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  1. #1
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    Is it appropriate...
    If in ones travels one notices that a former converting SAS merchant now has a 0 seven day epc and thirty day epc. (Well zeros across the board) Is it appropriate to post that fact here?
    Expert who says Moo

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  2. #2
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    Yeah. Might be others that have that merchant up or know something.

  3. #3
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    OK, if you say its appropriate then
    Cheap Pet Store, Inc. ID: 10674

    7 day EPC 0.00
    30 day EPC 0.00

    7 Day Sales 0.00
    30 Day Sales 0.00

    As far as I can tell, they haven't made a sale of any kind for at least 45 days.

    Pity they was selling nicely for me at one time ;-(

    BTW
    Between the first post and this post I emailed brian to look into it. But it is thanksgiving and he deserves the weekend off to be with his family so I don't expect him to do anything until Monday.

    I should have noticed a while back, but when you are making sales from lots of merchants, I guess it is easy to not notice one just stopped selling.
    Expert who says Moo

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  4. #4
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    "As far as I can tell, they haven't made a sale of any kind for at least 45 days."

    Even longer, almost 3 months:

    Last Commissionable Transaction through Affiliate: 08/26/2007 07:39.40 PM

  5. #5
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I dont think it is right for you to be outing merchants in this form. Like the problems we had with that other so called list what if the merchant comes back and performs well this information will always be in an online thread.

    Plus I dont want to see a million threads everyday here at abw with a merchant not performing on any network.
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  6. #6
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Why not out them.

    They don't mind screwing over affiliates and we need to know who they are.

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  7. #7
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Well for starters and I don't mean this in a bad way but, You are all my competetion and why would I believe this information in the first place. Am I suppose to not use the so called merchant because someone elses information. I trust Oranges but what about the next guy that post this information.

    This is also information that requires you to log into your sas account. I don't think that you should be allowed this information to share with others on a public forum. The site may have changed domains or something like that.

    What is the database at sas is wrong (it could happen) and a merchant is outed for no reason and affiliates drop from his/her program for no reason. I could go on with about another 20 reasons but its time for me to work on my sites
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  8. #8
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    "You are all my competetion and why would I believe this information in the first place."

    You answered that shortly after. You can login and check to verify. And we post this kind of thing for the same reasons we have with all sorts of merchants and networks over the years. To compare notes, make others aware etc. And with that info, people can make their own decisions.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    I agree that sometimes merchants are outed too quickly and that this can cause needless damage to their reputations. Having said that, if a merchant fails to address an affiliates concerns in a reasonable manner, a public discussion may be in order. (I have no clue as to whether any attempts to communicate with this merchant were made)

    Quote Originally Posted by nyfalcon
    Well for starters and I don't mean this in a bad way but, You are all my competetion and why would I believe this information in the first place. Am I suppose to not use the so called merchant because someone elses information. I trust Oranges but what about the next guy that post this information.
    One could say the same for many, many posts on ABW, but this was backed up by stats that can be confirmed by anyone who log on at SaS and oranges did state that he used to make sales with them. Doesn't sound too suspicious to me.
    We did not change as we grew older; we just became more clearly ourselves.
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  10. #10
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    Because of the other list is why I posted the question first. I personally wouldn't post if I wasn't an affiliate of the merchant and I hadn't been making a 'bunch' of sales before.

    Also, before posting here, I checked to see if there was a post for a test sale tracking or not. (No one had done a test sale recently.)

    Thank you of your faith in me Falcon :-) I just wanted people to know, because I would have liked it if someone noticed last month. Now I have to decide how to handle all my product links to this merchant.

    What I am personally hoping, is its an honest mistake, that the tracking will be fixed and that someone at the company will have the morals to go back over all sales and find out which are affiliate sales and pay back commissions. I know that is alot to ask for, but I said it was a hope.
    Expert who says Moo

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  11. #11
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    I think it's helpful to share this type of information.

    I always compare my experiences to others prior to taking actions or commenting, as I would think most others would do. There is also a difference in discussing a single merchant versus publishing an entire list.

    Quite frankly it's posts like this, that I tune in for several times a day.

  12. #12
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    What if the merchant had a sale 10 minutes ago and it tracked fine. Lets take it one step further lets say it was Oranges site also that got the sale. All would be fine except the merchant would have a hard time getting anyone to join their affiliate program because this post would be in the search engine results. I know before I join a program I search for the merchant in affiliate forums. I am not sticking up for this merchant I just want to post possible things that could happen.

    Maybe the merchant has a tracking issue that he is not aware of. This merchant is probably not the case since the dates are so long but what if it was only 2 days? Do we just hurt that merchant forever? Where do you draw the line.

    If you were to log into abw and see 25 post like "no sales on merchant xyz for 1 day" this whole forum would look like the cancel thread.

