UN means nothing to US..

    You ask iraq to obey Geneva Convention rules while US is just saying "I follow the rules I like others I ignore and just attack" about the UN resolutions?

    Although I wish the safety of the PoWs for either sides I dont think US officers have the right to accuse Iraq for not obeying the rules. It's hypocritical imho.


    -NO WAR-

  8. #8
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So UN means nothing to US..

    You ask iraq to obey Geneva Convention rules while US is just saying "I follow the rules I like others I ignore and just attack" about the UN resolutions?

    Although I wish the safety of the PoWs for either sides I dont think US officers have the right to accuse Iraq for not obeying the rules. It's hypocritical imho. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The United States DOES follow the rules of engagement and humane treatment of prisoners. It is the Iraqi leadership that has PROVEN in its past AND present that they do NOT follow any rules at all.

    The UN is under the influence of countries that are allied with the Iraqi Murderers . . . OF COURSE THE UN IS MOOT~!

    I really CANNOT, for the life of me, understand why ANYONE would align themselves, or speak up for, Saddam or Iraqi leaders that have gone so far as to GAS their own people~! AND, BEFORE the US took action, the Iraqi government went on live television and stated its intentions of attacking the US on our own soil, amongst other threats. THAT IS WHY WE ACTED IMMEDIATELY~!

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    Iucpxleps,

    I am not trying to, or going to use the ABW forum board for a political debate on the policy of the UN and the USA in regards to UN policies and/or lack of the UN being able to back their own set resolutions against IRAQ.
    (After this post)

    I strongly believe the USA tried to get IRAQ to comply with the set UN resolutions 1441 which it failed to do.

    If the UN fails to enforce it's own set resolutions as it has repeatedly levied against IRAQ's leaders .. I agree that the "coalition of the willing" is doing what the UN should have done long ago.

    Take out the leaders and liberate the people to an open democracy and rid the people of the inhumane atrocity repeatedly inflicted and demonstrated against the governments own people.

    That's my view.

    Ray Thomas
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  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    First of all Cyclone Ive got my lesson before not to enter ANY debate with you ever again so thank you. But I just want to say that "I really CANNOT, for the life of me, understand why ANYONE would align themselves, or speak up for, Saddam or Iraqi leaders " is pure BS. nobody is doing such a thing on this board or anywhere on the world afaik with sane minds.
    ---

    DesignerWiz,

    Well I agree with your comments about the "world leaders" other than that I find this war illegal..so it's like a kettle and pot thing..I'll paste a article now in a new post..

    ps. DW thanks for at least debating in a civil way..


    -NO WAR-

  11. #11
    Full Member tmd5's Avatar
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    &gt;This is getting worse by the minute. This just proves why we must liberate the people of IRAQ from this regime.

    Really? I was just watching footage of the Iraqies screaming "Kill them! Kill them!" as they fired shots into the reeds alongside the river in Baghdad in an attempt to flush out and shoot the supposed downed pilots. Are these the kind of people the Americans and their allies are dying for? What a bunch of savages. Until that moment I felt sympathy for the Iraqi people. I do believe I just lost it.

    "Can I sell the sh*t and will the merchant pay?" ~ Leader

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    tmd5

    I'm not comfortable with those scenes but bear in mind that the pilots were just bombing those people 5 mins ago..

    and this is the ugliest side of the war. and a damn good reason for not to go into any war..


    -NO WAR-

  13. #13
    Full Member tmd5's Avatar
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    They were not bombing the people. They were bombing the buildings.

    "Can I sell the sh*t and will the merchant pay?" ~ Leader

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    Hello Tmd5,

    I agree that the film footage looked very barbaric. But, we must not constitute the actions of the government military and police as the reflection of all the people in IRAQ.

    There are millions of people in IRAQ that no nothing more than what the leaders allow them to know by controlled media and make their decisions based solely on what they know by this controlled media.

    IRAQ is extremely rich by it's own natural resources, yet it is one of the poorest countries on the planet.

    Once the people are liberated and life turns much better, the people will see the truth (I hope).

    Ray Thomas
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  15. #15
    Full Member tmd5's Avatar
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    &gt;I agree that the film footage looked very barbaric. But, we must not constitute the actions of the government military and police as the reflection of all the people in IRAQ.

    I doubt it reflects on all Iraqi people but there were civilians there. Hundreds of them, baying for blood. Not just government military and police.

    "Can I sell the sh*t and will the merchant pay?" ~ Leader

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm not comfortable with those scenes but bear in mind that the pilots were just bombing those people 5 mins ago..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>By "those people" are you stating the US pilots went in and bombed Iraci people or military people/establishments?