    You could also have other affiliate managers for similiar programs logging in everyday telling affiliates that merchant xyz must be offline because we are selling like crazy on our program. It could happen. I can think of at least 20 more reasons why affiliate merchants should not be outed like this.
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  13. #13
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    "What if the merchant had a sale 10 minutes ago and it tracked fine."

    Then people can see that when they check, last transaction posted.... it'll be in the stats.

    "All would be fine except the merchant would have a hard time getting anyone to join their affiliate program because this post would be in the search engine results. "

    Hasn't had a sale in 3 months. They have someone in their program, Oranges who used to get sales. He's wanting to get sales again I'm sure.

    "Maybe the merchant has a tracking issue that he is not aware of."

    That's why posts like these are good. Maybe there are affiliates who have this merchant up and are not aware there haven't been sales in 3 months or someone who is used to getting sales, isn't getting them anymore.

    "Do we just hurt that merchant forever?"

    What about affiliates? Maybe there is a problem, maybe there isn't.

    "If you were to log into abw and see 25 post like "no sales on merchant xyz for 1 day" this whole forum would look like the cancel thread."

    A. There isn't that amount now.
    B. This isn't one day.
    C. I don't expect threads for 1 off day like that. Don't see it now, have no reason to expect them in the future.

    "I can think of at least 20 more reasons why affiliate merchants should not be outed like this."

    I can think or more why we should talk about it. Oranges used to get sales, now none (according to SAS in 3 months).

    Since when is it a bad thing that affiliates post about merchants that could be having problems? I post about them if I feel there is a problem and appreciate when others do because there is a chance I have that merchant myself. I don't have this particular merchant but it got me to check the few other pet related merchants I have at SAS and they all have some EPC and are online. I think you would be in the minority on this one if you don't want affiliates to post about things like this.

    A bit of history about ABW. Besides CJ closing their forums up, another reason ABW started up was because Haiko was having troubles with a merchant and tracking and CJ wouldn't admit there was a problem. That's why this forum is here to talk about stuff.

    If there is a problem somewhere, I think now it can be looked into and get it fixed. Maybe there isn't a problem.

    But talking about issues and comparing notes is a good thing.

    If threads like this upset anybody, don't click on them.

  14. #14
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust
    ..."Maybe the merchant has a tracking issue that he is not aware of."

    That's why posts like these are good. Maybe there are affiliates who have this merchant up and are not aware there haven't been sales in 3 months or someone who is used to getting sales, isn't getting them anymore.

    "Do we just hurt that merchant forever?"

    What about affiliates? Maybe there is a problem, maybe there isn't.
    ...

    Since when is it a bad thing that affiliates post about merchants that could be having problems? I post about them if I feel there is a problem and appreciate when others do because there is a chance I have that merchant myself. I don't have this particular merchant but it got me to check the few other pet related merchants I have at SAS and they all have some EPC and are online. I think you would be in the minority on this one if you don't want affiliates to post about things like this.

    A bit of history about ABW. Besides CJ closing their forums up, another reason ABW started up was because Haiko was having troubles with a merchant and tracking and CJ wouldn't admit there was a problem. That's why this forum is here to talk about stuff.
    ....

    But talking about issues and comparing notes is a good thing.
    Thanks for the history lesson, that's interesting to know.

    For my 2¢, this type of post is exactly the type of info that we want to see here; it lets us know of a potential problem that we can then investigate for ourselves. That long a period with no reported sales is a red flag and if the merchant is in that situation, whether it be for tracking issues or just the inability to convert a sale, their affiliates and potential affiliates are entitled to that information. It also will provide feedbakc to the merchant, who will be receiving a) inquiries from many affiliates, and/or) b) see a decrease in affiliate activity it can then check into, if the merchant still cares.

    p.s. Trust - you posted about Thursday games but didn't get your picks in.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  15. #15
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I am sure I am in the minority on this but if any of the programs that I am in have a problem I contact that merchant. I don't go running to any affiliate forum with a henny penny message that will not do me any good at all.
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador kaizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyfalcon
    I am sure I am in the minority on this but if any of the programs that I am in have a problem I contact that merchant. I don't go running to any affiliate forum with a henny penny message that will not do me any good at all.
    Do you know that oranges didn't contact the merchant? He may or may not have... you can't determine that from his post.

    Henny penny? Kind of dramatic, don't you think? I didn't see where he said the sky was falling.... he simply was asking about a merchant who wasn't reporting any sales through the affiliate channel, when he had been having some success with them previously.
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  17. #17
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    It would be nice to think some one has contacted the merchant. Perhaps this company has no AM in house, perhaps the tracking code as been inadvertently removed by an over zealous programmer. I for one would certainly appreciate getting an email that says "Hey my sales are dead! Please check!".

    Perhaps they have even removed the code and in effect shut down their program. In which case that'd be info everyone needs to know, only the merchant can say for sure.