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tmd5:
    They were not bombing the people. They were bombing the buildings.

    "Can I sell the sh*t and will the merchant pay?" ~ Leader<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sorry my mistake no civilians or innocent ppl have died because of that bombings.. I apologize.


    -NO WAR-

  18. #18
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sorry my mistake no civilians or innocent ppl have died because of that bombings.. I apologize.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So . . . what have you to say about the Iraci people shooting at the pilots yelling "kill, kill"?

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyclone:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm not comfortable with those scenes but bear in mind that the pilots were just bombing those people 5 mins ago..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>By "those people" are you stating the US pilots went in and bombed Iraci people or military people/establishments?

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They are in for military targets of course but there is a reality called collateral damage, and I dont think you can explain it to the civilians there being bombed in prime time every day..


    -NO WAR-

  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Once the people are liberated and life turns much better, the people will see the truth (I hope).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That, I believe, is our only hope for people everywhere to realize. By the way, very nice statements everywhere I've read at ABW . . . thanks . . . I only wish I could state them as well without getting heated.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    These civilians have been told for weeks in advance to move away from the cities. It is not our military fault that the government uses it's own people to hide behind ... some by force.

    We have nothing to explain to anyone on the issues of "collateral damage". Our military has provided fully equipted refugee camps with protection.

    As of this morning, not 1 civilian has taken the military up on these provided camps.

    Ray Thomas
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  22. #22
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> They are in for military targets of course but there is a reality called collateral damage, and I dont think you can explain it to the civilians there being bombed in prime time every day.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If the Iraci military has placed their confines WITHIN civilian confines . . . and the Iraci people don't see a reason to leave . . . at what point do those Iraci civilians cease to be merely civilians and become PART of the Iraci machine? But STILL, we, the US, take the utmost care in not harming these same civilians.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    If you say so..but Baghdad is a city with over 5 million pop..where can you put them away from the cities..

    Anyway I know that "US has nothing to explain to anybody"

    So I'm getting away for a while from ABW..This war better be ended soon for everybody's good.


    -NO WAR-

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Anyway I know that "US has nothing to explain to anybody"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's right, at this point, and in the points preceding the US movements into Irac, we did everything we could to include the world at the UN, but it became clear that the only countries withholding were, and are, the countries that have vested capital interests with the Saddam regime. The United States was bombed where thousands were killed in terrorist acts. When the Iraci government made it plain that they intend to use the WMD aimed specifically at the people of the US, then it became necessary to override the withholding countries in alignment with the Iraci regime and go into Irac immediately . . . and we have been EXPLAINING this ever since.

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room~!

  25. #25
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    OK, some people really need to think twice before posting something.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> tmd5 said:
    They were not bombing the people. They were bombing the buildings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I think people live in buildings.
    Btw, I saw images of the distruction in Baghdad, were a residential area was hit, and 5 building were destroyed. It was reported by a western journalist (live), and he appeared very distressed while commenting the images. Live: http://www1.sky.com/sky_asx/sport_ne...tart-news.html


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> DesignerWiz.com Team said:
    IRAQ is extremely rich by it's own natural resources, yet it is one of the poorest countries on the planet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Iraq was an extremely rich country prior to the first Gulf war, and was one of the most developed Arab nations. The sanctions that were imposed on the country following the war (more than 10 years ago), have made its people one of the poorest in the world.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Cyclone said:
    So . . . what have you to say about the Iraci people shooting at the pilots yelling "kill, kill"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Please stop for a second, and try to understand these people. They spend days and nights in shelters fearing for their lives because of the bombs that could fall on them any second. Follow their logic:
    - A pilot flies a plane
    - A plane drops a bomb
    - A bomb kills people
    deduction: A pilot is killing people.
    With all the accumulated anger, and it's not difficult to conclude what their reaction would be if they had access to the pilot.

    Remember what happened after 9/11? Remember how many arabs in the US were targeted by angry people? It's a natural reaction; after some time many of those would be ashamed of their previous actions.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Cyclone said:
    If the Iraci military has placed their confines WITHIN civilian confines . . . and the Iraci people don't see a reason to leave . . . at what point do those Iraci civilians cease to be merely civilians and become PART of the Iraci machine? But STILL, we, the US, take the utmost care in not harming these same civilians. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Baghdad has a population of 5M. There's nothing but desert around it. Please tell me where do you expect 5M to go to? They don't have a second home. An average Iraqi earns 2-5USD/month. What do you expect him to do with that money? Buy an air ticket to a better place?

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