    It makes sense to share info and get feedback on issues, but asking the merchant what is going on should be one of the first steps. After all, when Brian is mailed, the next thing he does is reach out to the merchant. Why add the extra step?

    Cheers

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  18. #18
    Network Rep & ABW Ambassador Carolyn - ShareASale's Avatar
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    Before this gets out of hand...I'll give the merchant a call tomorrow...okay?

  19. #19
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    I guess, it was a knee jerk reaction to post here. What happened is I was working late and realized that I couldn't remember the last time I got a sale from that merchant. So I checked and was shocked. I knew I wouldn't get an answer from the merchant anytime soon, it being thanksgiving eve and all. So I went to ABW and looked if there was a recent test purchase. The I went to post the no sales thing.

    I thought again that it might not be appropriate to post, i wasn't thinking oif the reasons, I just wanted to make sure if I should post of now...So I started this thread. Then I went back to SAS and was going to contact the merchant, changed my mind and decided to contact Brian instead. By the time that was done, Trust (a moderator not a member with an opinion) had posted that I should post it and so I did.

    I see what chris says, and if it was only my sales that was dead I wouldn't have posted it here. But in this case, this former producing merchant hadn't made a commissionable sale to anyone for over a month. I do hope this is a programming glitch and that the merchant will check their stats (if possible) and reimburse everyone for their lost commissions over the last 3 months.
    Expert who says Moo

    a.k.a. OJMOO

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  20. #20
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    It is not only appropriate, but it's NECESSARY particularly at this time of the year. People will be working their butts off night and day for the next few weeks getting ready for holiday shopping, especially over this long holiday weekend.

    Why should people waste their precious time sending traffic to a merchant who is about as DEAD as it gets:

    http://www.cheappetstore.com/shopping_cart.php

    Due to high order volume, we are not currently accepting any orders. Please use one of our preferred merchants.
    Affiliate links. And checking further: COMING SOON!

    Visit one of their preferred merchants while they're adding the product to their price comparison database

    http://www.cheappetstore.com/images/...comingsoon.jpg



    Maybe they were a merchant (white label drop-shipper) at one time, but then they became nothing more than affiliates, and sneaky, dishonest ones at that, duping innocent folks out of their hard-earned traffic. Nice, huh?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #21
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Wow.

    This merchant does not deserve the benefit of the doubt from anyone. Contacting them first would have been a waste of time. Affiliates deserve to have all of this info posted here. Period.

    Good work, webworker!

    I sort of assumed someone had looked at their site many posts ago.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
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  22. #22
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    I agree the merchant is bad I just don't agree on the process
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  23. #23
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Tons of different things to address here...

    First, let me point out that there is a HUGE difference between posting about an experience with one particular merchant and posting an inaccurate, automatically generated list of suspect merchants.

    I think it's most appropriate to contact the merchant directly first. Most of these types of things can and should be handled privately.

    The next step (if you aren't satisfied after contacting the merchant) should be to contact the network.

    I would never suggest "outing" a merchant just because you used to have sales and haven't had any lately. DO A TEST TRANSACTION. If that doesn't track, you at least have something to bring to the merchant.

    There are many reasons for sales to dry up other than a "tracking problem". Perhaps your traffic has changed. Perhaps you have a broken link. Perhaps the landing page is broken. Perhaps the product you're promoting is out of stock. Perhaps the coupon you're promoting has expired. Perhaps you're doing PPC and have some new competition that is offering something better. Always check everything else before assuming a tracking problem. And then do a test order to confirm.

    Just because a merchant on SAS doesn't show a sale in several weeks (or even months), don't assume it's a problem with the merchant. Many merchants are untapped oil wells with few if any affiliates effectively promoting them. Once you find an effective way to promote one of those merchants, you can do very well. I've worked with several merchants there who didn't have any sale for weeks or months before I started promoting them, where I now generate dozens of sales per day.
    Last edited by MichaelColey; November 22nd, 2007 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Fix Broken Formatting
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  24. #24
    Super Dawg Member Phil Kaufman aka AffiliateHound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    ...DO A TEST TRANSACTION...
    Couldn't have - they're
    ...not currently accepting any orders.
    Since June 10, 2012 a vegan aarf but still writing the Hound Dawg Sports Blog
    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden;
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  25. #25
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    "I would never suggest outing" a merchant just because you used to have sales and haven't had any lately. "

    Nothing wrong with that. Call it outing, call it asking how others are doing, with the merchant. If you've had sales with a merchant and then you're not having any for some reason, you should post. Again to compare notes. Maybe others are getting sales, then the problem is usually on the affiliates end. And with this one, with what Webworker posted - http://www.cheappetstore.com/shopping_cart.php That's just ridiculous.

    It's great you posted about it, so anybody with links up might want to decide if they want to work with a merchant like that. Because of this thread, look what we discovered.

    So keep posting about these type of merchants, it's a pro-affiliate move and don't worry about what other people think.

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